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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 2:25 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:
On 1/5/2024 at 2:23 PM, Heronext said:

Given a CGC slab cert # sold in the past, does anyone know a way to find the eBay ID that purchased that listing?  This is related to uncovering other possibly related IDs (someone I sold to).  Feel free to PM me if you know a method.

@comicwiz

I don't konw of a way if it's a purchase. Just if it's a cert tied to a sale to a seller.

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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 1:34 PM, 360flip said:

Definitely got swapped out. Custom label and different book in current slab (most noticeable at the bottom of book). https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4040878007/

appreciated!

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EastEnd1

EastEnd1

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2024 at 2:21 PM, LordRahl said:

How would CGC know whether or not he sold swapped books if they didn't first go to CGC for reholder?

They wouldn't... but CGC may now know whether the books sent in for re-holdering had noticeable defects on the holders or not.  And if they didn't, then that makes the direct sale scenario more plausible, and PERHAPS likely.  No one "in the know" has spoken yet about the condition of the holders.  It would be helpful for CGC to make a statement about it either way, assuming they know of course.  I fear though that they may never tell us outright because of litigation concerns. 

Edited by EastEnd1
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WolverineX

WolverineX

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 2:13 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Unless the scammer is well known in the collecting community, does it really matter what their name is?

Of course it does.  If he does all these scams online, surely he does it in person at conventions too.  

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 2:27 PM, LordRahl said:

You are probably correct. Which is part of the reason I don't think there are thousands of fraudulent books out there as some on this thread have stated. The more there are, the higher the chance of getting caught.

Do you think the list is all inclusive, or could there be more ?

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 2:39 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:
On 1/5/2024 at 2:27 PM, LordRahl said:

You are probably correct. Which is part of the reason I don't think there are thousands of fraudulent books out there as some on this thread have stated. The more there are, the higher the chance of getting caught.

Do you think the list is all inclusive, or could there be more ?

I'm curious to hear what you are basing this on.

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LordRahl

LordRahl

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 11:35 AM, EastEnd1 said:

They wouldn't... but CGC may now know whether the books sent in for re-holdering had noticeable defects on the holders or not.  And if they didn't, then that makes the direct sale scenario more plausible, and perhaps likely.  No one "in the know" has spoken yet about the condition of the holders.  It would be helpful for CGC to make a statement about it either way, assuming they know of course.  I fear though that they may never tell us outright because of litigation concerns. 

You are correct in that I doubt CGC will make a statement on that. In my experience, and I've cracked a lot of books, it's somewhat dependent on the individual holder itself. Especially with the 1st gen holders. Some are extremely easy to open and leave no evidence of it (or very little if you are really looking) and others not so much. While I basically just completely destroy the current gen of slab when I break into them, I suspect the same will be true if using the methods described on youtube. Some will show little to no evidence and others will be obvious. 

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LordRahl

LordRahl

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 11:39 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Do you think the list is all inclusive, or could there be more ?

I think there could be more. But I don't think it's in the multiple thousands

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LordRahl

LordRahl

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 11:40 AM, comicwiz said:

I'm curious to hear what you are basing this on.

Easy. A lot of these books are prime candidates for CPR. We all know CPR happens a lot. If there were thousands, more would have come to light by now. I mean take IH 181, that book is thousands of dollars for a .2 bump. I bet that is a top 3 CPR book.

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wiparker824

wiparker824

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 12:23 PM, Heronext said:

Given a CGC slab cert # sold in the past, does anyone know a way to find the eBay ID that purchased that listing?  This is related to uncovering other possibly related IDs (someone I sold to).  Feel free to PM me if you know a method.

If you are the seller you can see the id’s who you sold to, even if they’re old they are in an email that gets sent to you unless you delete your email. If you aren’t the seller eBay anonymizes and hides everything now. 

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2024 at 2:20 PM, LordRahl said:

While not impossible, it would be VERY difficult to prove he never sold swapped books without first going to CGC. Easy enough to prove he did if one or more are found but not the other way around. 

Agreed, which is why I think that everything the perpetrator offers for sale or has offered for sale in the past should be regraded.  The problem is far beyond just a few hundred comics the perp had reholdered.

I'd feel differently if it could be established that when the perp opens a slab and switches out the book and inside holder there is a small bit of damage to either one or more edges of the outer case or the re-connected posts.  Then the hobby could tell from careful inspection of the holder rather than needing the book to be regraded to discern if tampering has been involved.

 

Edited by namisgr
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pdags

pdags

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 2:48 PM, namisgr said:

Agreed, which is why I think that everything the perpetrator offers for sale or has offered for sale in the past should be regraded.

Yes, every book that went through Briva3's hands needs to be inspected.  The community needs to know if he found a way to swap books without the need for a re-holder.  

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 2:48 PM, namisgr said:

Agreed, which is why I think that everything the perpetrator offers for sale or has offered for sale in the past should be regraded.

That would be quite the list.

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shadroch

shadroch

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 12:27 PM, LordRahl said:

You are probably correct. Which is part of the reason I don't think there are thousands of fraudulent books out there as some on this thread have stated. The more there are, the higher the chance of getting caught.

I've no idea how many are out there, but I'd bet a quarter it is far more than 350.  I'm sitting out the Prime auction and refocusing my purchasing for the near future.

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 2:52 PM, pdags said:

Yes, every book that went through Briva3's hands needs to be inspected.  The community needs to know if he found a way to swap books without the need for a re-holder.  

Were he swapping books without reholdering them, I would think someone would have noticed the discrepancy between the book they received and the scan of the book on the CGC database.

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2024 at 2:56 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Were he swapping books without reholdering them, I would think someone would have noticed the discrepancy between the book they received and the scan of the book on the CGC database.

That would be useful for the small proportion of slabbed books that have been imaged and uploaded into their database.  Unfortunately, rather than doing this archiving from the time they opened, it's been only a very recent undertaking.

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