Qualified or Crapified?

[drbanner]

Okay ladies and germs, time to voice your opinion on qualified grades on the Official Qualified Grade Poll. (And no, this poll has nothing to do with Joe's infamous "Good-" grade of a book missing ten pages .)

[Illiterati-migration]

Bug, if the book is missing TEN PAGES... if TEN PAGES are TORN or CUT OUT from the book, then it is in POOR condition. That IS the condition. "Poor." The rest of the book is virtually irrelevant as that is about as severe a defect as a book can have. Again, you all are missing the point: Comics are for READING.

A "Qualified" grade is absurd. Where does it stop? How does one decide what deserves to be "Qualified" and what doesn't? This copy of X-Men #1 that I have would be VF+ if some schmoe hadn't set his coffee mug on it and left a big brown ring on it... should that be "Qualified"?

Why do we need a special label and grade? Put on the label "Poor: 10 pages missing" (and for the acutely retarded: "AFFECTS STORY"). Why the special grade? Just for specs and grins? Why the special label color? Just a failed attempt to make an otherwise unsellable book more marketable? (Note: a "FAILED attempt")

 

And why does CGC care if a book sells after they grade it? Because if their graded books sell, then what are you going to do? HAVE MORE GRADED so YOU CAN SELL MORE! That's why they care, !

What remains of the book is in 6.0 condition. That's why the qualified label was created. I know you naysayers will scream until your lungs bleed that it's only about the bottom line.....but this book in this condition seems to be more desirable to many people than an equally graded 0.5 copy that has a split cover, mildew, brittleness, varnish and oil stains, AND pages missing. Defects which are ALL allowed "in quantity" in poor grade. I know which copy I'd prefer if given a choice.

 

It wouldn't make sense to put a "Poor" label on the book and then specify "10 pages missing". That still wouldn't tell about the condition of the rest of the book and provide vital information to people that are obviously interested in a nice copy of this book regardless of the missing pages. That would be providing LESS information......NOT more.

 

And what's the point of your last paragraph? So what? We all know CGC is a business. People are SUPPOSED to have confidence in CGC grades and want to buy CGC books. That's sort of the whole point. Hello......is this microphone even on?

 

Bug, if the "REST" of the book is in 6.0 condition (meaning THE COVER), then where do you draw the line? Why not give EVERY book a 10.0 grade with the "Qualified" label and then just note all the defects like spine stresses, folds, and rips? That would make things a LOT cleaner for specs and label-monkeys. Are YOU a label-monkey, Bug?

 

 

[drbanner]

Bug, if the "REST" of the book is in 6.0 condition (meaning THE COVER), then where do you draw the line? Why not give EVERY book a 10.0 grade with the "Qualified" label and then just note all the defects like spine stresses, folds, and rips? That would make things a LOT cleaner for specs and label-monkeys. Are YOU a label-monkey, Bug?

 

Did you respond to the Poll MK? Do you agree with the use of the Qualified grade AT ALL (for example, a NM book with a page missing)?

 

I do, and I'm not here to argue with this book should or this book shouldn't get a QG, but if you agree with the concept of QG's, then the answer to "when do you draw the line" is that it's the responsibility of the party doing the grading. If you don't, then just say so and be done with it, please...

 

Repeatedly stomping your foot while yelling "the book is missing TEN PAGES... if TEN PAGES are TORN or CUT OUT from the book, then it is POOR" and then proceeding to call people that don't agree with you , twits, specs, label-monkeys, and insufficiently_thoughtful_persons lessens the effectiveness of your argument, and frankly, makes you sound like a @$#%@.

[musicmeta]

That's a foolish statement. "Poor" is "Poor". As it stands, it wouldn't even say that, it would only say "0.5". To call a "0.5" a "6.0" because the COVER is nice is misleading in the extreme.

 

Give the full disclosure for why it gets a "0.5"... but don't polish that turd and try to tell me that it's better than it actually is because it's "Qualified." Poor is Poor. Deal with it.

Who's trying to tell you it's better than it actually is? They gave it a Qualified lable (not Universal) and stated that 10 pages were missing. The cover and the rest of the book, including the complete Spider-Man story, are in 6.0 condition. That seems to offer FAR more information about the book than simply slapping it in a Universal label 0.5 holder, even if it did mention that 10 pages were missing. That would tell absolutely nothing about the condition of the incomplete book that is there. Why not tell what the apparent condition of the incomplete book is with a qualified label and full disclosure and let people decide for themselves?

 

Why not send in just a NM cover with just 2 pages to get back a 9.4 Qualified book with XX-pages missing. Where does it end?

The AF15 with 10-pages missing is a PR .5 IMO. For God's sakes this book is

MISSING 10-PAGES.

 

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Why not give EVERY book a 10.0 grade with the "Qualified" label and then just note all the defects like spine stresses, folds, and rips?

 

Because they give it to books with a single defect that is significantly worse than all the others; most books don't have defects like this.

 

Although there is one common defect that could be present on otherwise very high grade books--subscription creases. Has anybody seen a slabbed book that is VF or better except for a subscription crease? I've been wondering whether they'd give the Qualified grade to this type of book.

[fantastic_four]

Bug, if the book is missing TEN PAGES... if TEN PAGES are TORN or CUT OUT from the book, then it is in POOR condition. That IS the condition. "Poor." The rest of the book is virtually irrelevant as that is about as severe a defect as a book can have. Again, you all are missing the point: Comics are for READING.

 

Two questions:

• Is reading the only function a comic book serves?
• Can this Amazing Fantasy 15 still be read?

[drbanner]

Although there is one common defect that could be present on otherwise very high grade books--subscription creases. Has anybody seen a slabbed book that is VF or better except for a subscription crease? I've been wondering whether they'd give the Qualified grade to this type of book.

 

I've not seen anything like that, most are "coupon/page missing", "staples cleaned/replaced", "centerfold/wraps detached", "cover detached from top/bottom staple", "Joe Blow written in marker on cover", etc.,.

[fantastic_four]

I've not seen anything like that, most are "coupon/page missing", "staples cleaned/replaced", "centerfold/wraps detached", "cover detached from top/bottom staple", "Joe Blow written in marker on cover", etc.,.

 

Other Qualified grades I've seen:

 

• Signature on cover (very common)
• Married parts (cover to interior or just one or more interior wraps)
• Sticker on cover
• Double cover, interior cover swapped with exterior cover (I've got two scans of these I could post if anybody's interested...I would've never thought to do that)

The most troubling Qualified grade is still the one I posted earlier in the thread...that Bulletman 11 seems to violate all the guidelines I've heard out of CGC so far. "Color flaking" just doesn't sound like a major, grade-wrecking defect...

[Mister_Comics]

QUALIFIED sounds more like trying to pass off some junk as brand new.

 

Lucky we're not selling cars or food of some kind. We'd all be in jail. Lucky there's no laws about this comic stuff. Give it time. This keeps up, there will be.

[Illiterati-migration]

Bug, if the "REST" of the book is in 6.0 condition (meaning THE COVER), then where do you draw the line? Why not give EVERY book a 10.0 grade with the "Qualified" label and then just note all the defects like spine stresses, folds, and rips? That would make things a LOT cleaner for specs and label-monkeys. Are YOU a label-monkey, Bug?

 

Did you respond to the Poll MK? Do you agree with the use of the Qualified grade AT ALL (for example, a NM book with a page missing)?

 

I do, and I'm not here to argue with this book should or this book shouldn't get a QG, but if you agree with the concept of QG's, then the answer to "when do you draw the line" is that it's the responsibility of the party doing the grading. If you don't, then just say so and be done with it, please...

 

Repeatedly stomping your foot while yelling "the book is missing TEN PAGES... if TEN PAGES are TORN or CUT OUT from the book, then it is POOR" and then proceeding to call people that don't agree with you , twits, specs, label-monkeys, and insufficiently_thoughtful_persons lessens the effectiveness of your argument, and frankly, makes you sound like a @$#%@.

 

You're right. I'd hate for this to drag on forever... it's not like we're talking about eliminating alpha grades or anything...

 

And I thought you had established that I was an @$#%@ a long time ago?!?! >sigh< Don't tell me I have to start all over again.

[Illiterati-migration]

And I have now voted.

[drbanner]

And I thought you had established that I was an @$#%@ a long time ago?!?! >sigh< Don't tell me I have to start all over again.

 

No, you're confusing me with someone else, back then I didn't say you were a @$#%@, I said you were a @#$%@, big difference!!

[Illiterati-migration]

And I thought you had established that I was an @$#%@ a long time ago?!?! >sigh< Don't tell me I have to start all over again.

 

No, you're confusing me with someone else, back then I didn't say you were a @$#%@, I said you were a @#$%@, big difference!!

 

Dang, well, don't I feel like a #$@*@$ing sack of $@!%^$ @#$@!%...

[shadroch]

To any and all who have responded to this thread.

If you agree with the grading given this book: Please give an opinion on the fair market value of this.

A regular 6.0 would sell for,lets say 3800, so what percent of that would you be willing to pay for this book. Anyone be willing to break the 1k barrier?

 

[drbanner]

Dang, well, don't I feel like a #$@*@$ing sack of $@!%^$ @#$@!%...

 

As you should my friend...as you should...

[Illiterati-migration]

 

You tricked me, Banner! You win this round... but I'll be back and you'll be sorry!

 

 

"We always are, Khaos." There, I saved you the keystrokes.

[Rip]

INCOMPLETE, POS BOOKS WITH 10 PAGES MISSING SHOULD NOT EVEN BE IN CGC SLABS!!!

 

Sometimes there's some harsh truth to your posts but I disagree with your statement above.

For the vast majority of books you would be right, most incomplete books shouldn't be slabbed. But when dealing with super key books, there is still some value in authenticating an original copy. As to qualified grades...I think they are a good idea when used correctly . What does "correctly" mean?? I think that's where we run into more trouble as everyone has there own ideas as to what that entails.

[garthgantu]

 

The book is NOWHERE NEAR COMPLETE. You can't assign a "grade" to a book like that. It, in my eyes, is less than "Poor." You want to start talking about just the COVER having value? Fine. Then start collecting covers... hmmm... and considering the group I'm talking to... (just kidding, fellers!)

 

The book is NOT a 6.0. The fact of the matter is that the book is MISSING TEN PAGES. It is in no way a 6.0. It is a comic book MINUS ten pages. Hell, ANY book missing ANY pages is an auto-"Poor" to me. The whole idea behind comics is READING them... not their after-market resale value, right? You want to talk about grades, then be honest and assign the grade that is due: "Poor."

 

The Major's right - this is the perfect example of a "Poor" condition comic. Anyone who would try to palm this off as something more is a crook, or a liar, or a little old granny who found it in her attic and doesn't know any better.

 

As for "what if it was just missing a panel, or half a page, or a page, or two pages...?" I would say, if it's missing more than one panel, it's at best a VG. What, you want a sliding scale, to deduct .2s by "size of area missing" ? With a separate column for differentials based on whether the missing area contained story or ad? Do we need slide rules to grade comic books?

 

How 'bout:

1) if it's missing one panel of a story, drop the grade to VG regardless of overall condition.

2) for each additional panel missing, deduct .2

3) if 10 pages are missing, send to CGC and cross fingers

[garthgantu]

INCOMPLETE, POS BOOKS WITH 10 PAGES MISSING SHOULD NOT EVEN BE IN CGC SLABS!!!

 

Sometimes there's some harsh truth to your posts but I disagree with your statement above.

For the vast majority of books you would be right, most incomplete books shouldn't be slabbed. But when dealing with super key books, there is still some value in authenticating an original copy. As to qualified grades...I think they are a good idea when used correctly . What does "correctly" mean?? I think that's where we run into more trouble as everyone has there own ideas as to what that entails.

 

As someone briefly mentioned earlier (JC, I think), the ONLY person who should/could legitimately look at this AF 15 and think "well, this is definitely in FN condition *except* for the missing pages" is the OWNER of the book.

 

I'd love to own a copy of AF 15, in just about any condition. But this, IMHO, doesn't even qualify as condition... this thing is on life support.

 

I think the whole "Qualified" concept is a brilliant CGC marketing ploy. It gets a fair number of incomplete books in the door for slabbing, and further conditions the market to "buy the slab, and the nice-looking cover, not the book." The AF 15 in question is suitable for only one thing: hanging on a wall and viewing from sufficient distance that said viewers cannot read the CGC label fine print. To borrow a line from the film Tootsie, "how do you feel about Cleveland?"

 

From where I sit in Calif., this book would look sweeeet hanging on a wall in Cleveland.

[Bugaboo-migration]

where's my Qualified?

 

Hint: It's not an AF #15...

 

I think it's pretty obvious the only person this Qualified 6.0 grade helps is the submitter/seller. Maybe he paid a ton for the incomplete book and cried to CGC?

How do you know that? His book might be a 3.5 or lower without considering the missing page and couldn't have qualified for the green label.