Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[EastEnd1]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:47 PM, MAR1979 said:

The acceptance of returns may have already stopped.  Official message is that the damage is normal - end of problem.

As mentioned in recent posts correcting the issue is tantamount to admission of guilt and will likely result in significant expense.

There is no point if return, they are in too deep, from now on its deny deny deny and repeat repeat repeat.

The fact that they're taking them back is already an admission of "guilt".  Though I don't see any guilt here... just an error in their slabbing rework.  Frankly, if they don't want to call it a fix, that's fine... all they need to do is rework the sealing process and/or holder as they've already done innumerable times before, problem solved.  Not sure why you'd continue to grow your exposure when the fix is presumably easy... the risk/reward just doesn't add up.

[electricprune]

On 8/19/2024 at 2:27 PM, EastEnd1 said:

The fact that they're taking them back is already an admission of "guilt".  Though I don't see any guilt here... just an error in their slabbing rework.  Frankly, if they don't want to call it a fix, that's fine... all they need to do is rework the sealing process and/or holder as they've already done innumerable times before, problem solved.  Not sure why you'd continue to grow your exposure when the fix is presumably easy... the risk/reward just doesn't add up.

I know the thread is quite long now, but it’s probably a worthwhile read. No pun intended, but there are a few twists and turns keep anything from being easy.

As I mentioned, CGC has stated that there is no issue to fix. A few people that asked about this very early on are the exception to that.

[MAY1979]

On 8/19/2024 at 2:27 PM, EastEnd1 said:

The fact that they're taking them back is already an admission of "guilt".  Though I don't see any guilt here... just an error in their slabbing rework.  Frankly, if they don't want to call it a fix, that's fine... all they need to do is rework the sealing process and/or holder as they've already done innumerable times before, problem solved.  Not sure why you'd continue to grow your exposure when the fix is presumably easy... the risk/reward just doesn't add up.

The returns are came back still curved/concaved/bent/bowled . The only differences between before and after are standard deviations related to the process.

Again their stance is its normal. They are in a defend their bottom line position and that won't change. 

If they start to fix returns or new subs books going out is an admission of guilt which exposes them $$$.

You can bet they have already run cost to risk analysis. Thus their stoppage of returns and official response of "its normal".

We can talk all we like about it but for those few who care about the actual condition of the book inside a slab its already Game Over.

Edited August 19 by MAR1979

[Stefan_W]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:38 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I haven't read this entire thread but my understanding is that they are accepting some of these slabs back and correcting them.  So unless you want to be doing that ad infinitum, seems to me you'd be working on correcting the issue, especially since it appears to not have been an issue until recently and one would think, an easy fix.

The ease of the fix depends on the source of the issue. One guess that I have is the bend is linked to heating up the case while making an airtight seal all the way around, which was implemented as a way of preventing tampering. The fix would be to not seal all the way around anymore, but them it opens things up to tampering again. 

Of course this may not be the issue at all. If it is a flaw in the plastic sheets used to create the inner well they may just be working through them to get to the next batch, which means the issue would eventually fix itself (while ticking off an ever increasing number of customers). At the end of the day we can only guess at the cause, and we are hoping CGC fixes it sooner rather than later. 

[Skytripa]

Thought I would add the comic that I sent in for JSA authentication appears to not be curved. This was in the same time frame where 5 others in the same batch where curved.

[MAY1979]

On 8/19/2024 at 3:35 PM, Skytripa said:

Thought I would add the comic that I sent in for JSA authentication appears to not be curved. This was in the same time frame where 5 others in the same batch where curved.

Based on CGC official CS message, curved is normal.  Therefore that one flat book is an anomaly and you must send it back posthaste to have the normal damage applied.

Edited August 20 by MAR1979

[HotKey]

I think it really is this simple. As many have stated, any fix or admission opens the floodgates. Their current approach costs them for sure, but costs them the least out of available options.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Blackrock start to shop them around after 3 different scandals in 3 straight years.

edit: fixed embed

Edited August 19 by HotKey

[LordRahl]

On 8/19/2024 at 10:33 AM, MAR1979 said:

 

If against all odds it begins to hurt their bottom line, and Executive Bonus', the parent company will end the pump and dump and sell off CGC. 

You realize Blackstone owns CCG, right? Not just CGC. CGC is a fraction of the revenue, not quite as simple as the picture you're painting. Also, in my experience, not all execs are as short sighted as you make them out to be.

[DC#]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:16 PM, LordRahl said:

You realize Blackstone owns CCG, right? Not just CGC. CGC is a fraction of the revenue, not quite as simple as the picture you're painting. Also, in my experience, not all execs are as short sighted as you make them out to be.

Not only are all execs not that short sighted -  incompetency and organizational dysfunction are far more common than planned chicanery.     But it is more fun to think about nefarious people sitting in darkened paneled rooms smoking cigars and twirling their mustache while plotting their evil deeds.   Like a comic book villain now that I think about it! 

[wiparker824]

Just got back a 25 book vintage sub, and 23 of the 25 were completely flat. 1 was just tilted, but the actual book wasn’t bowed just for some reason the well was set at an angle. There was one with a noticeable bow however, FF49

not sure how easy that is to see but the middle is definitely bowed. Now for this book it doesn’t really matter as the grade is a 2.0, so it’s not really impacting anything. 

But my overall results on the vintage sub seems to be in line with what a lot of people are reporting that it’s a lot less frequent on pre-1975 books but even so the problem is currently happening on books shipping out now.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:16 PM, LordRahl said:

CGC is a fraction of the revenue

Edited August 20 by RockMyAmadeus

[MAY1979]

Aren't those the coin slabs that dude used to sell on HSN

Edited August 20 by MAR1979

[Stuk]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:33 PM, MAR1979 said:

 

Any business they lose will be less than admission of guilt. 

Not "any" business. If they lose enough--if enough people stop buying (and selling!) the affected slabs--then they'll have to act. But there is a middle ground, of course--they can quietly fix it without admission of there ever having been a problem. Not perfect, but probably manageable. (Then, CGC can go back to not addressing its other major issues other than the truly poor case, such as conflicts of interest, etc. All of that said, I also think CGC, if they correct these things, is super valuable. But it kind of all starts with the case not harming the books.)

[MAY1979]

On 8/19/2024 at 10:18 PM, Stuk said:

Not "any" business. If they lose enough--if enough people stop buying (and selling!) the affected slabs--then they'll have to act. But there is a middle ground, of course--they can quietly fix it without admission of there ever having been a problem. Not perfect, but probably manageable. (Then, CGC can go back to not addressing its other major issues other than the truly poor case, such as conflicts of interest, etc. All of that said, I also think CGC, if they correct these things, is super valuable. But it kind of all starts with the case not harming the books.)

I like what you are saying but if they fix then how do they back out of their official stance of curving/concaving "is normal".  Seems to me they are in too deep and will only double down.

Edited August 20 by MAR1979

[Stefan_W]

So this is kind of weird to me so I thought I would share. I was selecting a few Werewolf by Night and Tomb of Dracula books to crack for a resub and to take a few pictures of the inner wells with measurements, and as I was going through my collection it was less straightforward than I was expecting. Just sharing in case anyone else is interesting in seeing what I am seeing. 

The top photo has a slab number starting with 425 and was graded by someone else in Nov 2023, which is before changes to the slab were made in response to the switcheroo scam. The inner well on this one is a basic bowl shape we are seeing with all the new ones coming out. 

The middle photo shows two that I graded myself in March of this year with slab numbers that start with 439. I am showing only two of my slabs from this group - one with a bowl shaped bend and the other that is perfectly flat. A few others from this submission have a bend upwards on only one side a several others are also completely flat. 

The bottom photo shows a slab that I graded myself in Apr 2024 from the 441 series. It does have a slight bend on the top but most of the inner well is straight. I have a couple like this, but most of the bends in the others are more pronounced. I also saw way more of a mix than I was expecting with some of the bent ones bending a lot more than others. 

 

Edited August 20 by Stefan_W

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

Perhaps a version of CGC's new logo.

[electricprune]

On 8/19/2024 at 11:15 PM, Stefan_W said:

So this is kind of weird to me so I thought I would share. I was selecting a few Werewolf by Night and Tomb of Dracula books to crack for a resub and to take a few pictures of the inner wells with measurements, and as I was going through my collection it was less straightforward than I was expecting. Just sharing in case anyone else is interesting in seeing what I am seeing. 

The top photo has a slab number starting with 425 and was graded by someone else in Nov 2023, which is before changes to the slab were made in response to the switcheroo scam. The inner well on this one is a basic bowl shape we are seeing with all the new ones coming out. 

The middle photo shows two that I graded myself in March of this year with slab numbers that start with 439. I am showing only two of my slabs from this group - one with a bowl shaped bend and the other that is perfectly flat. A few others from this submission have a bend upwards on only one side a several others are also completely flat. 

The bottom photo shows a slab that I graded myself in Apr 2024 from the 441 series. It does have a slight bend on the top but most of the inner well is straight. I have a couple like this, but most of the bends in the others are more pronounced. I also saw way more of a mix than I was expecting with some of the bent ones bending a lot more than others. 

 

We’re the two 439s on the same submission, or different ones?

[Stefan_W]

On 8/20/2024 at 7:57 AM, electricprune said:

We’re the two 439s on the same submission, or different ones?

Same submission

[Skytripa]

Kinda curious if the bend is something with the actual encapsulation process. If there are multiple people doing it maybe it comes down to 1 station or employee that is doing it different. Would explain why some are good and some are not.

[MAY1979]

On 8/20/2024 at 9:30 AM, Skytripa said:

Kinda curious if the bend is something with the actual encapsulation process. If there are multiple people doing it maybe it comes down to 1 station or employee that is doing it different. Would explain why some are good and some are not.

CGC has stated the bending/curve is normal, thus all books should have it. If only one station then CGC's claim is false.

 

Edited August 20 by MAR1979