ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[comicwiz]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:55 PM, skybolt said:

Wow, that's some great detective work. I'm so confused as to how this would happen? Inside job?

That is the million dollar question isn't it!

[Iconic1s]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:07 PM, comicwiz said:

That is the million dollar question isn't it!

My head hurts.

[sledgehammer]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:04 PM, comicwiz said:

So is everyone else thinking what I'm thinking -  those same grade dates!

What are the possibilities here?

The only thing I can think of.

The seller disputed the green label, sent it back, the stamp is there, and they revise the grade date's cert #??

[sledgehammer]

No, the first cert would be gone.

[comicwiz]

On 12/22/2023 at 2:14 PM, sledgehammer said:

The only thing I can think of.

The seller disputed the green label, sent it back, the stamp is there, and they revise the grade date's cert #??

Does he have a remote to control all the people this had to involve, to get it done on the same day? I can't fathom the process being that responsive.

[comicwiz]

On 12/22/2023 at 2:15 PM, sledgehammer said:

No, the first cert would be gone.

Right, that too

[comicwiz]

On 12/22/2023 at 2:14 PM, Iconic1s said:

My head hurts.

I did warn everyone to brace themselves 

[THE_BEYONDER]

[Timed]

So if I understand correctly, the same book was "graded" twice, in two separate submissions, on the exact same date?

[Broke as a Joke]

Really bad look for CGC. Again.  

[Changer]

hold on to your coffee 

The Usual Suspects (1995) - "The Greatest Trick"/ending scene [1080] (youtube.com)

Edited December 22, 2023 by Changer

[Gaard]

On 12/22/2023 at 11:53 AM, Mijael.Levy said:

Problem is that when CGC gets a reholder order they don't open the platic sleeve so they can't really see the book from inside to verify its complete , if it has MJ insert or whatever. They will  probably solve this issue by adding something in the plastic sleeve.

You sure about that?

[Timed]

Something I can't figure out.

If CGC is not opening the inner wells for the swap books during reholders, HOW are the graders' notes matching precisely on these fraud ones? And if they are indeed opening the inner wells to verify... HOW would they not see the missing pages or MVS.

Inside man adjusting notes? 

[sledgehammer]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:17 PM, comicwiz said:

I did warn everyone to brace themselves 

So there are cert #s, same date, adjacent to the blue 7.5 in that submission, but not the green label in that submission.

No idea what that might mean.

[Jaylam]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:54 PM, Christophe9999 said:

It would be great if CGC gave a $5 credit towards grading or something to return labels. Keeps the census clean and incentivizes people to return CPR labels. It's a win-win. 

Back in 2012 I sent a book in for reholder that was originally graded in 2002 and was in a first generation holder. What I didn't know was that somehow in the reordering process the certification number for that book got removed from the census. Problem is I didn't discover this until this year when I tried to look it up and nothing showed up much to my shock and surprise. 

CGC tried to help me out but couldn't restore it on the census with the correct grade date (which was sometime in 2002) so now I have a book in a 2nd generation holder with a grade date of this year. 

[Timed]

On 12/22/2023 at 12:53 PM, comicwiz said:

Now look at the graded date on the blue 7.5:

It could be that the culprit bought two 181 that so happen to have been graded on the same day - one qualified one blue - and did the switcheroo by taking the qualified 181 into the blue 181 slab.

Unlikely because they were two separate submissions, but possible.

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Timed

[sledgehammer]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:35 PM, Timed said:

It could be that the culprit bought two 181 that so happen to have been graded on the same day - one qualified one blue - and did the switcheroo by taking the qualified 181 into the blue 181 slab. Unlikely, but possible.

 

Different submissions, so that would be weird.

[Timed]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:36 PM, sledgehammer said:

Different submissions, so that would be weird.

Agreed, edited my post to add that right as you answered.

[comicwiz]

On 12/22/2023 at 2:32 PM, sledgehammer said:

So there are cert #s, same date, adjacent to the blue 7.5 in that submission, but not the green label in that submission.

No idea what that might mean.

Two different s/n's:

Green 7.0: 4115260001
Blue 7.5:  4115170002

They are both available through lookup, meaning someone had to input them into CGC's database on the very same day. This simply is not possible unless the same person who has access to populating the database also has access to the tooling to make the switch. Remember, the same book went from a green label to blue label.

He could have luckily mined a Blue 7.5 s/n, but the same day as the green label got graded?

At this point, we need to eliminate every possible scenario that this isn't an insider. I can't think of one.

[sledgehammer]

I should have been clearer. They were different submissions, not the same one.

No reason the same submitter would have sub #s so far apart, I believe?