Pay Copy on Heritage?

[G.A.tor]

hello all...

I have a Mile High WW that has been slabbed (not one of the NM quality, but one of the "secondary purchased" lower graded ones), and it was slabbed PLOD, with amatuer color touch....not that it matters to me, since it is not an overly expensive book, but I did buy it raw/no resto disclosed and kept it after it was graded , simply for the provenance of the Church run (still has those bone white pages...yum!)...

that said, since I am not a resto detection expert, I do send all raw books I buy, from any source, to CGC (again, it is not so much the "number" they put on the label, although that can affect "value" in the minds of the community, and I have no problem with buying disclosed resto books, it is to confirm the nature of the state of the book)...

I have been "suprised" on more than one occasion, but as mentioned, I generally only buy a raw book from someone with the rock solid return policy (Bedrock, Metro, Payette).

I have been burned more than once buying raw on ebay, but I chalk that upto my error, for not doing my homework (hey, if it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, but tastes like chicken, well...you know).

gator

[showcase4]

that said, since I am not a resto detection expert, I do send all raw books I buy, from any source, to CGC (again, it is not so much the "number" they put on the label,

 

I only buy raw unrestored books 99% of the time....it is 'my thing'.

 

I have been doing so for years. I statistically track the outcomes, as all raw books get CGC graded eventually. No matter how much I inspect a book, trust a sellers opinion and inspection, trust my gut feeling.....about 12% have come back in PLODS...almost always due to minor glue and/or minor pro color touch ( and once pro staple cleaning )

 

Knowing the 12% factor is a virtual fact ( 1 out of every 8 books ), I can proceed with buying this way, and have peace of mind. For every 8 books I send to CGC, 1 on average will be restored and sold to me as unrestored.....knowing this will happen takes all the pressure off.......you don't get disapointed if you know something undesirable is guaranteed to happen. For the 1 out of 8 that come back restored...I VERY aggressively get a refund, even if it involves calling the police to report mail fraud, which I have had to do 3 different times on eBay transactions with unethical sellers.

 

If you only buy raw like me....it's just part of the game that you reslove to accept

as "it is what it is"

 

Steve

[stagedoorjohnny]

But, in the last 6 months or so, I've dipped my toes back into the raw market. Picked up some nice books, but they all tend to be overgraded, even from the most established dealers.

 

 

I dipped my toes back into the raw market myself just recently, purchased from a well known dealer. We'll see how it goes. I am fully expecting the book to be a lower grade than advertised by a notch or two, so that won't bother me. (large front and back scans were provided) But resto would drive me right back to plastic tombs only. It's a nice Nedor too. So when I get it in I'll share it with you, Jeff.

[tomc]

i am not a big collector, the most i have spent on a book is about $750 bucks.

i am now in a new tax bracket, so i have started to look at more expensive books.

i like raw because i can read them, cgc if i don't trust the seller.

 

but if i spend a several grand on a book and it is restored, there will be spooning murders.

 

mob style violence to anyone who knowingly sells restored books and does not disclose.

 

i can't stand a thief, but i hate liars....................

[The Black Hand ®]

that said, since I am not a resto detection expert, I do send all raw books I buy, from any source, to CGC (again, it is not so much the "number" they put on the label,

 

I only buy raw unrestored books 99% of the time....it is 'my thing'.

 

I have been doing so for years. I statistically track the outcomes, as all raw books get CGC graded eventually. No matter how much I inspect a book, trust a sellers opinion and inspection, trust my gut feeling.....about 12% have come back in PLODS...almost always due to minor glue and/or minor pro color touch ( and once pro staple cleaning )

 

Knowing the 12% factor is a virtual fact ( 1 out of every 8 books ), I can proceed with buying this way, and have peace of mind. For every 8 books I send to CGC, 1 on average will be restored and sold to me as unrestored.....knowing this will happen takes all the pressure off.......you don't get disapointed if you know something undesirable is guaranteed to happen. For the 1 out of 8 that come back restored...I VERY aggressively get a refund, even if it involves calling the police to report mail fraud, which I have had to do 3 different times on eBay transactions with unethical sellers.

 

If you only buy raw like me....it's just part of the game that you reslove to accept

as "it is what it is"

 

Steve

 

I'm curious...again....a book that has had it's staple cleaned....is that to remove rust? Or dirt? Does the staple have to be removed? Finally, if it's not for rust, then why do it? Anyone know?

[nearmint]

It's a nice Nedor too. So when I get it in I'll share it with you, Jeff.

 

Please do.

 

(Fighting Yank #7 from Metro?)

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

As someone who has transitioned from high grade Silver Age to high grade Golden Age, let me say this:

 

I won't pay more then $250 for any raw book from any seller. Period.

 

32 times bitten, twice shy, or something to that effect.

 

The same rampant manipulation that killed my enthusiasm for Silver Age was prevelant on Golden Age books long before. In fact, in my opinion (which has been reinforced by my time here on the GA Forum), manipulation and overgrading on Golden Age books is a lot more common.

 

I have a newfound appreciation for what CGC brings to the table (resto check, page count, 3rd party grading, the Census) now that I am buying more GA books. Steve and his underlings rule.

[1koko]

I think we are back to our pet peeve - disclosure and caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).

 

Never buy anything unless you are confident that the price you are paying is consistent with the value that you put on the book.

 

If you rely on CGC make sure you understand their grading standards and buy the book not the grade.

 

If you buy raw - ensure that you understand grading, ask seller to disclose what they know about the book and over and above all still check it before committing to purchase (level of checking dependent on your comfort level).

 

I buy both raw and CGC and comfort levels will determine how much I am willing to spend and level of due diligence required.

[stagedoorjohnny]

Please do.

 

(Fighting Yank #7 from Metro?)

 

Nah. I already have one of those that can't possibly be upgraded.

[nearmint]

I forgot.

 

Trade you my Exciting #30 for it.

[stagedoorjohnny]

I forgot.

 

Trade you my Exciting #30 for it.

 

No can do. But I'll trade you some dead presidents for it.

[sacentaur]

Its pretty well known that Snyder did all his "work" back in the early 80s all by hisself. Dave has been "accused" of passing along books w/o disclosed resto, but not having done any of the colortouching himself. So no one is guessing that JS touched up the MH keys, but I suppose someone else COULD have gotten to one or more of them. Hey, JS would be blamed anyway!!

 

Over the course of many years, and comparing dozens of GA comics, consistent patterns have developed. Books obtained from Anderson (and a few from Snyder) mostly ended up with undisclosed amateur resto (with black color touch being most common). This is in contrast to the books obtained from Metropolis, many of which had undisclosed resto that was always professional.

 

When confronted about this most egregious past practice, the best I could get from one was, "Well, that's the way it was back then" and a "You admit you didn't lose money (so what are you complaining about, loser?)" from another.

 

Have things improved today? I'd say yes, but there still is a long way to go.

 

STEVE

[FlyingDonut]

As someone who has transitioned from high grade Silver Age to high grade Golden Age, let me say this:

 

I won't pay more then $250 for any raw book from any seller. Period.

 

32 times bitten, twice shy, or something to that effect.

 

The same rampant manipulation that killed my enthusiasm for Silver Age was prevelant on Golden Age books long before. In fact, in my opinion (which has been reinforced by my time here on the GA Forum), manipulation and overgrading on Golden Age books is a lot more common.

 

I have a newfound appreciation for what CGC brings to the table (resto check, page count, 3rd party grading, the Census) now that I am buying more GA books. Steve and his underlings rule.

 

I think you are MOST definitely cutting off your nose to spite your face. If a seller has an ironclad return policy - and if they don't you shouldn't be buying from them - why would you possibly want to pay the CGC premium? There are several Golden Age sellers that I feel absolutely confident in buying from because they 1) back up their sales with a return policy 2) know how to grade 3) price fairly and 4) actively search for raw books.

[nearmint]

I forgot.

 

Trade you my Exciting #30 for it.

 

No can do. But I'll trade you some dead presidents for it.

 

Got a Madison?

 

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

As someone who has transitioned from high grade Silver Age to high grade Golden Age, let me say this:

 

I won't pay more then $250 for any raw book from any seller. Period.

 

32 times bitten, twice shy, or something to that effect.

 

The same rampant manipulation that killed my enthusiasm for Silver Age was prevelant on Golden Age books long before. In fact, in my opinion (which has been reinforced by my time here on the GA Forum), manipulation and overgrading on Golden Age books is a lot more common.

 

I have a newfound appreciation for what CGC brings to the table (resto check, page count, 3rd party grading, the Census) now that I am buying more GA books. Steve and his underlings rule.

 

I think you are MOST definitely cutting off your nose to spite your face. If a seller has an ironclad return policy - and if they don't you shouldn't be buying from them - why would you possibly want to pay the CGC premium? There are several Golden Age sellers that I feel absolutely confident in buying from because they 1) back up their sales with a return policy 2) know how to grade 3) price fairly and 4) actively search for raw books.

 

Donut, that may be all well and fine for low and mid grade GA, but high grade GA, which is what I collect, the premium is well worth it.

 

However, I've also noticed a different trend in GA that has me particularly puzzled. Low and Mid grade copies of the titles I collect go for over Guide much of the time, while high grade copies (often the best or 2nd best known) don't command significant premiums at all. It seems to be the exact opposite of SA and BA, where the top graded copies sell for mucho $$$ and everything else is...well, everything else.

[G.A.tor]

 

Donut, that may be all well and fine for low and mid grade GA, but high grade GA, which is what I collect, the premium is well worth it.

 

However, I've also noticed a different trend in GA that has me particularly puzzled. Low and Mid grade copies of the titles I collect go for over Guide much of the time, while high grade copies (often the best or 2nd best known) don't command significant premiums at all. It seems to be the exact opposite of SA and BA, where the top graded copies sell for mucho $$$ and everything else is...well, everything else.

 

really has to do with availability....there is probably not a single SA or BA book that is not readily available in under NM, and I would hazard a guess that supply in every grade under NM, exceeds demand, hence under guide pricing to sell...

however, with GA, there are many titles that there sometimes are not any copies available period, grade irrelevant, so when a low or mid grade or even restored copi(es) shows up for sale/auction, there is more demand than supply, and hence, stronger prices...

rick

[Scrooge]

However, I've also noticed a different trend in GA that has me particularly puzzled. Low and Mid grade copies of the titles I collect go for over Guide much of the time, while high grade copies (often the best or 2nd best known) don't command significant premiums at all. It seems to be the exact opposite of SA and BA, where the top graded copies sell for mucho $$$ and everything else is...well, everything else.

 

Yup, happens all the time. Contrary to the SA and BA market where people want and can afford top grades, in the GA market, as you know, there is demand for the books and since they are far and fewer between, low- to mid-grades are bid up due to the combination of 1) demand in low grade and 2) demand for lower price points. Let me illustrate to be clearer. On a $200 book in Fine, it's quite common to see a VG copy bring in $150 (which is a premium over guide) and a F+ copy only bringing in $220. For most collectors wanting to get that book, the difference of $70 means they can buy another book and most would rather do that than having a "nicer" copy. Many times, I kick myself for not being smarter and springing for the extra bucks and get a much better looking book at a "better" price. In fact, this illustrates the current difference I see between what October does, springing for the extra bucks and getting relative steals on nicer books, and what I do, saving the $$$ for more books.

[october]

However, I've also noticed a different trend in GA that has me particularly puzzled. Low and Mid grade copies of the titles I collect go for over Guide much of the time, while high grade copies (often the best or 2nd best known) don't command significant premiums at all. It seems to be the exact opposite of SA and BA, where the top graded copies sell for mucho $$$ and everything else is...well, everything else.

 

Yup, happens all the time. Contrary to the SA and BA market where people want and can afford top grades, in the GA market, as you know, there is demand for the books and since they are far and fewer between, low- to mid-grades are bid up due to the combination of 1) demand in low grade and 2) demand for lower price points. Let me illustrate to be clearer. On a $200 book in Fine, it's quite common to see a VG copy bring in $150 (which is a premium over guide) and a F+ copy only bringing in $220. For most collectors wanting to get that book, the difference of $70 means they can buy another book and most would rather do that than having a "nicer" copy. Many times, I kick myself for not being smarter and springing for the extra bucks and get a much better looking book at a "better" price. In fact, this illustrates the current difference I see between what October does, springing for the extra bucks and getting relative steals on nicer books, and what I do, saving the $$$ for more books.

 

Golden age is an interesting market. I noticed the relatively small price spread between a 4.0 and a 6.5 right when I started collecting and decided to take advantage of it. It's funny, golden age comics reflect the way the market should work, with small increases in dollar amounts for small increases in grade....unlike silver when a .2 difference can mean twice the price.

[Silver Surfer]

Just saw the Green Lantern #3 CGC 9.4 with white pages listed on Heritage. Any guess on the final price tag on this book?

[MrBedrock]

Just saw the Green Lantern #3 CGC 9.4 with white pages listed on Heritage. Any guess on the final price tag on this book?

 

$17,248.97 give or take a nickel.