Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[davidking623]

While I have been selling off my Master of Kung Fu's in my possession for over 2 decades it was reassuring to me there was a day CGC really had it going right .What is even even more interesting is how amazing the books are seeing them all over again but felt it it a good thing to see them go to someone younger then myself before I slowly  started acquiring them to be in his personal collection for decades , I have not submitted now for 8 years and every time I think about it I see threads like this . I am going to pursue the new company when it becomes apparent they are maybe , great , fantastic or maybe like CGC used to be .

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 8/30/2024 at 6:53 PM, davidking623 said:

there was a day CGC really had it going right

 

[Brandon Shepherd]

Well, I got one now.

Love that Joker.

 

 

 

[VinceVellCUSTOMS]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:10 AM, Brandon Shepherd said:

Well, I got one now.

 

 

 

 

Love that Joker.

 

 

 

that seems to be in the same spot of the ones I got in as well. Yours looks like a color break as well, or just the camera angle?

[electricprune]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:10 AM, Brandon Shepherd said:

Well, I got one now.

Love that Joker.

 

 

 

Was this on a personal sub, or did you buy the slab?

[Brandon Shepherd]

On 8/31/2024 at 8:36 AM, VinceVellCUSTOMS said:

that seems to be in the same spot of the ones I got in as well. Yours looks like a color break as well, or just the camera angle?

It’s a color break, it was hard to get a good photo of that detail.

[Brandon Shepherd]

On 8/31/2024 at 8:53 AM, electricprune said:

Was this on a personal sub, or did you buy the slab?

I bought the slab.

[electricprune]

On 8/31/2024 at 11:01 AM, Brandon Shepherd said:

I bought the slab.

Are you ok with it, or are you going to send it back?

[MAY1979]

On 8/31/2024 at 11:47 AM, electricprune said:

Are you ok with it, or are you going to send it back?

Nothing wrong with being OK with it, except you paid 9.8 money for a 9.4 or 9.6 book.

[Brandon Shepherd]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:47 AM, electricprune said:

Are you ok with it, or are you going to send it back?

I would love to send it back but I purchased this several months ago. I don’t recall the book being curved then, or the color breaking spine tick. I put the book away and haven’t looked it over until this morning. 

Maybe the well curved over time?

[electricprune]

On 8/31/2024 at 12:03 PM, Brandon Shepherd said:

I would love to send it back but I purchased this several months ago. I don’t recall the book being curved then, or the color breaking spine tick. I put the book away and haven’t looked it over until this morning. 

Maybe the well curved over time?

Sorry to hear that. The dollar loss doesn’t seem to be overly painful between a 9.8 and a 9.6/9.4, but the percentage of loss is brutal.

Everyone seems to be speculating still about when and how the bend occurred in the process. Was the inner well made that way, was it heat during slabbing, heat during delivery, or something different? I do think some books might slowly get worse as the air in the slab. Yours could be one of them. CGC’s scan of the book I have posted in this thread doesn’t show much wrong with the book, and there are no grader’s notes. Yet, in hand, it looks terrible.

[Stefan_W]

On 8/31/2024 at 12:22 PM, electricprune said:

Sorry to hear that. The dollar loss doesn’t seem to be overly painful between a 9.8 and a 9.6/9.4, but the percentage of loss is brutal.

Everyone seems to be speculating still about when and how the bend occurred in the process. Was the inner well made that way, was it heat during slabbing, heat during delivery, or something different? I do think some books might slowly get worse as the air in the slab. Yours could be one of them. CGC’s scan of the book I have posted in this thread doesn’t show much wrong with the book, and there are no grader’s notes. Yet, in hand, it looks terrible.

Not everyone. That part of it is a dead end to me since the amount of bend we are seeing in the slab is not enough to cause the impacts that have been shown in some of the books. I am wondering what caused the actual damage in some modern books over the past 8 months, and why that damage started appearing around the time bends in inner wells became common in modern submissions. 

[MAY1979]

On 8/31/2024 at 12:03 PM, Brandon Shepherd said:

I would love to send it back but I purchased this several months ago. I don’t recall the book being curved then, or the color breaking spine tick. I put the book away and haven’t looked it over until this morning. 

Maybe the well curved over time?

The Color BREAKING spine Tick is definitely in your pic!  It's difficult to tell if in CGC's pic (furthest below) due to them always using excessive brightness which obscures detail.

Yours




CGC's

[Brandon Shepherd]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:22 AM, electricprune said:

Sorry to hear that. The dollar loss doesn’t seem to be overly painful between a 9.8 and a 9.6/9.4, but the percentage of loss is brutal.

Everyone seems to be speculating still about when and how the bend occurred in the process. Was the inner well made that way, was it heat during slabbing, heat during delivery, or something different? I do think some books might slowly get worse as the air in the slab. Yours could be one of them. CGC’s scan of the book I have posted in this thread doesn’t show much wrong with the book, and there are no grader’s notes. Yet, in hand, it looks terrible.

 

On 8/31/2024 at 10:29 AM, MAY1979 said:

The Color BREAKING spine Tick is definitely in your pic!  It's difficult to tell if in CGC's pic (furthest below) due to them always using excessive brightness which obscures detail.

Yours




CGC's

Here are pictures I took for my registry set when I first got the book.

 

Edited August 31 by Brandon Shepherd

[MAY1979]

On 8/31/2024 at 12:29 PM, Stefan_W said:

Not everyone. That part of it is a dead end to me since the amount of bend we are seeing in the slab is not enough to cause the impacts that have been shown in some of the books. I am wondering what caused the actual damage in some modern books over the past 8 months, and why that damage started appearing around the time bends in inner wells became common in modern submissions. 

occam's razor dictates "The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct." In this situation perhaps be willing to accept that your own hypothesis may be flawed.  A good scientist is always willing to re-evaluate and be open to just because an exact explanation has not been found does not means theirs is correct.

Edited August 31 by MAY1979

[Stefan_W]

On 8/31/2024 at 12:33 PM, MAY1979 said:

occam's razor dictates "The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct." In this situation perhaps be willing to accept that your own hypothesis may be flawed.  A good scientist is always willing to re-evaluate and be open to just because an exact explanation has not been found does not been that theirs is correct.

I already threw out two of my working theories on why this was all happening because the evidence refuted them. I have cracked a dozen slabs with bent inner wells, put over 50 different type of books into them, and was not able to recreate a single tick or flaw that we are seeing. I have also included detailed measurements and shared my results publicly. 

Google correlation versus causation. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Iconic1s]

My conclusions / opinions:

1: CGC is damaging these books during encapsulation (PERIOD).  Many would not grade 9.8 with the types of breaks we are seeing, therefore it is happening after grading.

2: Perhaps the plastic of the inner well is unevenly heated during encapsulation / ultrasonic welding and is flat at that point, but it is then removed from the jig* too soon and allowed to cool at room temp, at that point due to the lack of uniform heating / cooling it warps itself into that bowl type shape all the smart guys keep talking about.

3. CGC does not really care about this issue.  They’ll just redefine the grading scale around the “acceptable” level of damage that we pay them to do to our books.

Case closed!

*device used to maintain mechanically the correct positional relationship between a piece of work and the tool or between parts of work during assembly

[lollyclown]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:56 AM, joeypost said:

While I wish that was the case, I don’t feel that I receive any special treatment from CGC. 

When I had problems with their signature series and complete garbage treatment from the senior director of the signature series, I decided to reach out to a couple of the larger resellers and collectors that have various YouTube channels etc. Spoke to one of them who submits several hundred books per year and I just outright ask them if they get really good treatment, if they get lost books etc.

He said he absolutely gets no special treatment and has to go through the same exact fights everybody else does, and he admitted that he even tried to use the "I do a lot of business with you" flex but he still kept getting referred back to basic customer service. He said at this point if he submits 100 books he expects at least one book to get lost and at least five to get damaged. He sends in high-end books one at a time now and puts max value for the insurance. He also said that he's only started running into these problems in the last year.

Edited August 31 by lollyclown
Spelling

[lollyclown]

Wow, so I decided to look over a book that I got signed earlier this year really closely and lo and behold it's got a bunch of ticks in it but it didn't have before sending it in. It was really hard to notice because of the beige color and it being a solid color but now that I knew what to look for here's what we got. There are a few more smaller ones and a couple on the back but I could not get a clear shot of them. 

I'm not even going to bother contacting them about it because I've had three books in a row since this one where I have had nothing but massive problems with them. So far I've personally submitted four books and up till just now I had problems with three of them but apparently I've had problems with all four so I'm at 100% failure rate with them. I have a lot of other slabs that I bought and they are a couple years to six or seven years old and they don't seem to have this problem. It really sucks because I have quite a few books that I was hoping to get graded, and a couple that I wanted to send in for signatures but that's not happening anymore. If I want signed books I'll get the signatures myself at conventions or buying direct from the artists and get them verified by [the company whose name is not allowed to be spoken]

 

Somebody above mentioned the potential of this turning into a class action lawsuit and yeah, that's definite possibility.

Edited August 31 by lollyclown