Jaydogrules

That's a bit off. JayDog is saying the 254K reported sales for SG 1 is just regular covers, so use the 1:100 ratio to arrive at 2500 copies. The overwhelming view is that the 254K includes regular covers, blanks, Young's, and shop and specialty variant covers. Thus, the 1:100 is applied to a much smaller actual number of regular covers. Right, my 100 K sample explains that showing how a book with only a 25-1 & a 100-1 incentive might prove him right. (about incentives not being reported as part of the print/sales runs) I wasn't agreeing to his print run estimate for Spider-Gwen 1 (which has all those other variants) but I was trying to create a reality where the incentive variant numbers WEREN'T included in the totals reported by Diamond/ICV2/Comichron. And they aren't. And my reasoning behind it is clear. Diamond does not disclose print runs of variants and comichron does not report international sales. Some have been straining to rope in loot crate numbers (irrelevant since this was not a loot crate book) and/or state "well diamond doesn't report the print runs of variants but maybe they do in bulk to comichron or something.". Wrong. NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND. Let me say it again: NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND. Variant covers have their own unique print runs and they are not reported by diamond. Loot crate is its own animal. Hence why it's got an asterisk every time. That means the book was not a standard distribution book. If Spider Gwen #1 was a loot crate book there might be a point. But it wasn't. So that point is moot. NO VARIANT FIGURES ARE DISCLOSED BY DIAMOND. The Hughes variant had AT LEAST 2500 copies printed and distributed with the MASSIVE print run of 250k+ copies of the regular cover printed, plus international. It is not rare. Deal with it. -J.

This still doesn't say what you seem to think it does. No matter how many times you quote it. -J. I guess I need a stiff drink..... This article is referring to comics that are asterisked Loot crate orders. There's a reason the asterisk is there- You're intended to take it in context with all of the other, normally reported books, and understand that there is a difference. Spider Gwen #1 was not a Loot crate order, and therefore has nothing skewing its numbers. Thus no asterisk. Apples and oranges. This isn't complicated and I'm sure you know the difference. -J. And why do you think the Loot Crate variants would be included and the other shop variants wouldn't? They are not the regular cover and they were all ordered via Diamond. I'm not a diamond insider I can't answer all of your questions. Sufficeth to say there's an obvious reason why loot crate books get asterisked out. Let common sense be your guide. -J.

Dude. Based on the reported domestic print run of 250,000+ copies of the regular cover there's approximately 2500 copies of the 1:100 Hughes variant. I was correct in my estimate of the Land variant for EoSV #2 and I'm correct on this one. It's not a rare book. Sorry. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=spider+Gwen+1+Hughes+&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=100&_udhi=1%2C000%2C000&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=200 -J.

This still doesn't say what you seem to think it does. No matter how many times you quote it. -J. I guess I need a stiff drink..... This article is referring to comics that are asterisked Loot crate orders. There's a reason the asterisk is there- You're intended to take it in context with all of the other, normally reported books, and understand that there is a difference. Spider Gwen #1 was not a Loot crate order, and therefore has nothing skewing its numbers. Thus no asterisk. Apples and oranges. This isn't complicated and I'm sure you know the difference. -J.

This still doesn't say what you seem to think it does. No matter how many times you quote it. -J.

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants. So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond? If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash. If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close. It is the regular covers only. Diamond *does not* report print runs for variants. I refer you back to recalledcomics.com which features multiple books with ballparked print run numbers that are premised on the regular cover orders for several dealer incentive variants (EoSV #2 being one of them as well now). -J. You, sir....are insane. I gave you links that explain it, Larry (a rather large retailer who actually produces store retailers), and other boardies have told you these numbers are included in the Comichron numbers. Your only argument is based on a random website that just divides the print run by the odds on the variant. That is some serious science involved in that. No one said anything about Diamond disclosing print runs for variants and I have no idea why that is one of your talking points. We are trying to tell you that the 20-25 retailers who ordered store exclusives/phantom variants/ghost variants/etc. are INCLUDED in the print run for that book in the month. These are accounts that are serviced by and produced by Diamond and ship to the retailers from Diamond. I am done talking about this because it is like talking to a brick wall. I would hope that you would do some more research and stop spreading misinformation. And again, you are still wrong. NO variant print runs are disclosed by diamond. Zero. Zilch. Nada. None. Nothing. That being the case, there is NO WAY for the print runs of the variants to be included in the comichron total. What you are seeing is the regular cover ONLY. Nothing you have linked to states otherwise and the reason you are unable to provide any applicable links is because you are wrong. First you tried to tell people this thing only had 500 copies. Now you're saying 1250. Clearly, you do not know what you are talking about, so maybe you should stop talking. And It does not matter what "kind" of variant it is, or who ordered it. THEY ARE NOT INCLUDED. For you to say otherwise is an outright lie. I'm sure you're just trying to make a buck, but I would suggest you try doing so without attempting to deceive the participants on these boards. And yes, recalledcomics.com is a well respected site. I'm sorry if ALL of the information on there disagrees with everything you are trying to say here as well, but it is what it is. *I apologize to the other readers of this post if I seem rather inflamed. But this guy really needs to just quit. His motives are just too transparent. -J. Wait... so you're telling me I can't read? That on the Cominchron Feb 2015 figs page it doesn't say "Items marked with daggers [†] include orders of more than 350,000 copies from Loot Crate." I'm pretty sure that means that the number includes the number of loot crate variants printed. If the loot crate "shop" variant was sold through Diamond US, it is indeed part of Comichrons "estimate" print run. ALL "shop" variants sold through Diamond US are included. Factoid. Jacktoid. Yup. And that's why the numbers for that ONE book are asterisked. Factoid Jacktoid indeed. -J.

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants. So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond? If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash. If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close. It is the regular covers only. Diamond *does not* report print runs for variants. You can't absolutely infer the first fact from the second, though. Diamond could still include these books in the total, and yet still have a policy of not reporting individual variant print runs. Except, they don't. No one will ever know how many copies of variants there really are for sure, either individually or as a grand total, because NONE of them are reported by diamond. Period. That is why they are ballparked based on the print run of the main cover as reported by comichron, and factoring in international orders if you have access to that information as well. -J.

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants. So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond? If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash. If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close. It is the regular covers only. Diamond *does not* report print runs for variants. I refer you back to recalledcomics.com which features multiple books with ballparked print run numbers that are premised on the regular cover orders for several dealer incentive variants (EoSV #2 being one of them as well now). -J. You, sir....are insane. I gave you links that explain it, Larry (a rather large retailer who actually produces store retailers), and other boardies have told you these numbers are included in the Comichron numbers. Your only argument is based on a random website that just divides the print run by the odds on the variant. That is some serious science involved in that. No one said anything about Diamond disclosing print runs for variants and I have no idea why that is one of your talking points. We are trying to tell you that the 20-25 retailers who ordered store exclusives/phantom variants/ghost variants/etc. are INCLUDED in the print run for that book in the month. These are accounts that are serviced by and produced by Diamond and ship to the retailers from Diamond. I am done talking about this because it is like talking to a brick wall. I would hope that you would do some more research and stop spreading misinformation. And again, you are still wrong. NO variant print runs are disclosed by diamond. Zero. Zilch. Nada. None. Nothing. That being the case, there is NO WAY for the print runs of the variants to be included in the comichron total. What you are seeing is the regular cover ONLY. Nothing you have linked to states otherwise and the reason you are unable to provide any applicable links is because you are wrong. First you tried to tell people this thing only had 500 copies. Now you're saying 1250. Clearly, you do not know what you are talking about, so maybe you should stop talking. And It does not matter what "kind" of variant it is, or who ordered it. THEY ARE NOT INCLUDED. For you to say otherwise is an outright lie. I'm sure you're just trying to make a buck, but I would suggest you try doing so without attempting to deceive the participants on these boards. And yes, recalledcomics.com is a well respected site. I'm sorry if ALL of the information on there disagrees with everything you are trying to say here as well, but it is what it is. *I apologize to the other readers of this post if I seem rather inflamed. But this guy really needs to just quit. His motives are just too transparent. -J. Wait... so you're telling me I can't read? That on the Cominchron Feb 2015 figs page it doesn't say "Items marked with daggers [†] include orders of more than 350,000 copies from Loot Crate." I'm pretty sure that means that the number includes the number of loot crate variants printed. Spider Gwen #1 did not have a loot crate order. There is a reason those are always asterisked. (thumbs u -J.

Hope yours are bring you as much joy as mine does. Awesome congrats ! Two new members in two days. Snikt, where you at ? -J.

Truce. -J.

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants. So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond? If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash. If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close. It is the regular covers only. Diamond *does not* report print runs for variants. I refer you back to recalledcomics.com which features multiple books with ballparked print run numbers that are premised on the regular cover orders for several dealer incentive variants (EoSV #2 being one of them as well now). -J. You, sir....are insane. I gave you links that explain it, Larry (a rather large retailer who actually produces store retailers), and other boardies have told you these numbers are included in the Comichron numbers. Your only argument is based on a random website that just divides the print run by the odds on the variant. That is some serious science involved in that. No one said anything about Diamond disclosing print runs for variants and I have no idea why that is one of your talking points. We are trying to tell you that the 20-25 retailers who ordered store exclusives/phantom variants/ghost variants/etc. are INCLUDED in the print run for that book in the month. These are accounts that are serviced by and produced by Diamond and ship to the retailers from Diamond. I am done talking about this because it is like talking to a brick wall. I would hope that you would do some more research and stop spreading misinformation. And again, you are still wrong. NO variant print runs are disclosed by diamond. Zero. Zilch. Nada. None. Nothing. That being the case, there is NO WAY for the print runs of the variants to be included in the comichron total. What you are seeing is the regular cover ONLY. Nothing you have linked to states otherwise and the reason you are unable to provide any applicable links is because you are wrong. First you tried to tell people this thing only had 500 copies. Now you're saying 1250. Clearly, you do not know what you are talking about, so maybe you should stop talking. And It does not matter what "kind" of variant it is, or who ordered it. THEY ARE NOT INCLUDED. For you to say otherwise is an outright lie. I'm sure you're just trying to make a buck, but I would suggest you try doing so without attempting to deceive the participants on these boards. And yes, recalledcomics.com is a well respected site. I'm sorry if ALL of the information on there disagrees with everything you are trying to say here as well, but it is what it is. *I apologize to the other readers of this post if I seem rather inflamed. But this guy really needs to just quit. His motives are just too transparent. -J.

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants. So this is the crux of the discussion, then. Is the 254K regular covers only, or is it all copies shipped through Diamond? If it's regular covers only, I suspect Jay's number is near correct, and indeed international numbers and small store orders are a wash. If it's all covers, there's a huge chunk of books in the 254K that don't qualify for the 1:100s, and carcrawford's number is likely close. It is the regular covers only. Diamond *does not* report print runs for variants. I refer you back to recalledcomics.com which features multiple books with ballparked print run numbers that are premised on the regular cover orders for several dealer incentive variants (EoSV #2 being one of them as well now). -J.

No, you are incorrect here. Diamond does not report print runs for variants. -J.

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders: Store A: 50 Store B: 160 Store C: 40 Store D: 300 Store E: 1000 Store F: 250 Store G: 70 Store H: 140 Store I: 20 That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17. You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that. Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype. No. Not 3. Fifteen percent. So, right there, you can trim the overall number down from the 1:100 ratio by 15%. And, yes, I tried to skew the numbers to larger, to account for the hype. There are many #1s where smaller operations are probably only ordering 5-20 copies. I figured 20 was probably a rock bottom guess for this book, but I'll check with my LCS, who is in fact a smaller store volume wise. No you cannot necessarily do that. And even if you did, international sales would *more* than make up for the difference. Which is why I have said (and continue to say) that 2500 is a reasonable estimate for the book's print run and possibly as high as 3000 if you factored in all international sales. You can necessarily do it. And I did. What you can't necessarily do is say the number is exactly 15%. It may be 10%; it may be 20%. What is irrefutable is the fact that there is a significant change in the true ratio. 100K copies do not translate to 1000 copies of a 1:100 variant. Is Diamond not involved in International orders? Are international orders not included in the 254K print number? International ( Diamond UK ) is NOT part of Comichrons numbers. Neither are: Overage /damage run. ( generally 3%) Comps Publisher inventory Could you please explain to Jdog that the shop/retailer exclusive variants are included in the Comichron number , but do not qualify for incentives? He refuses to accept this as a fact. He won't explain that because it is incorrect. The print runs of variants are not disclosed by diamond. Ergo, the number reported on comichron cannot include the variants. That number is the *main cover only*. Again, see recalledcomics.com for how to calculate a ballpark for variant print runs. -J.

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders: Store A: 50 Store B: 160 Store C: 40 Store D: 300 Store E: 1000 Store F: 250 Store G: 70 Store H: 140 Store I: 20 That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17. You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that. Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype. No. Not 3. Fifteen percent. So, right there, you can trim the overall number down from the 1:100 ratio by 15%. And, yes, I tried to skew the numbers to larger, to account for the hype. There are many #1s where smaller operations are probably only ordering 5-20 copies. I figured 20 was probably a rock bottom guess for this book, but I'll check with my LCS, who is in fact a smaller store volume wise. No you cannot necessarily do that. And even if you did, international sales would *more* than make up for the difference. Which is why I have said (and continue to say) that 2500 is a reasonable estimate for the book's print run and possibly as high as 3000 if you factored in all international sales. You can necessarily do it. And I did. What you can't necessarily do is say the number is exactly 15%. It may be 10%; it may be 20%. What is irrefutable is the fact that there is a significant change in the true ratio. 100K copies do not translate to 1000 copies of a 1:100 variant. Is Diamond not involved in International orders? Are international orders not included in the 254K print number? I agree with you. And my point is that after international sales are factored in, it is, more often than not, at the very least a wash. No, the number you see on comichron does not include international orders. On a book like this, the number of the print run could be 30, 40% higher after factoring those in. -J.

I can answer for Larry. No (and also thanks for looking at this with logic). How about the incentive variants? Blanks and Young's? Do they qualify as orders that get the 1:100 variants? Say a store orders: Regular SG 1: 100 SG 1 Young: 50 SG 1 Blank: 50 Do they get 1 1:100 copy or two? Also, how many store variants were there? 20? And another 10 B+W? No. Only regular covers count. I painfully know this by constantly miscalculating & missing out. ( I honestly don't know number of shop variants ) Yup. (thumbs u -J.

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders: Store A: 50 Store B: 160 Store C: 40 Store D: 300 Store E: 1000 Store F: 250 Store G: 70 Store H: 140 Store I: 20 That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17. You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that. Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype. No. Not 3. Fifteen percent. So, right there, you can trim the overall number down from the 1:100 ratio by 15%. And, yes, I tried to skew the numbers to larger, to account for the hype. There are many #1s where smaller operations are probably only ordering 5-20 copies. I figured 20 was probably a rock bottom guess for this book, but I'll check with my LCS, who is in fact a smaller store volume wise. No you cannot necessarily do that. And even if you did, international sales would *more* than make up for the difference. Which is why I have said (and continue to say) that 2500 is a reasonable estimate for the book's print run and possibly as high as 3000 if you factored in all international sales. (thumbs u -J.

No, there's no offsetting. Let's look at some hypothetical math/orders: Store A: 50 Store B: 160 Store C: 40 Store D: 300 Store E: 1000 Store F: 250 Store G: 70 Store H: 140 Store I: 20 That should capture a reasonable profile of store sizes. Total copies: 2030. Total 1:100 covers based on orders: 17. You can see how the 1:100 ratio disconnects due to the smaller orders, and, no, the larger orders are not getting 3 extra copies to offset that. Right. In your plausible scenario, the count would only be off by 3. That's why I stated that there are *approximately* 2500 copies of the variant, after also factoring in international orders, there are perhaps more. Also, this book was very clearly over ordered so there is a very reasonable chance that many smaller stores ordered more than their usual numbers because of the hype. (thumbs u -J.

I don't believe he's ignorant. Though I have wondered if he's had his heart broken by women named Harley and Gwen. -J.

Yes I read it. And it still does not say what you believe it does. Not only that, but SG #1 wasn't loot crated. The print runs on ALL variants can be calculated the same way whether it's a 1:10, 1:25, 1:100 or 1:1000. EoSV #2 had a variant as well, and that fact did not and does not alter how the print run of the Land variant is guesstimated. Loot crate may skew the numbers on some issues, but such is not applicable here. The Hughes had a 2500 run, give or take. -J.

That would put the Hughes variant at about 2500 copies. That's a rather copious amount. -J. That is 100% wrong. I am sure you are the nicest guy in the world, but you keep giving misinformation. I gave you plenty of links and information that was correct and you just refused to read it or undertand it. I guess everyone can go back and read it if they want to. The stated print run includes the shop variants that were ordered, blanks and other various junk. None of these qualify for the 1:100 variants and would leave the actual number at somewhere less than half of the amount you stated. I am sorry, but you are wrong. Recalledcomics.com is a wonderful resource that explains how to ballpark the print runs on variants. The information that you linked to does not state what you purport or believe it to state. And yes it is based on the print run of the main cover as reported by diamond. And keep in mind that diamond is not reporting international sales figures, which would obviously bump the numbers even higher potentially. 2500 is a fair estimate for the Hughes variant. Stop trying to make people think it's rarer than it is. 2500 copies is not "rare". It's perhaps "limited", but it is by no means "rare". -J. I guess it is better to remain ignorant. Good luck with your future endeavors. Snappy retort. Speaking of "ignorant".... aren't you the same boardie who originally said that the Hughes variant has only 500 copies? That this book, with an over quarter of a million main print run (that we have known about for some time), somehow had a 1:100 variant with an only 500 print run? So I see you've now revised up to 1250, give or take. You're still wrong, but hey, at least you're making progress. (thumbs u Someone asked a couple of months back what the print run on the Land variant for EoSV #2 was. I ballparked it at 2000+ based on the 50,000 or so print run being reported by diamond at the time, and the fact that it is a 1:25 variant..... http://www.recalledcomics.com/EdgeOfSpider-Verse2-Variant.php The above link, which got added earlier this month to the site, supports my original estimate on that one as well. The Hughes would be about 2500 based on comparable math. (And yes, some smaller shops will have ordered less than 100 and not have gotten the variant, but for every one of those, it is a safe assumption that a medium to large shop will have ordered a few hundred copies of the main cover and received more than one copy of the variant to offset such. Factor in international sales, and, yes, 2500 is a fair and reasonable ballpark.) I wish you luck on your future endeavours as well. *Which I'm sure involves selling a stack of SG #1 Hughes variants. -J.

That would put the Hughes variant at about 2500 copies. That's a rather copious amount. -J. That is 100% wrong. I am sure you are the nicest guy in the world, but you keep giving misinformation. I gave you plenty of links and information that was correct and you just refused to read it or undertand it. I guess everyone can go back and read it if they want to. The stated print run includes the shop variants that were ordered, blanks and other various junk. None of these qualify for the 1:100 variants and would leave the actual number at somewhere less than half of the amount you stated. I am sorry, but you are wrong. Recalledcomics.com is a wonderful resource that explains how to ballpark the print runs on variants. The information that you linked to does not state what you purport or believe it to state. And yes it is based on the print run of the main cover as reported by diamond. And keep in mind that diamond is not reporting international sales figures, which would obviously bump the numbers even higher potentially. 2500 is a fair estimate for the Hughes variant. Stop trying to make people think it's rarer than it is. 2500 copies is not "rare". It's perhaps "limited", but it is by no means "rare". -J.

That would put the Hughes variant at about 2500 copies. That's a rather copious amount. -J.

+1 Yeah man. Don't screw that book up with a Stan Lee signature. It would be completely senseless. Just my opinion of course. Welcome to the club, great looking book by the way. -J. PS: Don't get Stan Lee to sign it.

As a pure speculation, I would be inclined to agree that the median grade of those remaining in the wild would likely be a 3.5 or less. The most common grade is actually a 3.0 even now. GAtor would be far better qualified to give a more educated guesstimate I would imagine. -J.