Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[DanJD]

On 7/29/2024 at 6:33 AM, BraveDave said:

They reassured me in writing that there are no issues. In writing, directly in response to my concern about this specific issue. I pointed out the discussion on the forum and they relayed it to a manager. I said I would NOT grade my books if there was an issue that could damage them. I photographed all my books and made videos of the ones of highest value, so there is clear evidence of the submitted condition. 
 

So of course I am relying on statements that there is no issue with the encapsulation process. Otherwise how could they respond, in writing, that there is no problem? After conferring with a manager… and after I clearly raised the specific issue (and the existence of this ongoing discussion).  
 

For others, I suggest good documentation. I will leave it at that.

Attached is proof in writing from CS that they are aware of the problem but simply deny it’s an issue.  Also, when I called CS, the rep had no Idea who CGC Mike was on the forums or about this thread.  They also said very specifically that their customer service manager I could speak with is completely separate from the comic grading operations manager and would have no more info than the CS rep could offer (I just spoke with some last week not last month).  

I had lots of documentation.  Because they converted my ME to a reholder there was not a regrade.  This avoided a grade drop so there was no damages to pay out on.  CGC is happy but I am stuck with a 9.6 that looks like a 9.0.  But then again, my unofficial 9.0 looks better than some of those 9.8s floating around lately… Good luck.

Edited July 29 by DanJD

[CGC Mike]

Just a heads up.  Do not repost anything that has been previously removed form this thread.

[Ninja0215]

Well, since the warping is part of the cooling process; how about just wait till they're cool before putting books in them?? 

Maybe this was discussed already but that seems like a fairly easy fix. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 7/29/2024 at 8:52 AM, Ninja0215 said:

Well, since the warping is part of the cooling process; how about just wait till they're cool before putting books in them?? 

Maybe this was discussed already but that seems like a fairly easy fix. 

the comic would already be in the inner well

The comic is set in the inner well and then sealed, and I assume it is the seal that heats it up? Then as it cools it already has the book inside with whatever "happens" then happening....

Edited July 29 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 7/29/2024 at 8:57 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

the comic would already be in the inner well

The comic is set in the inner well and then sealed, and I assume it is the seal that heats it up? Then as it cools it already has the book inside with whatever "happens" then happening....

If it isn't the inner well heat from being sealed?

It would be hard to think the case being sealed and being further away then to heat up the inner well

Unless the case has more heat to seal than an inner well?

All interesting questions, and food for thought  

[MadGenius]

The curved inner well being "normal" and "within tolerance" is CGC trying to cover their rear ends. As someone who has been collecting CGC graded comics for nearly two decades and owns about 500 slabbed comics, I can say, without question, that the inner wells were not curved in any way prior to late 2023. To suggest otherwise is laughable and, to be honest, quite offensive to the customers of CGC who know otherwise.

Edited July 29 by MadGenius

[Ninja0215]

yes. this has to be fixed before it becomes a bigger issue. OR before PSA takes their customers away..oops  

[MadGenius]

Trying to normalize the bending of a collectible where one of the grading criteria is its ability to remain flat makes me very angry. This is the wrong response, but not surprising given how similar issues have been handled in the past.

[Ninja0215]

Knock on wood; I haven't had any issues but for those that have especially high value books this isn't a good look.

I would love to keep my membership here but.... 

[MadGenius]

To be clear I'm not blaming @CGC Mike for any of this. He's not encapsulating books or making decisions about how to fix this problem. He's tried his best to help people who have had issues with their books, but his superiors clearly have other ideas on how they want this situation handled which is disappointing.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/29/2024 at 3:08 PM, MadGenius said:

Trying to normalize the bending of a collectible where one of the grading criteria is its ability to remain flat makes me very angry. This is the wrong response, but not surprising given how similar issues have been handled in the past.

Not dissimilar to normalising Newton Rings on a product advertised as having a crystal clear display.

[MadGenius]

On 7/29/2024 at 10:17 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Not dissimilar to normalising Newton Rings on a product advertised as having a crystal clear display.

At least the Newton rings were purely cosmetic. I'll take Newton rings all day over having my books damaged during encapsulation.

[Ninja0215]

On 7/29/2024 at 10:16 AM, MadGenius said:

To be clear I'm not blaming @CGC Mike for any of this. He's not encapsulating books or making decisions about how to fix this problem. He's tried his best to help people who have had issues with their books, but his superiors clearly have other ideas on how they want this situation handled which is disappointing.

Yeah, he's doing everything he can to relay our dismay of what happening. you can send all the messages upline you want but UPLINE HAS TO HANDLE IT. it's in their hands now.

[Ninja0215]

The graders are gonna read this and find out which book is mine and draw all over it now  

[MadGenius]

It seems like this problem has a fairly simple solution: go back to sealing the cases the same way it was done prior to reholder-gate and find another way to deter the scammers. That can be through more rigor in the reholder process, some type of tamper proof watermark on the inner well, or some other process. To continue using the same process that they know is damaging books is unacceptable. 

[Ninja0215]

On 7/29/2024 at 10:42 AM, MadGenius said:

It seems like this problem has a fairly simple solution: go back to sealing the cases the same way it was done prior to reholder-gate and find another way to deter the scammers. That can be through more rigor in the reholder process, some type of tamper proof watermark on the inner well, or some other process. To continue using the same process that they know is damaging books is unacceptable. 

Amen reverend 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

[DaveSFU]

On 7/29/2024 at 10:16 AM, MadGenius said:

To be clear I'm not blaming @CGC Mike for any of this. He's not encapsulating books or making decisions about how to fix this problem. He's tried his best to help people who have had issues with their books, but his superiors clearly have other ideas on how they want this situation handled which is disappointing.

Yeah same,  Mike is nothing but helpful. Not blaming him for anything here.  

[DaveSFU]

Well so far, despite CS telling me over and over that the Exceptions team would reach out to me once they looked at my books,  nobody did.  2 of my 4 ME submissions (24 books) went from "Scheduled For Grading" all the way through to "Shipped" in the span of about 2 hours this morning.   They all still have the same grades, which isnt possible given the damage some of them had and that CCS didnt have their hands on them.   So looks like im just getting back damaged and reholdered books with inaccurate grades?   And probably still in warped inner wells.  

Edit - CS confirmed all they did was reholder them

Edited July 29 by DaveSFU

[MAY1979]

On 7/29/2024 at 12:52 PM, DaveSFU said:

Well so far, despite CS telling me over and over that the Exceptions team would reach out to me once they looked at my books,  nobody did.  2 of my 4 ME submissions (24 books) went from "Scheduled For Grading" all the way through to "Shipped" in the span of about 2 hours this morning.   They all still have the same grades, which isnt possible given the damage some of them had and that CCS didnt have their hands on them.   So looks like im just getting back damaged and reholdered books with inaccurate grades?   And probably still in warped inner wells.  

Not saying you will but many will simply sell off the affected books in this situation. 

That means unless one can see a 2024 slabbed book in hand its not safe to purchase. IIRC one of the Charter messages of CGC was to prevent having to do that in the online era...

IMHO CGC is not being wise at this point in time in opening up a huge lane for PSA to convoy down

Edited July 29 by MAR1979