Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 27 27

[DanJD]

Anyone get books back that are flat yet (actually received back and not someone told you they did…)?

[uncannyjames]

On 10/3/2024 at 2:56 PM, uncannyjames said:

But what if you DID contact CS and sent them photos and everything and their response was

"This curve does not cause any damage to the comic book, and it does not affect the grade in any way. The angle of bend required to create a stress line simply cannot be done within the CGC holder."

I guess I am just SOL?

@CGC Mike Seriously though, if Customer Service acknowledges the bend, but refuses to acknowledge the damage, does that mean I am SOL?

[DanJD]

On 10/4/2024 at 2:50 PM, uncannyjames said:

@CGC Mike Seriously though, if Customer Service acknowledges the bend, but refuses to acknowledge the damage, does that mean I am SOL?

Spoiler alert.  He’s going to say ask customer service and he doesn’t have any additional statements to provide.

[0r0d]

On 10/4/2024 at 12:50 PM, uncannyjames said:

Seriously though, if Customer Service acknowledges the bend, but refuses to acknowledge the damage, does that mean I am SOL?

That's basically what happened with my books.

Also, they told me that "minimal stress lines" would be fine in a 9.8.  I then very politely asked the customer support person to please ask their graders if a 1/4" spine tick would still be allowed in a 9.8.  After that they totally ghosted me and have not replied since.

But, your mileage may vary.  In any case, everyone so far that has complained about bends have gotten the same response... it wont qualify for them to reholder as a "mechanical error" because bends in the inner well are "normal".

[0r0d]

On 10/4/2024 at 12:55 PM, DanJD said:

Spoiler alert.  He’s going to say ask customer service and he doesn’t have any additional statements to provide.

Yup, it's pretty clear that CGC's strategy here is to just either say nothing, or if something is needed just deny any responsibility.  Then try to silently fix the bends behind the scenes and hope that eventually we all get tired of complaining, and the larger community either never finds out about this or just wont care.  If they can wait it out, they believe in the long run there will be no serious impact to their bottom line from all this.  It will all just blow over.

And, sadly, they might be right.  I think only a lawsuit will make them change this course of action.

[MadGenius]

On 10/4/2024 at 4:20 PM, 0r0d said:

Yup, it's pretty clear that CGC's strategy here is to just either say nothing, or if something is needed just deny any responsibility.  Then try to silently fix the bends behind the scenes and hope that eventually we all get tired of complaining, and the larger community either never finds out about this or just wont care.  If they can wait it out, they believe in the long run there will be no serious impact to their bottom line from all this.  It will all just blow over.

And, sadly, they might be right.  I think only a lawsuit will make them change this course of action.

This could happen, but time is rapidly running out. If this inner well problem still hasn't been resolved then we may pass the tipping point where the community no longer trusts that the book inside the slab matching the grade on the label (I'm pretty much there already with any slab with cert # 43XXXXXXXX or higher).

Edited October 4 by MadGenius

[wombat]

On 10/4/2024 at 1:31 PM, MadGenius said:

Interesting that CGC won't (or can't) supply the date the changeover in the inner wells happened. You would think they would have that information readily available. 

Come on man. They haven't stopped using them. That will happen when they run out of current supply. 

[joeypost]

So I decided to do some detective work in a slab I earlier posted that everyone agreed had an inner well with a curve. Not a heavy curve, but a noticeable curve. 
 

[joeypost]

After cracking the outer case I checked to see if there was any “slide” from the inner well. It was very slight, but it was there. Maybe 1/8th of an inch. 
 

[joeypost]

When I took the book out I did see a very mild bend to the well. It was mild enough that I couldn’t fit the wooden handle to a q-tip under it. The longer it laid there the flatter it got. I decided to put it back into the outer case. I noticed that it fit back in, but this time there was no wiggle room. It fit super tight. 
 

[Stuk]

On 10/4/2024 at 3:09 PM, DanJD said:

Anyone get books back that are flat yet (actually received back and not someone told you they did…)?

That is the question that should be posted each day. But in this space, where everyone knows of the problem, has anyone submitted modern books in the past 4-6 weeks to be able to answer? That is, maybe the people submitting modern high-grade books aren't on this forum and are probably oblivious. Actually, how are we supposed to know when the problem is truly resolved, at least on a "going forward" basis (every time I say that, I get sick thinking about all the books being ticked to slow deaths), since CGC presumably cannot tell us, lest it be deemed an admission that there was a problem in the first place?

Edited October 5 by Stuk

[wombat]

I've lost count now. How many times has a statement been made that the wells causing the issue are not being used any more? Has to be at least three times now. 

[Rhett Christopher]

On 10/4/2024 at 8:33 PM, Stuk said:

That is the question that should be posted each day. But in this space, where everyone knows of the problem, has anyone submitted modern books in the past 4-6 weeks to be able to answer? That is, maybe the people submitting modern high-grade books aren't on this forum and are probably oblivious. Actually, how are we supposed to know when the problem is truly resolved, at least on a "going forward" basis (every time I say that, I get sick thinking about all the books being ticked to slow deaths), since CGC presumably cannot tell us, lest it be deemed an admission that there was a problem in the first place?

I had a submission of moderns, 2023 and 2024 books that entered grading the early part of August and picked them up 2 weeks ago at my LCS. All 7 books banana, 2 with dimples around the spine on the cover with color breaking spine ticks and one other book dimple towards spine but no color break.

These books were not submitted with these defects and I took before pics to prove it.

My 2 books with the color breaking spine tick are in no way a 9.8.

My other 9.8 books do not exhibit a color breaking spine tick on the cover and do not display a dimple towards the spine due to the bend of the book in the inner well.

I showed it a discussed it with my LCS and my LCS guy received banana books back too along with my 7 books that all got graded at a 9.8 but I don't feel they are 9.8.

At least not by comparison to my other 9.8's!

[Rhett Christopher]

On 10/4/2024 at 4:20 PM, 0r0d said:

Yup, it's pretty clear that CGC's strategy here is to just either say nothing, or if something is needed just deny any responsibility.  Then try to silently fix the bends behind the scenes and hope that eventually we all get tired of complaining, and the larger community either never finds out about this or just wont care.  If they can wait it out, they believe in the long run there will be no serious impact to their bottom line from all this.  It will all just blow over.

And, sadly, they might be right.  I think only a lawsuit will make them change this course of action.

I feel a lawsuit would be years down the road and what good is it going to benefit little people like me who submit to CGC through their local LCS?

If any judgement was levied against CGC for damage - my LCS will get a $100 settlement payout and I will still be left with banana books with color breaking spine ticks graded at a 9.8. 😕

I'm not going to be made whole for damaged books and damaged books with a grade that doesn't appear consistent with previous 9.8 books I own.

[0r0d]

On 10/4/2024 at 6:04 PM, Rhett Christopher said:

I feel a lawsuit would be years down the road and what good is it going to benefit little people like me who submit to CGC through their local LCS?

If any judgement was levied against CGC for damage - my LCS will get a $100 settlement payout and I will still be left with banana books with color breaking spine ticks graded at a 9.8. 😕

I'm not going to be made whole for damaged books and damaged books with a grade that doesn't appear consistent with previous 9.8 books I own.

The main benefit of a class-action lawsuit would not be for any of us to be made whole.  The main benefit is that the general comic book community would be made aware of what CGC is doing.  CGC will only change when it hits them in their revenue.  Maybe once enough people know about this and decide that CGC and CGC slabs are not trustworthy anymore, they will change to an alternative.  And, when that happens, everyone not named CGC will be better off.  You might... might even get CGC to pay for your damages if they think it will improve their public appearance.  

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/4/2024 at 5:33 PM, Stuk said:

has anyone submitted modern books in the past 4-6 weeks to be able to answer? That is, maybe the people submitting modern high-grade books aren't on this forum and are probably oblivious.

[OJ Pimpson]

[Tnexus]

Does anyone have a pair of digital calipers that can check the thickness of the slabs? It may not be super visible, but could it be the outer plastic shell warping just a little bit on the ends which is causing the inner to warp? (The inside portion of the outer shell, not the frame.) If it's getting vacuum sucked too tight from the weld, the middle of the slab may be wider than the ends.

Edited October 5 by Tnexus

[HotKey]

class actions could take years before the public knows. 

The best disinfectant in this case is sunlight, ill just leave this unrelated link here. 

What Else Would You Call It?

[Domo Arigato]

On 10/4/2024 at 7:24 PM, joeypost said:

When I took the book out I did see a very mild bend to the well. It was mild enough that I couldn’t fit the wooden handle to a q-tip under it. The longer it laid there the flatter it got. I decided to put it back into the outer case. I noticed that it fit back in, but this time there was no wiggle room. It fit super tight. 

Thanks for doing that, joey.

If you still have everything......would you be able to trim off a small strip from the bottom of the inner well (like 1/8th of an inch) and then enclose it back into the hard outer case?  Would be interesting to see if it would lay flat if the inner well was slightly shorter.