What is "Poor Pressing" and how is that a book defect and not an opinion? 5 5

[Crusafitch]

My whole last Submission had never seen this before. And I got big hits on the grades. If something is poorly pressed that sounds like an opinion not a defect in the book. The result of poor press should be the standard. Crease to cover, spine stress etc. those type of things correct? Or am I crazy? Ive already reached out to support for an explanation but nada. I have no idea what this means and took significant grade hits to what should've been higher grade books.

Edited April 9 by Crusafitch

[Axe Elf]

The real irony would be if CGC did the pressing, and then dinged themselves for doing a poor job.

P.S.  As I understand it, pretty much ALL grader's notes are "opinions."

Edited April 9 by Axe Elf

[Crusafitch]

But like a crease is a crease, water damage is water damage. There's a physical defect attached to each the severity of which is of slight opinion. But Poor Press? Where or what is the associated defect? It's pure opinion. 

[thehumantorch]

An opinion?  Maybe but that's what you pay CGC for, an opinion of the grade and condition of the book.

In reality they've identified poor pressing, water logged, and moisture damage on many of your submitted books.  Rather than reject their grading as an opinion I think you should study the books carefully to see if you can identify a problem.  Water logged would indicate these books have been exposed to way too much moisture during pressing and  that isn't normal.   CGC isn't perfect but I bet dollars to doughnuts there's visible pressing damage like pebbling.

Are you pressing your books or is someone else?

[Stefan_W]

Honestly, If I got "poorly pressed" as a grader note I would take it as "duuuuuude, time to find a new pressor." If I was the one that pressed them I would take some time to learn more about pressing before pressing and submitting more. 

[thehumantorch]

@joeypost

[Qalyar]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:37 PM, Crusafitch said:

But like a crease is a crease, water damage is water damage. There's a physical defect attached to each the severity of which is of slight opinion. But Poor Press? Where or what is the associated defect? It's pure opinion. 

It's not though. There's a whole constellation of ways that pressing can go wrong. For example, if the pressing process has imprinted a pattern into the paper or has flattened the comic in ways that cannot possibly reflect actual production. Pebbling is also an imprinted pattern, but caused by poor post-press drying practices rather than poor pressing per se, but they usually notate that as "pebbling", so I expect something else is the problem here.. Any of those is a concrete, mechanical flaw. "Poor pressing" doesn't mean CGC's graders think the presser could have done a nicer job and worked out more flaws; it means they believe the presser damaged the book.

That's especially true in combination with a grader note like "water logged", which means that these books (or at least parts of them) were exposed to so much water that there is structural evidence of that experience. I can only assume that also reflects errors by the presser.

[Lightning55]

On 4/9/2024 at 4:51 PM, thehumantorch said:

 I bet dollars to doughnuts

"Dollars to donuts" aka "a dollar to a donut"

In the past, that expression meant something was so certain that you would bet $1 to what used to be a 5 cent donut, or roughly 20:1 odds.

Now I think it is pretty much even odds, $1 to a $1 donut, or possibly less than an even-money bet.

But the expression hangs in there, or is it lost on the current generation?

[thehumantorch]

On 4/9/2024 at 5:28 PM, Lightning55 said:

"Dollars to donuts" aka "a dollar to a donut"

In the past, that expression meant something was so certain that you would bet $1 to what used to be a 5 cent donut, or roughly 20:1 odds.

Now I think it is pretty much even odds, $1 to a $1 donut, or possibly less than an even-money bet.

But the expression hangs in there, or is it lost on the current generation?

Not sure but next I'm gonna trot out 'you've got more _________ than Carter's got pills'

[thehumantorch]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:25 PM, Qalyar said:

It's not though. There's a whole constellation of ways that pressing can go wrong. For example, if the pressing process has imprinted a pattern into the paper or has flattened the comic in ways that cannot possibly reflect actual production. Pebbling is also an imprinted pattern, but caused by poor post-press drying practices rather than poor pressing per se, but they usually notate that as "pebbling", so I expect something else is the problem here.. Any of those is a concrete, mechanical flaw. "Poor pressing" doesn't mean CGC's graders think the presser could have done a nicer job and worked out more flaws; it means they believe the presser damaged the book.

That's especially true in combination with a grader note like "water logged", which means that these books (or at least parts of them) were exposed to so much water that there is structural evidence of that experience. I can only assume that also reflects errors by the presser.

Agreed.  And if the books were water logged they may very well have suffered pressing damage because of their hydrated state.  This isn't about defects that weren't fixed by pressing, this is about defects introduced by the press.

[Topnotchman]

The defect is the condition of the comic was degraded by poor pressing.  

[comicginger1789]

I don't think poorly pressed is an opinion...they seem to provide some of the reasoning in the other defects (water logged, moisture). Whoever pressed this ruined the paper in this manner. Rippling and other things like markings imprinted into the cover are another...CGC graders have seen enough pressing now to decipher if the flaws were caused by that or by reading, and them putting poor pressing identifies that specifically as the cause.

Never use a presser who has not pressed for more than 5 years OR

Never use a presser who has pressed less than 500 books in their life AND

Always be wary of a presser who uses a press that cost them less than $100.

Those are my golden rules

[D84]

I think the real question should be who pressed these books?

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 4/9/2024 at 6:22 PM, D84 said:

I think the real question should be who pressed these books?

[joeypost]

On 4/9/2024 at 5:18 PM, thehumantorch said:

@joeypost

There are no words. 

[DougC]

On 4/9/2024 at 12:58 PM, Crusafitch said:

Can you tell us who pressed the books?

I am all for taking a shot at CGC for their terrible high heat quick press but this seems to be a case of over hydration where the book "reverted" after pressing. Even I doubt this would be done by them (your book is more likely to be burnt). I had a copy of defenders #65 in this condition where the book wrinkled after being slabbed, another press fixed the issue and it retained the 9.8 (thanks Rich).

[Hulksdaddy1]

I have to see what these books looked like. 

[Paul Kosnik]

All,

I don't think i'm speaking out of line to say the OP pressed the books himself (he posted this info elsewhere).  He also shared elsewhere that he's been pressing for some time, and submitted many books previously with high grades and never before seen this grader's note.

I do think he has a good point that no one here is addressing--"poor pressing" itself is not a defect.  It may be the root cause of a defect, but it's not a defect.  A defect would be "canvassing", "sunken staples", "pebbling", "cockling", etc.  I agree with the OP/presser/submitter of these books--he paid CGC for a grade and assessment of the defects.  For the money paid, he deserves an explanation of the grade with an assessment of defects, in this case so that he can improve his pressing technique.  

To our knowledge no one has ever received "poor pressing" before as a defect.  It's not listed in The Official CGC Guide to Grading Comics as a defect, nor can i find mention of it on the website.  All of the other possible defects are listed on the website and in the Guide.  Shouldn't "poor pressing" be?  Better yet, i believe they shouldn't use the term "poor pressing", because it's not a defect, and they should use the list of actual defects, and/or create new defects if they need to.

[Paul Kosnik]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:42 PM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

I have to see what these books looked like. 

He shared a pic elsewhere.  You can see what looks like rippling in the book, even in a straight-on view of the comic in the slab.  Looks like too much humidity was used without properly adjusting the pressing parameters.

[Topnotchman]

Instead of grading the book “The CGC” has admitted to grading the pressing with this example.