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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

mrd160

mrd160

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 7:22 PM, magoo74 said:

I for one will not be sending any of the books on this list…. But I assure you this will not be dropped.

👍🏾

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bc

bc

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 7:16 PM, mrd160 said:

It is MY book, I have it in hand and am not 100% sure. 

This might have been already asked, but have you done detailed measurements of the book to compare it to other books of the same era?

I understand that during that period, there were often minor discrepancies in the publishing process. But at least it may provide some better idea of the books integrity.

-bc

 

 

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EastEnd1

EastEnd1

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 7:16 PM, mrd160 said:

It is MY book, I have it in hand and am not 100% sure. 

I have no doubts.  You should get it checked out for certainty.  As I've been saying for a while now, every book the scammer touched should be checked out, especially when you've paid as much money as you have. We just don't know enough yet. 

But I agree with @MasterChief that the youtuber's analysis was faulty... and his conclusion with regard to trimming should have been presented as speculative, as opposed to groundbreaking and definitive.    

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mrd160

mrd160

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Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2024 at 7:36 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I have no doubts.  You should get it checked out for certainty.  As I've been saying for a while now, every book the scammer touched should be checked out, especially when you've paid as much money as you have. We just don't know enough yet. 

But I agree with @MasterChief that the youtuber's analysis was faulty... and his conclusion with regard to trimming should have been presented as speculative, as opposed to groundbreaking and definitive.    

I am a fan of thoro…he was stating his opinion and a lot of people agreed with him. I know him irl….good dude. He’s not the only person that looked at the book, some of which in person and believed with some certainty that the book was trimmed. What adds to this is the fact that the person selling the book was certainly involved in some shenanigans. If he’s going to swap cases it’s not unreasonable to think he would do other things as well. Extra scrutiny is warranted. Btw, this is why I avoid all social media/online like the plague. Lol

Edited by mrd160
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EastEnd1

EastEnd1

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 7:42 PM, mrd160 said:

I am a fan of thoro…he was stating his opinion and a lot of people agreed with him. I know him irl….good dude. He’s not the only person that looked at the book, some of which in person and believed with some certainty that the book was trimmed. What adds to this is the fact that the person selling the book was certainly involved in some shenanigans. If he’s going to swap cases it’s not unreasonable to think he would do other things as well. Btw, this is why I avoid all social media/online like the plague. Lol

I understand... this is also why I don't watch or follow any influencers.  I've been collecting since 1972... I've earned the right to be my own influencer now. (thumbsu

Definitely let us know how it goes with CGC (if you're able).

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DC#

DC#

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Posted

A short distraction if I may - saw this today from PSA and thought it fascinating given this conversation.    That is a lot of counterfeiting happening on a single card in a single year.     No telling how many raw counterfeits are still out there being sold......or being sent to other grading companies on the chance they won't be caught.    

 

Unknown.thumb.jpeg.1d813202977d2bc4c43968a76488cd32.jpeg

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 8:11 PM, DC# said:

A short distraction if I may - saw this today from PSA and thought it fascinating given this conversation.    That is a lot of counterfeiting happening on a single card in a single year.     No telling how many raw counterfeits are still out there being sold......or being sent to other grading companies on the chance they won't be caught.    

 

Unknown.thumb.jpeg.1d813202977d2bc4c43968a76488cd32.jpeg

PSA also still collect 5000 smackeroos for telling your raw Jordan is fake. Assuming you chose the 5K service level.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 8:33 PM, Silver Surfer said:

Note to self, never buy a graded card, ever. 

Hush... I am pleased with the few I own. 

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2024 at 8:33 PM, Silver Surfer said:

Note to self, never buy a graded card, ever. 

on the PSA forums it's vice-versa for comics :)

Scary to to think how much larger the detection failure rates are for Video Games, VHS Tapes, etc

Edited by MAR1979
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CGC Mike

CGC Mike

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  • Administrator
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 6:13 PM, comicwiz said:
On 1/7/2024 at 5:30 PM, sledgehammer said:

Hang on a second Joe.

There's breaking news.

Dupcak is posting in this very thread.

There's a certain posting style. It's unmistakeable. 

He should be careful that the mod doesn't find out who.  Only 1 id per person is allowed.  If 2 are discovered, they may both have to disappear.  hm

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 8:46 PM, CGC Mike said:

He should be careful that the mod doesn't find out who.  Only 1 id per person is allowed.  If 2 are discovered, they may both have to disappear.  hm

Soooo

That "might" imply:

  1. Moderation is aware that Dupcak is on the CGC Boards under a user id different from the one he had years ago
  2. Moderation is aware that the ID that they "might" be aware of has not currently posted in this thread.

hm

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2024 at 8:11 PM, DC# said:

A short distraction if I may - saw this today from PSA and thought it fascinating given this conversation.    That is a lot of counterfeiting happening on a single card in a single year.     No telling how many raw counterfeits are still out there being sold......or being sent to other grading companies on the chance they won't be caught.    

 

Unknown.thumb.jpeg.1d813202977d2bc4c43968a76488cd32.jpeg

This is contextually very different than what is occurring here. While those stats may be a crafty way for PSA to boost their services, the truth is that "fake" Jordan RC's have been floating around for as long as I can remember. And I was very fortunate to have been able to buy an untampered box from a cash n' carry store near St. Clair and Caledonia (for any Toronto boardies). That was a pretty big accomplishment in and of itself. In those days, it was already well known people were breaking cases and figuring out sequencing for his RC, and then resealing the wax boxes. That's an entirely different rabbit hole, but a closer relative to what's happening here.

The identification sites have been fairly good at keeping up with the ones made in the last 30 years, they haven't been as good in more recent years, but there are still ways the original Fleer RC can be identified. 

Rather, the more contextually appropiate conversation is what is referred to as "tampered flips." It doesn't matter in those instances what PSA catches, these are slabs floating around with swapped counterfeits. The population of counterfeits for Jordan RC's is ridiculousy high, but if you have enough experience, there's no way they can ever fool a seasoned set of eyes. The issue however is that they are being seen at shows, the slabs are right, but what's inside isn't. Some who may not know this is going on could get stung. That's more of a genie out of the bottle situation for PSA unfortunately, but closer to what's CGC has already described as the Holder Tampering Incident.

Edited by comicwiz
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mosconi

mosconi

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 3:13 PM, topcat54 said:

:baiting:I think she did 

   On 1/7/2024 at 3:18 PM, mosconi said:

The JIM #83 was the book that made me stop in my tracks.  Very suspect.

As far as Dupcak, if you look at his auction raw books, almost every one of them has the appearance of trimming.  On some of the auctions he used to disclose the trimming in the description, and on others he chose not to disclose.  He is an individual of many deceptive skills and extremely knowledgeable in all their practices.  He was quite the wealth of information when he used to post on these forums...

He posting on this very thread. 

Hope you're not referring to me as being Dupcak.  I've been on these boards for nearly 20 years and recall most of the scandals of the early days.  Ewert actually caused me to leave the hobby for nearly 8 years.  Bought and sold to many boardies over the years and my personal information is known to quite a number of people on this forum.  And fyi, Dupcak was outed as JJJ in a previously locked thread a few years back, so not unbelievable that he's back in some form. 

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