ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[WernerVonDoom]

On 2/10/2024 at 4:57 AM, comicwiz said:

Your book was listed twice by seller zaneglor, if any tampering occurred, it would have been prior to the first time it appeared in Dec 2019. 

Fantastic Four (1961) #2 CGC 7.5

1. Seller: zaneglor Cert: 1393412006 [12/3/2019] - $5,655

2. Seller: zaneglor Cert: 1393412006 [2/5/2020] - $5,500

 

I think the original grade date was in 2019. I should have saved a screenshot. 

[comeaux]

Hopefully this link should work, it’s the complete version of the CGC lawsuit vs ZANELLO & RIVA 

CGC vs ZANELLO & RIVA

[Dark Knight]

This is one of a few cases where I'd love to be a jury for this lawsuit

[shadroch]

The CGC Marks.

Someone needs to make the softball shirts.

[sledgehammer]

What a submission. 

None of them on the list.

October 4, 2023

5 copies of ASM 300. Each one 9.8

This one of them goes up for auction on comiclink on 2/15.

4336086005

 

 

Here's a submission. Neither book has a custom label  grade date  11/28/2023.

Auction starts for 001 on comiclink, Thursday.

ASM 252  9.8 direct. On the list

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4357311002/

ASM 252  9.8 newsstand. Not on the list

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4357311001/

When are they going to explain WHY??

 

 

[paqart]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:29 PM, sledgehammer said:

What a submission. 

None of them on the list.

October 4, 2023

5 copies of ASM 300. Each one 9.8

This one of them goes up for auction on comiclink on 2/15.

4336086005

 

 

Here's a submission. Neither book has a custom label  grade date  11/28/2023.

Auction starts for 001 on comiclink, Thursday.

ASM 252  9.8 direct. On the list

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4357311002/

ASM 252  9.8 newsstand. Not on the list

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4357311001/

When are they going to explain WHY??

 

 

Seems to me that without an explanation, no one should bid on these. My policy: assume they are counterfeit until proven otherwise.

[Buzzetta]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:02 PM, paqart said:

Seems to me that without an explanation, no one should bid on these. My policy: assume they are counterfeit until proven otherwise.

Or contact Comiclink and let them know you were interested in bidding on them but explain why you cannot and link them to these posts.   Comiclink has more clout then most users here. 

[comeaux]

On 2/10/2024 at 5:29 PM, sledgehammer said:

What a submission. 

None of them on the list.

October 4, 2023

5 copies of ASM 300. Each one 9.8

This one of them goes up for auction on comiclink on 2/15.

4336086005

 

 

Here's a submission. Neither book has a custom label  grade date  11/28/2023.

Auction starts for 001 on comiclink, Thursday.

ASM 252  9.8 direct. On the list

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4357311002/

ASM 252  9.8 newsstand. Not on the list

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4357311001/

When are they going to explain WHY??

 

 

Not sure why my original post disappeared 

Anyway this is another display of great detective work!

Between you, Comicwiz and a few other boardies … yall have done 90% of the investigation while Inspector Clousseau & Colonel Mustard at CGC are stumbling & bungling, smokings bags of dried turds in the library with a candlestick while the serious research is being done here.

CGC couldn’t catch a few burger filippers & Dominos drivers from bilking them for millions, how are they gonna investigate this chitshow 

CGC is done answering anything, they want this debacle to go away quickly with as little attention as possible. That’s why they only made the statement about fraud on these boards, not on other social media that is broadcast worldwide. 

The defendants are likely smarter than CGC so they will drag this on for years or it’s more likely that CGC quietly settles with a dismissal with terms sealed from public. 
 

 

Edited February 11 by comeaux

[brute_nm]

On 2/10/2024 at 4:29 PM, sledgehammer said:

What a submission. 

None of them on the list.

October 4, 2023

5 copies of ASM 300. Each one 9.8

This one of them goes up for auction on comiclink on 2/15.

4336086005

 

 

Here's a submission. Neither book has a custom label  grade date  11/28/2023.

Auction starts for 001 on comiclink, Thursday.

ASM 252  9.8 direct. On the list

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4357311002/

ASM 252  9.8 newsstand. Not on the list

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4357311001/

When are they going to explain WHY??

 

 

@COMICLINK how can y'all guarantee authenticity of these slabs given a) they were submitted by a known scammer, b) they were in the same submission as other suspected fraudulent books, and c) they have not been sent back to CGC for verification

Edited February 11 by brute_nm

[awakeintheashes]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:53 PM, brute_nm said:

@COMICLINK how can y'all guarantee authenticity of these slabs given a) they were submitted by a known scammer, b) they were in the same submission as other suspected fraudulent books, and c) they have not been sent back to CGC for verification

These aren’t the same books CL said they looked over and told CGC that nothing looked wrong, are they?

[sledgehammer]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:14 PM, awakeintheashes said:

These aren’t the same books CL said they looked over and told CGC that nothing looked wrong, are they?

it shouldn't be insinuated, that Josh has ever said anything about looking over any comic books, that were not on the initial list of 350.

he definitely hasn't.

Edited February 11 by sledgehammer

[awakeintheashes]

On 2/10/2024 at 8:36 PM, sledgehammer said:

it shouldn't be insinuated, that Josh has ever said anything about looking over any comic books, that were not on the initial list of 350.

he definitely hasn't.

I thought he posted something about one or two of the books that were on the list. I’ll have to look back. 

Edit: I misread your original post and thought at least one of those books was on the original list 

Edited February 11 by awakeintheashes

[sledgehammer]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:40 PM, awakeintheashes said:

I thought he posted something about one or two of the books that were on the list. I’ll have to look back. 

he did post about one or two books that were on the list. He hasn't said anything about the potentially 2000 books, that there is plenty of reason to be suspicious about, that weren't on the list.

[sledgehammer]

six weeks ago, Josh said that the list was only going to slowly dissipate. He was extremely confident about that. I noted to him, that there are plenty of us that didn't feel that way.

Edited February 11 by sledgehammer

[awakeintheashes]

On 1/3/2024 at 8:32 PM, COMICLINK said:

3) We have developed methods to ensure that there will be no auction listings or exchange postings with these cert numbers going forward, unless cleared by CGC.  No one should worry about bidding in the auction starting January 11th. This is already in "Beta".  None of these books will be in in the upcoming auction once it goes live unless cleared, or any other upcoming auctions.  We will inform any submitters of the issue.

4) I looked at some of the higher end books and found a bunch on the CGC list that are fine. I noticed we sold them multiple times and compared images, which match. 

These include the JIM 83 8.0 and 7.0 and some other Silver Age keys. 

I sent the list, with images to CGC as well for confirmation, received it, and they should be removed from the list.

This is what was posted about the 1/11 books. Hopefully, with the upcoming auction, there is nothing to worry about. 

[comeaux]

I’m not an attorney but from my Pro Se experience I would list these below as a few Affirmative Defenses along with about 20 others if I was a defendant in this case. CGC basically allowed this to happen under THEIR watch. CGC is supposed to be the EXPERTS. 

 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 1

Other than the fact that DEFENDANT resides in the State of New York, this answering DEFENDANT expressly denies each and every allegation therein contained save and except that this answering DEFENDANT recalls making perfectly legal sales and purchases of PLAINTIFFS graded comics over the internet although this answering  DEFENDANT expressly asserts that the information alleged is insufficient as to allow this answering DEFENDANT to form a belief as to any specific transaction that is referenced and on that basis denies the same and expressly denies that any transaction or submission to PLAINTIFF heretofore made by DEFENDANT had any association to illegal acts or manipulating PLAINTIFF graded comics. 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 2

This answering DEFENDANT alleges that any injury, which DEFENDANT denies, occurred solely as a result of PLAINTIFFS negligence and procrastination to properly verify that the plastic protective case which encapsulates PLAINTIFFS graded comic book is tamper resistant as conveyed in PLAINTIFFS guarantee wherein said negligence and procrastination functions as a complete impediment to any proposed recovery on behalf of PLAINTIFF. This Affirmative Defense is in no way an admission of any illegal acts asserted by PLAINTIFF. 

 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 3

This answering DEFENDANT alleges that PLAINTIFFS action is barred by the equitable doctrines of laches and unclean hands on part of PLAINTIFF. 

 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 4

This answering DEFENDANT alleges that PLAINTIFFS attorney lacks evidence with which to prosecute any claims made hereunder and that PLAINTIFFS attorney was aware of this fact at moment PLAINTIFFS attorney brought complaint and that the known lack of merit of these claims, based upon lack of specific evidence necessary to prove these claims, should subject PLAINTIFFS attorney to sanctions and penalties under FRCP Rule 11. 

 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 5

This answering DEFENDANT alleges that any injury, which DEFENDANT denies, occurred solely as a result of PLAINTIFFS negligent service quality and incompetence related to the oversight of PLAINTIFFS comic book grading, encapsulation and reholder processes and procedures. DEFENDANT alleges that PLAINTIFF employed management and other personnel severely lacking the experience required to properly grade, encapsulate & reholder comic books which has been substantiated by comic book collectors receiving graded, encapsulated and reholdered comic books that have incorrectly positioned labels, incorrectly documented labels, comic books encapsulated upside down, comic books encapsulated backwards, comic books damaged during encapsulation, comic books delivered in cracked/broken slabs. This Affirmative Defense is in no way an admission of any illegal acts asserted by PLAINTIFF. 

[valiantman]

On 2/10/2024 at 8:38 PM, comeaux said:

I’m not an attorney but from my Pro Se experience I would list these below as a few Affirmative Defenses along with about 20 others if I was a defendant in this case. CGC basically allowed this to happen under THEIR watch. CGC is supposed to be the EXPERTS. 

 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 1

Other than the fact that DEFENDANT resides in the State of New York, this answering DEFENDANT expressly denies each and every allegation therein contained save and except that this answering DEFENDANT recalls making perfectly legal sales and purchases of PLAINTIFFS graded comics over the internet although this answering  DEFENDANT expressly asserts that the information alleged is insufficient as to allow this answering DEFENDANT to form a belief as to any specific transaction that is referenced and on that basis denies the same and expressly denies that any transaction or submission to PLAINTIFF heretofore made by DEFENDANT had any association to illegal acts or manipulating PLAINTIFF graded comics. 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 2

This answering DEFENDANT alleges that any injury, which DEFENDANT denies, occurred solely as a result of PLAINTIFFS negligence and procrastination to properly verify that the plastic protective case which encapsulates PLAINTIFFS graded comic book is tamper resistant as conveyed in PLAINTIFFS guarantee wherein said negligence and procrastination functions as a complete impediment to any proposed recovery on behalf of PLAINTIFF. This Affirmative Defense is in no way an admission of any illegal acts asserted by PLAINTIFF. 

 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 3

This answering DEFENDANT alleges that PLAINTIFFS action is barred by the equitable doctrines of laches and unclean hands on part of PLAINTIFF. 

 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 4

This answering DEFENDANT alleges that PLAINTIFFS attorney lacks evidence with which to prosecute any claims made hereunder and that PLAINTIFFS attorney was aware of this fact at moment PLAINTIFFS attorney brought complaint and that the known lack of merit of these claims, based upon lack of specific evidence necessary to prove these claims, should subject PLAINTIFFS attorney to sanctions and penalties under FRCP Rule 11. 

 

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE 5

This answering DEFENDANT alleges that any injury, which DEFENDANT denies, occurred solely as a result of PLAINTIFFS negligent service quality and incompetence related to the oversight of PLAINTIFFS comic book grading, encapsulation and reholder processes and procedures. DEFENDANT alleges that PLAINTIFF employed management and other personnel severely lacking the experience required to properly grade, encapsulate & reholder comic books which has been substantiated by comic book collectors receiving graded, encapsulated and reholdered comic books that have incorrectly positioned labels, incorrectly documented labels, comic books encapsulated upside down, comic books encapsulated backwards, comic books damaged during encapsulation, comic books delivered in cracked/broken slabs. This Affirmative Defense is in no way an admission of any illegal acts asserted by PLAINTIFF. 

That's the longest wording I've ever seen for "Of COURSE we are criminals, but their JOB was to catch us. They didn't do THEIR JOB very well."

[comeaux]

On 2/10/2024 at 8:55 PM, valiantman said:

That's the longest wording I've ever seen for "Of COURSE we are criminals, but their JOB was to catch us. They didn't do THEIR JOB very well."

I agree ! 

[comicguy123]

These are the same book. 9.0 Universal became 9.4 Universal Windy City pedigree copy. Book has been color touched and half inch tear repaired on back cover. How can a book go from 9.0 Universal, get color touched and tear restored, and become 9.4 Universal  Pedigree?

[comicguy123]

The original 9.0 Universal 0071944001 sold 10-14-2005 for $161,000.

After the restoration and color touch,

The 9.4 Windy City Pedigree,marked as Universal 1625297003 sold 11-21-2019 for $1.26 million.