Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[showcase4]

"The "so what" is the whole point of this insipid thread. Platinum Age and Victorian Age books - as an investment of any kind? Ridiculously bad. There aren't any buyers for them outside of a VERY small pool of people."

 

 

 

 

Actually, if you know what you are doing, and know the market, they can be one of the greatest investments out threre. Case in point:

 

The '06 Overtsreet Price Guide references 2 recent sales for 'The Yellow Kid in McFadden's Flats'. I was involved in both of those transactions. In 2004, I bought a cover detached, about to fall apart fair 1.0 for $2,901. I spent $1,250 and had the book tied up for 13 months to have a very high level professional restoration of this key, and it came out beautiful....just stunning! I sold that book as a VF restored in 2005 for $10,500. So, in 13 months, I turned a $4,151 investment ( book price + restoration cost) into a $6,349 profit ( $10,500 sales price - $4,151 cost = $6,349)

 

The reason I was able to do that, and with confidence, is I knew the demand for the book, I know a great restoration expert, I know how to sell and market as an Ebay power seller, and I knew that $2,901 for a fair 1.0 was a good price for a YK in McFadden's Flats. It is all about expertise within your market, and experience. The ONLY real difference between my market and the SA/GA market, is when I sell, I may have just 2 or 3 buyers. When you go to sell an All American 16 or Pep 22, you may have as many 200 or 2,000 potential buyers...everything else is the same...a great comic book is a great comic book.

 

Wait, you're an Ebay powerseller? How interesting, why haven't you mentioned this before...

 

This has been mentioned several time thruought this post.

Here is my "about me" page:

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=showcase-4

[FlyingDonut]

Hard to compare 2 comic books to each other, when you think 1 of the 2 isn't even a comic book. It looks like there is long way to go for the Victorian and Platinum Age markets to get their just repsect, appreciation, and investor participation on a larger scale. What do you guys think it would take for this to happen?

 

You will never have large scale investor participation in this area (while I think there is already respect for their place in history). They will continue to be looked upon as precursors to the modern comic book. Similar to how titles like Comic Monthly and The Funnies (1929 version) are perceived - links to modern comics, but not true comics in and of themselves.

Fortunately, with the titles that you are concentrating on, their doesn't need to be any "large scale investor participation" as the rarity of the books means that you only need a couple more people like yourself to enter and see increasing prices.

Will this happen? Very hard to say. I remember buying stacks of "Victorian" era comics/books/magazines in the late 80s through mid 90s at fantastic prices thinking the same thing - only a little bit of interest needs to be shown here for these books to go up dramatically. It didn't happen then and I really don't see it happening now. It's very hard for a group of 75+ year old comics which have never been hot to all of a sudden have a surge in demand.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement here. One really doesn't need wide interest for Victorian/Platinum books to create a real niche market as with GA/SA. Just a few strong collectors. In the long term I believe these books are great investments. The more they become history, the more collectors (and I am not restricting this to comic collectors) will show an interest. And if not, so what . They are great books!

 

The "so what" is the whole point of this insipid thread. Platinum Age and Victorian Age books - as an investment of any kind? Ridiculously bad. There aren't any buyers for them outside of a VERY small pool of people.

 

No one is arguing that they aren't great books. I think Yellow Kid 1-5 are phenomenal. That's never been the point.

 

Dan, all someone needs is one buyer. When you are talking about such rare books as these, that might typically number less than 20 copies in existence, and perhaps as few as 3-5, you don't need a large pool from which to draw from. The fact is the availability of the books is especially limited. Steve's purchase of OO for $20k could turn into $35k tomorrow with the right buyer, or it might be $10k. Maybe it would be one or the other next year, or ten years from now.

 

These are subjective opinions on a speculative market that can fluctuate greatly. And all it needs is one or two new entries from a particularly bold and wealthy collector to push it forward.

 

Agreed. I just don't see that collector entering the marketplace. You're looking at the extreme niche, and there's almost no demand for them, especially for OO, which wasn't even on anybody's radar screen ten years ago. Yellow Kid? Maybe, as that's been out there for a while.

[Timulty]

Showcase, so it also seems that you are making a point here about restoration an valuation of these books. Is there much difference in pricing between restored Victorian and Platinums and unrestored?

[buttock]

"The "so what" is the whole point of this insipid thread. Platinum Age and Victorian Age books - as an investment of any kind? Ridiculously bad. There aren't any buyers for them outside of a VERY small pool of people."

 

 

 

 

Actually, if you know what you are doing, and know the market, they can be one of the greatest investments out threre. Case in point:

 

The '06 Overtsreet Price Guide references 2 recent sales for 'The Yellow Kid in McFadden's Flats'. I was involved in both of those transactions. In 2004, I bought a cover detached, about to fall apart fair 1.0 for $2,901. I spent $1,250 and had the book tied up for 13 months to have a very high level professional restoration of this key, and it came out beautiful....just stunning! I sold that book as a VF restored in 2005 for $10,500. So, in 13 months, I turned a $4,151 investment ( book price + restoration cost) into a $6,349 profit ( $10,500 sales price - $4,151 cost = $6,349)

 

The reason I was able to do that, and with confidence, is I knew the demand for the book, I know a great restoration expert, I know how to sell and market as an Ebay power seller, and I knew that $2,901 for a fair 1.0 was a good price for a YK in McFadden's Flats. It is all about expertise within your market, and experience. The ONLY real difference between my market and the SA/GA market, is when I sell, I may have just 2 or 3 buyers. When you go to sell an All American 16 or Pep 22, you may have as many 200 or 2,000 potential buyers...everything else is the same...a great comic book is a great comic book.

 

Wait, you're an Ebay powerseller? How interesting, why haven't you mentioned this before...

 

This has been mentioned several time thruought this post.

Here is my "about me" page:

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=showcase-4

 

[showcase4]

Showcase, so it also seems that you are making a point here about restoration an valuation of these books. Is there much difference in pricing between restored Victorian and Platinums and unrestored?

 

well,just like GA and SA books, unrestored is worth much more than restored in the same grade -- VF versus "apparent" VF. One difference with books from this era vs. modern comic books, is sometimes work is done for the purpose of preservation, instead of visual enhancement. In the case of the YK in McFadden's Flats that I had restored, it was done to rebuild the spine and re-attach the front cover....the restoration was 80% to fix the structual integrity of the book, with some minor color touch and small pieces added to the edge/corners for visual enhancement ( about 20% ).

You don't have to rebuild the spine on a AF15, so it's a different type of restoration.

Also, in my market, the rarer the book, the more acceptable a restored copy becomes....if you can't find it anywhere else, a restored copy is better than none at all. With that said, I have the patience to "hold out" for what I want...90% of my collection is unrestored, regardless of the age of the book ( including all 3 oldbucks--164 years old)

[october]

"The "so what" is the whole point of this insipid thread. Platinum Age and Victorian Age books - as an investment of any kind? Ridiculously bad. There aren't any buyers for them outside of a VERY small pool of people."

 

 

 

 

Actually, if you know what you are doing, and know the market, they can be one of the greatest investments out threre. Case in point:

 

The '06 Overtsreet Price Guide references 2 recent sales for 'The Yellow Kid in McFadden's Flats'. I was involved in both of those transactions. In 2004, I bought a cover detached, about to fall apart fair 1.0 for $2,901. I spent $1,250 and had the book tied up for 13 months to have a very high level professional restoration of this key, and it came out beautiful....just stunning! I sold that book as a VF restored in 2005 for $10,500. So, in 13 months, I turned a $4,151 investment ( book price + restoration cost) into a $6,349 profit ( $10,500 sales price - $4,151 cost = $6,349)

 

The reason I was able to do that, and with confidence, is I knew the demand for the book, I know a great restoration expert, I know how to sell and market as an Ebay power seller, and I knew that $2,901 for a fair 1.0 was a good price for a YK in McFadden's Flats. It is all about expertise within your market, and experience. The ONLY real difference between my market and the SA/GA market, is when I sell, I may have just 2 or 3 buyers. When you go to sell an All American 16 or Pep 22, you may have as many 200 or 2,000 potential buyers...everything else is the same...a great comic book is a great comic book.

 

Wait, you're an Ebay powerseller? How interesting, why haven't you mentioned this before...

 

This has been mentioned several time thruought this post.

Here is my "about me" page:

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=showcase-4

 

 

He got you there!

[showcase4]

 

Agreed. I just don't see that collector entering the marketplace. You're looking at the extreme niche, and there's almost no demand for them, especially for OO, which wasn't even on anybody's radar screen ten years ago. Yellow Kid? Maybe, as that's been out there for a while.

 

Fortunately for myself and other collectors in my market, virtually none of what you claim here is true.

 

1. this is not an "extreme niche"..we simlpy collect comics older than your comics...there is nothing "extreme" about that.

 

2. "almost no demand for them, especially for OO". I know of at least 2 collectors right now who would pay more than I did last year for any of my 3 copies. If I were to have an Ebay or Heritage auction...bet you dollars to donughts there would be at least 10 -15 different bidders...serious bidders. There is a strong market for the other books from this time period also....not 25,000+? collectors strong like the SA/GA market, but strong enough that there are many more dollars than there are comic books available to fill the demand.

 

3. Yellow Kid--no "maybe" about it...whenever anything decent comes on the market feauturing The Yellow Kid, it gets gobbled up immediately.

 

It's Ok if this is not for you.....but that doesn't mean its not OK for others

I don't collect Bronze Age comics, and never will...

are they therefore an extreme niche with no demand?

[showcase4]

Out of interst how much would people be prepared to pay for a VGD copy of the Brother Jonathan Oldbuck issue, either for your own collection or to flip. If you saw one in old bookstore for example, what would you risk paying?

 

Me: $1000

 

Earl.

 

This is actually a very interesting question, based on the mixed feedback regarding Obadiah Oldbuck within this post. You all know my answer, but how about you guys? Serious answers please.

[mica]

I thought this thread was over on Sunday? Why did you bump it?

[showcase4]

Why did you think it was over on Sunday?

I'm just getting warmed up!

[*paull*]

I didn't have a problem with Victorian material previously, but a mysterious hatred for the stuff has been stoked recently. I'd rather watch a 24 hour marathon of 700 Club than read this stupid thread again.

[showcase4]

I didn't have a problem with Victorian material previously, but a mysterious hatred for the stuff has been stoked recently. I'd rather watch a 24 hour marathon of 700 Club than read this stupid thread again.

 

you know, this "stupid thread" could just make you smarter as a collector

[SuperBird]

die thread, die.

[*paull*]

I collect comics only. Thanks, anyway.

[showcase4]

I collect comics only. Thanks, anyway.

 

me too....and they date back to 1842

[gifflefunk]

I collect comics only. Thanks, anyway.

 

me too....and they date back to 1842

 

*sigh*

 

Word balloons (a necessary component of turning a cartoon into a comic) wasn't part of any book in 1842. The only thing that existed in 1842 were cartoon books (at least in this country).

 

I do have a serious question: Is Yellow Kid/McFadden's Flats the first real "comic" book (i.e. word balloons instead of narrative captions)? I know it wasn't the first comic strip although it was an earliy adopter of word balloons (converting it from a cartoon strip into a comic strip in 1897).

[showcase4]

I collect comics only. Thanks, anyway.

 

me too....and they date back to 1842

 

*sigh*

 

Word balloons (a necessary component of turning a cartoon into a comic) wasn't part of any book in 1842. The only thing that existed in 1842 were cartoon books (at least in this country).

 

I do have a serious question: Is Yellow Kid/McFadden's Flats the first real "comic" book (i.e. word balloons instead of narrative captions)? I know it wasn't the first comic strip although it was an earliy adopter of word balloons (converting it from a cartoon strip into a comic strip in 1897).

 

The 1st "real" comic book is Obadiah Oldbuck, dated September 14th, 1842. The Yellow Kid in McFaddene's Flats is truly a Mega-key in the Victorian/Platinum Age market, and is just a hair behind Oldbuck with regards to historical signifigance, value, and also rarity. Oldbuck and YK in McFadden's Flats are both "comic books"...the main difference is McFadden's Flats is more like a modern comic book in that it features a key character ( The Yellow KId ), where as Obadiah Oldbuck is a major key book as it was the 1st US comic book, but does not feature a key character ( Obadiah who? ). I rank Obadiah 1st, and McFadden's Flats a REAL close 2nd as the most important/valuable/key comic books of the entire Victorian/Platinum Age era.

great question

[comicdonna]

I collect comics only. Thanks, anyway.

 

me too....and they date back to 1842

A man with a sense of humor. He may just fit in someday.

[selegue]

I collect comics only. Thanks, anyway.

 

me too....and they date back to 1842

 

*sigh*

 

Word balloons (a necessary component of turning a cartoon into a comic) wasn't part of any book in 1842. The only thing that existed in 1842 were cartoon books (at least in this country).

...

 

 

JPS

[gifflefunk]

The 1st "real" comic book is Obadiah Oldbuck, dated September 14th, 1842. The Yellow Kid in McFaddene's Flats is truly a Mega-key in the Victorian/Platinum Age market, and is just a hair behind Oldbuck with regards to historical signifigance, value, and also rarity. Oldbuck and YK in McFadden's Flats are both "comic books"...the main difference is McFadden's Flats is more like a modern comic book in that it features a key character ( The Yellow KId ), where as Obadiah Oldbuck is a major key book as it was the 1st US comic book, but does not feature a key character ( Obadiah who? ). I rank Obadiah 1st, and McFadden's Flats a REAL close 2nd as the most important/valuable/key comic books of the entire Victorian/Platinum Age era.

great question

 

Well, if you consider cartoon books to be comic books... but that is a minority opinion. Historically The Yellow Kid in McFadden's Flats has been considered the first comic book due in large part to it being the first comic strip reprinted in book form (a comic strip being different than a cartoon strip by virtue of word balloons instead of captions).

 

So my question remains (within the context of a comic vs a cartoon), is The Yellow Kid in McFadden's Flats the first comic book still or has an earlier book appeared (i.e. a book with word balloons)?