Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:19 PM, LordRahl said:

But it's only inconsistent between age of books. So far, EVERY modern I've submitted in the last few months is bent. Every. Single. One. Most of them very slightly and some pretty bad. But it's across the board. I have yet to see a pic of a completely flat inner well on a modern submission from the last few months. If someone would like to post one, please do and prove me wrong. The consistency within the moderns is exactly why I can't imagine this is human error. I don't think anything has been "established", I think all we have is conjecture at this point and I don't think we'll ever know the exact cause because CGC won't tell us and they are really the only ones that can figure out exactly what is going on. We don't have the required info. 

I rechecked my Avengers 8.  It wasn’t as bad as the Wolverine.  The ends curl back vs bowing forward and not as extreme as the others.  Maybe moderns are impacted more.  I don’t know.  I also forget that my over 40 year old Wolverine book is still considered “modern”.

[Ninja0215]

Tomorrow is the day; day of reckoning.   If my soul reaver book comes back with any evidence of warping; I'm done. 

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:31 PM, LordRahl said:

I just did the math. I've submitted 1009 books since the start of April. I'm stopping all submissions until they fix this or I can send them to PSA. I simply can't take the chance of stuff that is for my PC being damaged and stuff that is meant to be flipped will sell for less than it should because some subset of buyers is sitting out on 2024 submissions, which is ALREADY happening. In auctions, sometimes all it takes is 1 or 2 people to sit out for the price to be negatively affected to a large degree and I'm just not willing to risk that. 

I began avoiding all 2024 Graded/Slabbed books early in July. Even Comics I don't win at auction, my bids would have pushed up  - some considerably.  I have several close friends who "don't do internet forums" each of them spends (possible now past tense) rather decent money on Slabbed books a month. I've advised them to look at their books. All of of them are totally P.O.'d . They asked what dates are safe, I told them to avoid taking chances thus nothing after Dec 2022. They all took my advice - something that has never occurred before with them. The proof was in the pudding aka when they look at sides of their slabs.

Two of my buddies have taken to opening handfuls Disputes and Chargebacks including for any purchases that rolled off of ebay's 30 days.  Its those buddies who gave me full scoop on how the merchant pays all associated investigative costs to the card issuer and which card issuers have the most power; Chase, BOA and Amex. Since my friends are not submitters CGC wont face any potential Chargebacks from them

Yeah word won't get out to everyone and many simply won't care however loss of bidders especially those who previously spent 4-5 figures a month, plus bidding up items they did not win, regardless of slabbing date, will slowly but surely fiscally hurt folks like you my friend @LordRahl of that you can be sure.

Cat is out of the bag. It will get worse as those like for example my higher-rolling buddies spread the word in "their circles".

Heather Locklear will show you the result of telling 2 friends and then telling 2 friends and so on and so on.

 

Edited August 15 by MAR1979

[MAY1979]

BTW for you smaller sellers (merchants from Credit Card perspective). Win or Loose you pay the Dispute and Chargeback Fee! aka Even if you Win, you still Lose. If via eBay they loathe chargebacks especially if from the larger Card Issuers, so expect them to take recourse against the seller.

https://www.chargebackgurus.com/blog/chargeback-fees-the-true-cost-of-your-chargebacks

https://www.signifyd.com/resources/fraud-101/chargeback-process-in-depth/

Edited August 15 by MAR1979

[LordRahl]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:59 PM, MAR1979 said:

 

Yeah word won't get out to everyone and many simply won't care however loss of bidders especially those who previously spent 4-5 figures a month regardless of slabbing date, will slowly but surely fiscally hurt folks like you my friend @LordRahl of that you can be sure.

Cat is out of the bag. It will get worse as those like for example my higher-rolling buddies spread the word in "their circles".

 

I'm aware of that, which is why I'm stopping submissions. I can afford to do that as I don't rely on comic income for anything other than buying other comics. So I'll just stop buying comics for a bit. Snowball effect. For those who do make their living selling books, you should be worried, not burying your head in the sand.

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:14 PM, LordRahl said:

I'm aware of that, which is why I'm stopping submissions. I can afford to do that as I don't rely on comic income for anything other than buying other comics. So I'll just stop buying comics for a bit. Snowball effect. For those who do make their living selling books, you should be worried, not burying your head in the sand.

Folk a reminder; Solution already is known to CGC as Joeypost and others who do large volume of submissions or large scale influencers are not affected. Lets see how many folks like LordRahl are harmed financially before CGC decide to give everyone's books the same treatment. 

The hobby was already in an overall down slide, loosing as little as 5% of potential bread&butter buyers and bidders at this juncture will do a decent amount of harm. Once some folks get it in their heads that any slab after 2023 (or 2022) equals bad it will take a long time to reverse that perception.

[Ninja0215]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:29 PM, Poutine said:

A bad one

The new business model that is sweeping the free world pretty much states the customer is wrong, is not to be respected, and cannot go anywhere else.

If anyone saw the news that Alphabet has been found guilty of running a monopoly, you should be jumping for joy. This single event can be the turning point back to the power into the consumers hands  

As it should be; we have the power, and we can turn it off whenever we want.  Cgc needs us more than we need them . 

 

Spitting facts. 

 

P.s if I gwt banned, it was a pleasure being with you all. Lol 

[LordRahl]

On 8/14/2024 at 6:45 PM, MAR1979 said:

Solution already is known to CGC as Joeypost and others who do large volume of submissions or large scale influencers are not affected. 

You keep saying this and I've been reticent to comment but let's just go with.... pics or it didn't happen 

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:51 PM, LordRahl said:

You keep saying this and I've been reticent to comment but let's just go with.... pics or it didn't happen 

Beside being professional and totally respectful, Joey has always been on the level as far as i am aware.  He commented last week in this thread to mention his books not affected but he would examine all his inbound slabs.

On 8/6/2024 at 3:44 PM, joeypost said:

I can only speak for the books I personally get back and can inspect, but I have had minimal QC issues from the beginning. Getting things done in a timely manner is a whole different animal, but I can only remember a few books with either labels that were incorrect or had inner well issues. 

Please tag JoeyPost in a new post and pose your question. Input from him is pretty much worth more than anyone's in this thread due to his background in the hobby and massive current quantity submitter status.

Edited August 15 by MAR1979

[LordRahl]

On 8/14/2024 at 6:57 PM, MAR1979 said:

Beside being professional and totally respectful, Joey has always been on the level as far as i am aware.  He commented last week in this thread to mention his books not affected but he would examine all his inbound slabs.

Please tag JoeyPost in a new post and pose your question. Input from him is pretty much worth more than anyone's in this thread due to his background in the hobby and massive current quantity submitter status.

I don't have any questions to pose to Joe, not sure where you read a question in my post. I also agree that Joe is a stand up guy so I have no reason to question his integrity. Let's just say that you and I are reading his post differently and leave it at that. I still welcome anyone to post some pics of a totally straight inner well from a modern submission over the past few months. 

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:18 PM, LordRahl said:

I still welcome anyone to post some pics of a totally straight inner well from a modern submission over the past few months. 

Agreed from a data driven perspective!

Edited August 15 by MAR1979

[WernerVonDoom]

Finally took a picture of the book I bought that was graded in July.  Long edge of the slab and the short edge. Sorry the resolution is not that great:

[Comito]

CGC we need a new case design. Here is mine…Oh Boy!

 

 

Edited August 15 by Comito
Pictures

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

[Colin Nash]

On 5/15/2024 at 2:37 AM, LordRahl said:

I just got back 8 boxes of books. I've opened 4 of the boxes and all the slabs seem to have warped inner wells where they are concave in the middle, like I'm sure many of you have seen with backing boards. So, since the inner well is bent, it's bending my book inside it, which is of course putting stress on the spine. I've looked through a bunch of older slabs and they don't have this problem. Is anyone else seeing this with recent subs or did I just get "lucky"?

I discovered this on a modern comic I received back from CGC 4 months ago. I only check it because of the Youtube video by Automatic Comics called "Are CGC cases Damaging Comics". You should check it out.

I had previously complained to CGC about spine ticks on this near perfect 2018 comic where there were none before. It came back grade 9.6. I had assumed it was bad handling that had caused it but. it is now clear it has a concave inner well. 

CGC asked for photos of the comic prior to submission but, I had not done so on that basis of its nice condition and modest value. So, nothing could be proved at that time but. the bowed inner well is surely the culprit imo. 

Everyone must raise this with CGC if they have been affected. Its a new Quality Control issue that must be fixed pronto.

Edited August 15 by Colin Nash
Typo

[jimbo_7071]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:45 PM, MAR1979 said:

Folk a reminder; Solution already is known to CGC as Joeypost and others who do large volume of submissions or large scale influencers are not affected. Lets see how many folks like LordRahl are harmed financially before CGC decide to give everyone's books the same treatment. 

The hobby was already in an overall down slide, loosing as little as 5% of potential bread&butter buyers and bidders at this juncture will do a decent amount of harm. Once some folks get it in their heads that any slab after 2023 (or 2022) equals bad it will take a long time to reverse that perception.

I feel fortunate that none of the slabbed books I've purchased this year were slabbed in 2024. I feel like I dodged a bullet.

I do have a couple of books with damaged holders that I had intended to send in, but I guess I'll just have to live with them.

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:31 PM, LordRahl said:

I just did the math. I've submitted 1009 books since the start of April. I'm stopping all submissions until they fix this or I can send them to PSA. I simply can't take the chance of stuff that is for my PC being damaged and stuff that is meant to be flipped will sell for less than it should because some subset of buyers is sitting out on 2024 submissions, which is ALREADY happening. In auctions, sometimes all it takes is 1 or 2 people to sit out for the price to be negatively affected to a large degree and I'm just not willing to risk that. 

That's 1009 Slabs of yours that a growing list of people now have zero interest in purchasing, bidding on, or owning simply because of the date it was graded+slabbed.  I'd like someone to explain how that is NOT a Bad thing!

 

P.S. Credit Card Issuers loathe upward Dispute and Chargeback trends.  If number of those spikes a Chronic dispute investigation on the merchant will be set in motion.  That type of investigation if initiated by a huge MasterCard or Visa Credit Card Issuer (specifically BOA and Chase) will be taken seriously by even large corporations.

Edited August 15 by MAR1979

[Ninja0215]

This is absolutely a bad thing. Because get what came backntoday with a very obvious bend?? Yep! @ADAMANTIUM was right.  Not only is this bent but it's warped.   How do screw this up this badly?!!!! 

 

I'll see you guys across the way. ✌️

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/15/2024 at 4:03 PM, Ninja0215 said:

This is absolutely a bad thing. Because get what came backntoday with a very obvious bend?? Yep! @ADAMANTIUM was right.  Not only is this bent but it's warped.   How do screw this up this badly?!!!! 

 

I'll see you guys across the way. ✌️

Before you go post pics I guess... warped is new or I'm trying to picture it.

 

[Ninja0215]