No comment read on the ASM #129 pages that just surfaced? 1 1

[Bronty]

On 6/18/2024 at 11:36 PM, stinkininkin said:

I guess. The old collector me, the "get off my lawn" me just laments that comic art by pretty solid but frankly journeyman artists have become valued on the basis of the IP that they illustrated and when that IP was produced, and not on true artistic merit. I get it. I'm coming at this from an artists perspective. Collectors should be able to fan however they want. I'm just here howling at the moon.

I know what you're saying, but that's always existed.   Its just more aggressive now.   The old guard isn't paying 60s Ditko Spiderman prices for 60s Ditko Charlton.    The Marvel art isn't any better than the Charlton, for the most part.     So its not a recent phenomenon.    Just turned up a few notches.

[Bronty]

I like the two Punisher pages a lot.   They will do great.  

[fsumavila]

The moment he posted, I DM'd that guy to tell him to ignore EVERY single offer he was about to get for the pages, and take them straight to Heritage (or another auction). I can only imagine the horrific offers that guy was receiving from the charlatans in this hobby.

 

[tth2]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:36 AM, stinkininkin said:

The old collector me, the "get off my lawn" me just laments that comic art by pretty solid but frankly journeyman artists have become valued on the basis of the IP that they illustrated and when that IP was produced, and not on true artistic merit.

Herb Trimpe is asking, "So what's the problem?"

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/18/2024 at 9:10 PM, stinkininkin said:

Sure, I get it's the first appearance of Punisher, but is it ok to observe that the art really doesn't look great IMHO? The seller will clearly do well with this sale, and nothing I say can change that, but man, I got into this hobby for the art (with a sprinkling of nostalgia), and this stuff, the actual art,  just leaves me saying "meh".

I really like these pages, I think they have a great assortment of vantage points in each panel (the two I'm looking at above), some subtle panel breaks that don't take away from the action (and in the 5-panel page, adds to the Spidey punch). The Punisher's black costume adds a great contrast balance - which, I am totally spit-balling here - may have led to Romita reducing the background details of the rooftops to avoid the page becoming muddy upon production. That's really my only criticism: Romita excelled at capturing the urban feel in a lot of panel backgrounds, and that is noticeably absent on these pages.

Of course, these are beyond my collecting scope and genre - I'd barely consider myself "knowledgeable" about Romita art - but I kinda thought they were aces.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/20/2024 at 4:47 PM, Dr. Balls said:

That's really my only criticism: Romita excelled at capturing the urban feel in a lot of panel backgrounds, and that is noticeably absent on these pages.

Maybe that's because he didn't work on them.

[Bronty]

yeah, Ross Andru did ASM during this time.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:59 PM, Bronty said:

yeah, Ross Andru did ASM during this time.

Never heard of him. 

[grapeape]

Twenty years ago Eric Roberts gave me a chance at one of his 129 pages. I made him an offer of $5000. I never heard back from him.  jeez I expected a counter offer. I would've been lucky to land one. 

[Nexus]

The ASM #129 cover apparently surfaced a while back. I understand there were some questions surrounding it, hence everything being kept under wraps to this point. But if that cover is legit, and it ends up getting auctioned, would these pages do better before or after that?

[eastbayrudy]

Wow as a huge Punisher fan I think those 2 pages are amazing! Would be a dream to have those on my wall! 

[delekkerste]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:37 PM, Nexus said:

The ASM #129 cover apparently surfaced a while back. I understand there were some questions surrounding it, hence everything being kept under wraps to this point. But if that cover is legit, and it ends up getting auctioned, would these pages do better before or after that?

While I wasn't told outright that it was a forgery, speaking to one of the principals about the matter fairly recently, and his very rueful demeanor talking about this piece, I'm pretty sure that it was (very quietly) determined to be a forgery and I'm going with that.  

Edited June 20 by delekkerste

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/20/2024 at 10:51 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Maybe that's because he didn't work on them.

I did say I barely consider myself "knowledgeable" about Romita art. 

Even less so about Andru. 

[The Voord]

On 6/19/2024 at 4:10 AM, stinkininkin said:

Sure, I get it's the first appearance of Punisher, but is it ok to observe that the art really doesn't look great IMHO? The seller will clearly do well with this sale, and nothing I say can change that, but man, I got into this hobby for the art (with a sprinkling of nostalgia), and this stuff, the actual art,  just leaves me saying "meh".

Agreed.

[malvin]

On 6/20/2024 at 2:51 PM, delekkerste said:

While I wasn't told outright that it was a forgery, speaking to one of the principals about the matter fairly recently, and his very rueful demeanor talking about this piece, I'm pretty sure that it was (very quietly) determined to be a forgery and I'm going with that.  

Wow.. I'm not part of the Cobol so I didn't know about this.

It's rare to have a forged published page, but not surprising as values go up.

Malvin

[thehumantorch]

Amazing pages. Owner will do well.

[Kryptic1]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:51 PM, delekkerste said:

While I wasn't told outright that it was a forgery, speaking to one of the principals about the matter fairly recently, and his very rueful demeanor talking about this piece, I'm pretty sure that it was (very quietly) determined to be a forgery and I'm going with that.  

https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/13/first-punisher-cover-hits-auction-block-valued-2-million/

There are a couple of pictures of the cover in this article from the time it was supposed to be auctioned.  That would be really disturbing if it turned out to be a forgery.  It apparently looked real enough for Fishler and Zurzulo to pose for a picture with it and publicize the auction.

[malvin]

Oh yes, I did remember this being publicly announced, then it was never heard from again. Now I know why.

 

Malvin

[Jordysnordy]

@PunisherPunisherPunisher 😂 

[gumbydarnit]

On 6/20/2024 at 7:23 PM, Kryptic1 said:

https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/13/first-punisher-cover-hits-auction-block-valued-2-million/

There are a couple of pictures of the cover in this article from the time it was supposed to be auctioned.  That would be really disturbing if it turned out to be a forgery.  It apparently looked real enough for Fishler and Zurzulo to pose for a picture with it and publicize the auction.

Thanks for the article link with pictures no less, somehow I missed this story back in the day.

Edited June 21 by gumbydarnit