Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[Stefan_W]

On 8/28/2024 at 10:11 AM, bc said:

From this old thread, it sounds like ultrasonic welding (which does generate localized heat) is used to seal the outer well.

-bc

I went down this road as the thing that sounded the most plausible given the timing and all that. The basic idea is that they started sealing the books all the way around, when the books cool it creates a vacuum, and then the inner well gets pulled into that shape. It appears to make sense.

What that does not explain is why this issue seems largely localized to modern tier books. I just got back a high value submission and all of the inner wells were straight as an arrow. Ditto for an unlimited value sub I did earlier, and my other high value submission in the spring. Slabs in those other tiers are also sealed all the way around and subject to the same heating/cooling. 

[MAY1979]

Nor do we have explanation why large submitters and influences receive premium treatment on 1975-present.

Joey recent posts prove at least to me his books are handled with extreme care while most others are not. Can't be a coincidence.

[u•A•g]

Sometime in the summer of 2023 I had purchased a Star Wars 1 in a 9.6 cgc slab. When I recieved the book it was beautiful. As a presser myself I decided to take a big risk and crack it open and resubmit for the chance of getting a 9.8. I did in fact get a 9.8 and was super excited. Which was short lived, because after receiving the book back from cgc it appeared they had damaged it. I assumed it had been "manhandled" either during grading or encapsulation. About 2 weeks ago I started hearing alot of talks about bent/concave inner-wells. So I pulled my slab off the wall and sure enough my book has this issue. I recieved this book back at the end of OCTOBER of 2023. I haven't reached out to cgc to see if i can get the issue rectified. Mainly because I'm not sure if too much time has passed. Any thoughts?

[Calm-Mix]

Does anyone know if this is happening with Magazine holders? 

[Calm-Mix]

On 8/28/2024 at 10:26 AM, u•A•g said:

Sometime in the summer of 2023 I had purchased a Star Wars 1 in a 9.6 cgc slab. When I recieved the book it was beautiful. As a presser myself I decided to take a big risk and crack it open and resubmit for the chance of getting a 9.8. I did in fact get a 9.8 and was super excited. Which was short lived, because after receiving the book back from cgc it appeared they had damaged it. I assumed it had been "manhandled" either during grading or encapsulation. About 2 weeks ago I started hearing alot of talks about bent/concave inner-wells. So I pulled my slab off the wall and sure enough my book has this issue. I recieved this book back at the end of OCTOBER of 2023. I haven't reached out to cgc to see if i can get the issue rectified. Mainly because I'm not sure if too much time has passed. Any thoughts?

 

That suck man! When CGC finally addresses this problem, they will have to tie it to either a product change or process change that happened and there should be a date that either one of these changes was made. I would hope they would accept slabs for reevaluation within that time frame. As long as these photos keep rolling in with newer and older submissions like yours, the public should be able to hone in on when this started.

[VinceVellCUSTOMS]

Can anyone clear this up for me, I got a request to send the books back in for a reholder. But how will that fix the damages to the spine ticks? as fas as I can tell its color brakes and they would never have passed a 9,8 prescreen if I sent them in like that.

I dont know much about pressing but I thought you cant press out color breaks?

Edited August 28 by VinceVellCUSTOMS

[joeypost]

On 8/28/2024 at 10:23 AM, MAY1979 said:

Nor do we have explanation why large submitters and influences receive premium treatment on 1975-present.

Joey recent posts prove at least to me his books are handled with extreme care while most others are not. Can't be a coincidence.

While I wish that was the case, I don’t feel that I receive any special treatment from CGC. 

[joeypost]

On 8/28/2024 at 10:52 AM, VinceVellCUSTOMS said:

Can anyone clear this up for me, I got a request to send the books back in for a reholder. But how will that fix the damages to the spine ticks? as fas as I can tell its color brakes and they would never have passed a 9,8 prescreen if I sent them in like that.

I dont know much about pressing but I thought you cant press out color breaks?

Once the paper and ink have a break that affects the color, unless the presser has been blessed with miraculous powers, the breaks will always be present albeit flat. 

[VinceVellCUSTOMS]

On 8/28/2024 at 10:59 AM, joeypost said:

Once the paper and ink have a break that affects the color, unless the presser has been blessed with miraculous powers, the breaks will always be present albeit flat. 

so basically they will just fake a press or reholder and say problem solved?

Edited August 28 by VinceVellCUSTOMS

[0r0d]

CGC really needs to get their house in order and quick.  The longer this goes on, the less trust people will have in CGC slabs.  And... graded slabbed comics are only valuable because people have faith that if you buy X grade, you're going to get an X-worthy book.   I'm already hesitant to buy any recently slabbed high grade book because I might just be buying a banana boat instead.  

So if people stop submitting books for CGC grading, and they stop buying CGC books because there's no faith in the quality of the encapsulated book (and not to mention that their competition is quickly increasing), then CGC will be out of business very quickly.

[0r0d]

On 8/28/2024 at 7:52 AM, VinceVellCUSTOMS said:

Can anyone clear this up for me, I got a request to send the books back in for a reholder. But how will that fix the damages to the spine ticks? as fas as I can tell its color brakes and they would never have passed a 9,8 prescreen if I sent them in like that.

I dont know much about pressing but I thought you cant press out color breaks?

A book could still get a 9.8 with color-breaking spine ticks, they just have to be very small.  

So they might press it and it could still get that 9.8 back.  Or maybe not.  Or it does, but it now has that color-break that was never there.

If one of my books that has this gets "fixed" by them and comes back at a lower grade, I'd want them to pay me for a replacement of that 9.8 book that they damaged.  I dont want a 9.6.  It was 9.8, they graded it 9.8, and because of their process it was damaged and is now 9.6.  I'd want the full replacement cost.

[MAY1979]

On 8/28/2024 at 11:16 AM, VinceVellCUSTOMS said:

so basically they will just fake a press or beholder and say problem solved?

Due to fiscal ramifications and probable legalities the issue will be denied.

The statement that the bends are normal will be where they permanently hold the line. To support that statement they MUST continue to damage Comics or the statement can be empirically proven false.

In effect they are in far too deep  and now must rely/hope on competitors not gaining in positive marketplace perception. 

 

P.S. based on either lack of awareness or cognitive dissonance in threads like CGC wait times and submission question topics for example the deny strategy appears to be working at least for the moment.

Edited August 28 by MAY1979

[0r0d]

Problem for CGC is they have already admitted that their process bends books.  They have claimed that this bending is a "normal" part of that process.  So, whether they admit to all the damages or not, and IANAL, this might well open them up for a class action lawsuit.

[MAY1979]

On 8/28/2024 at 11:43 AM, 0r0d said:

Problem for CGC is they have already admitted that their process bends books.  They have claimed that this bending is a "normal" part of that process.  So, whether they admit to all the damages or not, and IANAL, this might well open them up for a class action lawsuit.

The parent company will sell them off IF the flow on their pump and dump starts to weaken.

 

[VinceVellCUSTOMS]

On 8/28/2024 at 11:39 AM, 0r0d said:

A book could still get a 9.8 with color-breaking spine ticks, they just have to be very small.  

So they might press it and it could still get that 9.8 back.  Or maybe not.  Or it does, but it now has that color-break that was never there.

If one of my books that has this gets "fixed" by them and comes back at a lower grade, I'd want them to pay me for a replacement of that 9.8 book that they damaged.  I dont want a 9.6.  It was 9.8, they graded it 9.8, and because of their process it was damaged and is now 9.6.  I'd want the full replacement cost.

Well thats the thing, we send in all pre screens for 9,8.But if they claim they are 9,6 now from them damaging the book, do we get refunded but still have to pay for the pre screen? Whole point was sending in mint books for the 9,8 not for them to damage and get lower grades. 

[electricprune]

On 8/28/2024 at 12:11 PM, VinceVellCUSTOMS said:

Well thats the thing, we send in all pre screens for 9,8.But if they claim they are 9,6 now from them damaging the book, do we get refunded but still have to pay for the pre screen? Whole point was sending in mint books for the 9,8 not for them to damage and get lower grades. 

As of now, I don’t believe CGC has offered anyone compensation for any damages because of the warped inner wells. My five books with The Bends, not a huge issue money wise. Star Wars 1 in 9.8 that is likely no longer a 9.8… that’s going to rile up a submitter.

[DanJD]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:23 AM, MAY1979 said:

Nor do we have explanation why large submitters and influences receive premium treatment on 1975-present.

Joey recent posts prove at least to me his books are handled with extreme care while most others are not. Can't be a coincidence.

Either way, I believe he said all of his books had a warped inner well to a certain degree just not enough to cause spine ticks.  That could be because of the books submitted or mean it’s a process issue versus product.  I took his post as possible validation it is more widespread than thought. I could be wrong though.

Edited August 28 by DanJD

[LordRahl]

On 8/28/2024 at 5:51 AM, joeypost said:

A few pictures of the moderns I received back. No spine tics but each well has a very slight bend. I took a picture of the worst inner well bend. 
 

That's a bent well Joe. May be only a "slight" bend but a bend none the less. That book is being damaged by the well. Maybe not enough to cause new spine ticks to form but leave that in there for a couple years and break it out, you'll be left with a bent book which I'm guessing is not what you sent in to be slabbed. 

Of the now several hundred I've seen in hand, they are ALL bent. The vast majority (90% +) are only slightly bent and not causing spine ticks. I've said this before though, NO amount of bending should be acceptable. The fact that it is only slight in the majority is still not an OK thing. 

[LordRahl]

On 8/28/2024 at 7:23 AM, MAY1979 said:

Nor do we have explanation why large submitters and influences receive premium treatment on 1975-present.

Joey recent posts prove at least to me his books are handled with extreme care while most others are not. Can't be a coincidence.

Did you actually LOOK at the only side profile pic Joe has posted so far? 

Please show me visual evidence of "large submitters and influencers receiving premium treatment on 1975-present". So far I have yet to see any between here and other social media sites. No one has posted ANY pictures of a totally flat inner well from a modern sub that is not oversized/thick books. 

[LordRahl]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:42 AM, DanJD said:

I wonder if certain bigger submission accounts get assigned different processors.  Either way, I believe he said all of his books had a warped inner well to a certain degree just not enough to cause spine ticks.  That could be because of the books submitted or mean it’s a process issue versus product.  I took his post as possible validation it is more widespread than thought. I could be wrong though.

Can we please stop with this garbage? No one is getting different treatment. All of the books coming back are bent on modern tier.