Grading shenanigans at CGC? 9 9

[Poka]

On 10/20/2024 at 9:13 AM, HotKey said:

Ultimate Fallout 4 still has zero 9.9s and 10s, and people have been desperately trying for one for years.

How long until we see our first 9.9 UF4? 

we need to wait to the VIP submits? 

[LordRahl]

On 10/19/2024 at 9:39 PM, COI said:

We're both speculating here, which is fine because there's no other way to talk about this. If you end up being right, then great.

The reason I don't think they're solving the problem is that I don't see how identifying 9.9s has suddenly become more cost effective. It's possible they've figured out some way to do it, but it's just as possible, and I would argue more probable based on incentives, that they're not putting the work in to identify higher quality books; rather, they're just designating a higher number of 9.9s to stimulate the market and encourage resubmissions. 

Again, we're both speculating so I wouldn't die on this hill, but that's my perspective.

I get it and you're right, all speculation on both our parts but I do see a reasonable way this could be achieved. First they've grown a lot in the last 25 years and probably especially in the last 5-6. Remember those 1 year long TATs? The way they resolved that is by growing their workforce. But post covid submissions are down. More people, less books equals more available time per book. Also, the rule used to be 3 people had to agree that a book was a 9.9 or 10 in order to have that grade assigned. It's hard to get 3 people to agree that the Earth is round, imagine having to have 3 people agree on the minutia involved in grading a comic book. I believe now it's probably only the 1 person doing the grading that decides the grade. That introduces a higher level of human error but greatly diminishes the time involved. If I'm right, and I very well could be way off, if the human error percentage is low enough, it could work. 

[LordRahl]

On 10/19/2024 at 9:08 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

I really hope not but if you're proven correct, that will be the last straw for me. Not that CGC cares and given I'm already waiting for other options given banana-gate it might be a moot point.

[Tnexus]

I think the thing we can all take away from this is, if you submit lower tier values comics as HV or Walkthrough, your chances of 9.9 grow exponentially.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/19/2024 at 10:34 PM, Tnexus said:

I think the thing we can all take away from this is, if you submit lower tier values comics as HV or Walkthrough, your chances of 9.9 grow exponentially.

[Sigur Ros]

On 10/20/2024 at 12:00 AM, LordRahl said:

they should be grading the book in front of them to the best of their ability. That wasn't happening in the past. My take on it is that it will be happening in the future, not that their grading standards have changed

That's literally a change in grading standards.

Like....literally.

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

Thank goodness my CGC graded 9.8 comic books were always worthless.

[DanJD]

Maybe it’s anecdotal and a coincidence, but there seems to be a spike in 9.8s with color breaks.  That combined with this spike in 9.9+ adds to the lowering of grading standards argument.  I hope not though. 

I don’t care either way.  I mostly buy already graded and don’t submit much myself now because each time I do, CGC screws it up.  Takes the fun out of collecting for me.  I wouldn’t buy a 9.9+ because it’s too minor of differences and believe that if it was cracked and resubmitted, there is a good chance it would not maintain that grade. I also would hate to pay a huge premium for a 9.9 or a 10 and constantly be told by people all of the flaws they see and that it’s not actually a 9.9/10.  Ha.  If they want to award more of them, fine.  Just don’t start loosening the rest to make the grade fit and make sure it’s based on the book and not who submitted them.

I have less than 10 more 9.8s from the 80s-90s left on my buy list.  The rest are from the 60s and 70s in the 7.0-9.4 space.  I am here for the good conversation, to learn, meet people in the hobby, and maybe find a book I am looking to buy along the way.  Oh, and occasionally stir the pot for entertainment.
 

[DanJD]

On 10/20/2024 at 12:34 AM, Tnexus said:

I think the thing we can all take away from this is, if you submit lower tier values comics as HV or Walkthrough, your chances of 9.9 grow exponentially.

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought if someone submits a book in modern tier and it grades a 9.9 or 10, CGC will upgrade the tier and charge the higher cost based on FMV.  Maybe the artificial holding back of the higher grades in modern or vintage tiers is based on the pushback they would get from people getting random huge bills from CGC when expecting to pay $25 a piece.  I get that many people would be like who cares and it’s worth the cost to get that grade, but I could see many people not being prepared to pay that higher unexpected expense.  The higher tier submission is already expecting to pay those higher fees and accept the risk of over paying if it doesn’t grade out.  Just a thought.  

[WeR138]

So now the book that I sent in, that may or may not have been swapped for a book that I didn't send in,

that may or may not have been put in an inner well, that may or may not cause damage, 

suddenly, has a much greater shot at getting a 9.9.

But if I complain, I hate capitalism. 

[Homeboy32]

I don’t see this as CGC “correcting” an error in grading for the last 20yrs. I see this as CGC changing the grading standards that they’ve established for the last 20yrs. Big difference.

 Going forward they should continue grading comics like they always have been. Not making an announcement that more 9.9’s will be given, thus changing their own standards. They’re not correcting anything, just admitting they’re going to grade easier.

[Axelrod]

My concern is that it isn't simply they are now grading the way they should always have been grading, or even that they've decided to "loosen" their "high" standards for what constitutes a 9.9/10.

It's that the increase in numbers for these books will accrue primarily to CGC's special friends/prominent members of the collecting community.  i.e. Rigged game.  

Your book is going to get the same "perfect = 9.8" grading that it always did.  People like whoever submitted the order that started this thread (who is definitely some big auction house/similar) will get the lion's share of these grades.  

[Stefan_W]

On 10/20/2024 at 9:08 AM, Homeboy32 said:

I don’t see this as CGC “correcting” an error in grading for the last 20yrs. I see this as CGC changing the grading standards that they’ve established for the last 20yrs. Big difference.

 Going forward they should continue grading comics like they always have been. Not making an announcement that more 9.9’s will be given, thus changing their own standards. They’re not correcting anything, just admitting they’re going to grade easier.

That totally misrepresents the argument since it we are not discussing an error in grading for the last 20 years. CGC used to award 9.9s and 10s, they largely stopped in 2021-23 aside from bulk submissions of new books from dealers, and went back to awarding those grades in 2024. 

[D84]

[Homeboy32]

How can you say “CGC used to award 9.9s and 10s, they largely stopped in 2021-2023”? With what evidence do you make this statement that grading changed in those years??

 Look, CGC put out a statement earlier this year about the change, not in 2021. They made no mention about getting back to standards prior to 2021.

People on the boards have been submitting thousands of comics for years with only a rare 9.9 sprinkled in here or there. 
 

My argument is that there was never an error to begin with. They had a standard. They are now changing the standard. No error. Plain and simple.

Edited Sunday at 03:12 PM by Homeboy32

[skybolt]

On 10/20/2024 at 8:19 AM, Axelrod said:

My concern is that it isn't simply they are now grading the way they should always have been grading, or even that they've decided to "loosen" their "high" standards for what constitutes a 9.9/10.

It's that the increase in numbers for these books will accrue primarily to CGC's special friends/prominent members of the collecting community.  i.e. Rigged game.  

Your book is going to get the same "perfect = 9.8" grading that it always did.  People like whoever submitted the order that started this thread (who is definitely some big auction house/similar) will get the lion's share of these grades.  

I think this is the crux of it. If any of us submitted the same books using the UV tier, we would likely get 15 9.8s and 6 9.6s. if CGC wants to loosen it's grading or grade books to their original standard, it should be done across the board. Either all graders are trained to give out 9.9s / 10.0s or not none of them should be allowed to. We are looking for consistency.

[MatterEaterLad]

When I was trying to build the top Miller DD set, I chased 9.9s like crazy and they were near impossible to find. I managed to end up with five 9.9s and they were perfectly centered, razor sharp corners, straight staples with no micro tears to the spine. Bronze 9.9s are hard to get on submission, and rare to find in auctions. 

For this submitter to get that many, it's either relaxed grading or it's someone getting special treatment. BOTH are unacceptable to me. How can the dominant grading company just "adjust" their grading standards. That means they have no grading standards.

(I don't buy the "some people just know what to look for that's how this guy got so many 9.9s." Raw books in that shape aren't out there in that quantity or we would have seen them before).

Edited Sunday at 03:13 PM by MatterEaterLad

[Gaard]

On 10/20/2024 at 9:19 AM, Axelrod said:

prominent members of the collecting community. 

Now that brings back memories. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Gaard]

Your last statements (X-men 94) made me nod my head while reading them.