Jaydogrules

This is actually not correct. The vast majority of copies already on the census now are lower grade. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the average grade for all blue labels as of now is 3.67, and that average has steadily gone down as more blue labels have been added over the years. The highest it ever was when the first copies started hitting 15 years ago was just 5.11. Meaning, obviously, that people are submitting lower and lower graded books on average as time goes on. -J.

Yeah, how exactly does the suit also get possessed ? I do see the one decent sale price back in December for one of those, but the two more recent ones were much lower and the seller also included TPB's with them. Still not a bad price for a raw modern variant though. (thumbs u -J.

*Ahem*....I discussed it. -J.

+1 That's also a modern looking Stan sig. It's placement looks very "CGC Signature Series-ish" to me. I'd wager it's a signed PLOD as well. Definitely one that's probably best kept raw at this point. Still a nice looking book though. -J.

-J.

Sharp copy Leroy. New addition to the sign line? -J.

Likely a former SS that somebody cracked out? Either way it would never be a blue label now so it's pretty obvious why it's being sold raw. -J.

Mmmmmmm....boobs. -J.

I didn't even know about the iron Man & FF variants. I'll have to lookout for them, us butt ugly as they are. Many of Marvel's titles were "venomized" that month. Most were silly, and on newer titles, while a couple others were also pretty cool. The FF one was also briefly hot but faded as most variants do. Perhaps the combo of being an homage/parody cover, the Mary Jane tie in, and/or the fact that it is within Venom's home title (ASM), but was under-ordered that month made this one stick and take off like a rocket. -J.

Do it! (You won't... ) You're probably right. Let's just say we live in this magical universe where I actually got $3500 for mine, Id probably still feel like I could have got more . I wish the forum let me search further back than 1 year on pm's cause I totally forgot who I sold my other 9.8 to but it was for like $400 at the time. I felt like I was getting a sick deal. $2k for a 9.4 last week. $3k for wolverine #1 Deadpool, 9.8 with two and a half times as many (9.8's) on the census. No publicly recorded sales of one in over two years. You're right, $3500 would probably be too cheap. -J.

$3500? -J.

I suspect buyers remorse, I'm thinking this book looks just like the one that sold on ebay. But maybe I'm crazy. I'm gonna get mine pressed and if it's a <=9.6, you'll see it for sale in the near future. Jerome Nope. Definitely a different copy. (thumbs u -J.

You should slab that sucker! -J.

Are the same 2 "shill" bidders bidding on all these Star Wars #1s? No. Once the book started to barely break $1500 in non-shilled auctions (and even less on these boards) everyone went to "plan b" ebay BIN's. And the legitimacy of those is nearly impossible to verify. (thumbs u -J.

In a word. No. -J. I agree. a few years down the line..if she's still relevant, then I'd say they might consider it. But movies are a very very large financial risk, so they tend to prefer established franchises that have demonstrated they have staying power. Not a dig on the character, just my thoughts. Sure. Huge risk. With a character blowing up, hundred of thousands of fans within little more than 6 months, cos players, millions of dollars spent on properties - an investment of a 100 mil on a failed comic line from the 90s is more promising Both are stretches. But some boardies on here have a pretty strong financial investment on this book. I don't want to say anything about Valiant because I don't want to see another thread on it. Same as Spider-Gwen some of you are just plain dreaming. In a few years maybe if its sustainable. A cartoon would be first I would think anyway. +1 -J.

In a word. No. -J.

why do people even do this, he won't get $13K for a comic a few weeks old. Maybe rich people drink and shop online too? All it takes is one! In an auction it would probably go for $2000- $2500. Still a fair chunk of change, but also far too much to pay for a "single highest graded copy" of any modern book that has only just begun hitting the census. -J.

$2700-$2800 would be my guess. -J.

Probably about one of the best, well reasoned, clear cut and factually supported answers as you could hope to get on the subject from someone in an uniquely informed position to respond. And it only took 40 pages. -J.

Joey I was simply paraphrasing you, as even my estimate of 3-5k would still technically be "thousands and thousands" but certainly not on the level of 20k which I believe to be pie in the sky. To address one of your points and another rfoii brought up earlier...let's look at what we see at any given moment on the market. The ratio of slab to raw is in fact the exact inverse of what many are claiming they believe the ratio to be. If there were 20k raw copies still out there that would be a 10:1 ratio, and there would be (should be) at least some semblance of that in the market, and yet there is not and never is. Not even close. Are people seriously saying with a straight face that the "only" time people slab a book is to sell? And that that is the "only" reason we almost exclusively see slabbed copies for sale? Geesh talk about abject speculation. Because no, the only people selling copies are not the owners of slabbed copies. There are raw copies hitting the market all the time. They don't hit often, but they do. Could that possibly be because there are far fewer than 20,000 of them out there? Hmmmm... And as I pointed out earlier, only about 1 in six copies available on the market right now is raw. Am I saying that this means 84% of copies are slabbed? No that's not what I'm saying. But guess what? It's just as likely that at least half have been slabbed at some point as it is that there are 20k still raw. It's also very likely that a significant number of copies have been cracked out and re-circulated and perhaps even re-slabbed. The notion that people are only hoarding raw copies is also nonsense. And wouldn't it be just as likely that people would also hoard slabbed copies? And in comparable ratios? Yes it would be. And yet we see plenty of slabs for sale all the time. The fact of the matter is, regardless of what speculation a person can divine based on anecdotes, and how many copies they might have seen at one point in their lives, no one knows what became of those copies, where they are now, or if they even still exist. All we "know" is what we all can see (and have seen) on the market. And I posit that at any given time we will be lucky to see more than a handful of available raw copies at any given moment, and, as a relatively small percentage of the slabbed copies available at the same time, not because they are "rare", but because a very significant percentage of them have been slabbed. My 2 cents. -J.

Blasphemy! -J.

-J.

Top Ten Things I have learned from this thread (Pardon the necessary paraphrasing and the Letterman homage): 1) Nobody actually "knows" anything, and polls are generally meaningless; 2) A census with a 15+ year history and millions of submissions is invalid, incorrect, and also meaningless; 3) Only "national dealers" are qualified to give opinions; 4) Greg Reece (a national dealer) has only seen one raw copy in a year; 5) Gator (a quasi-national dealer) only acquired 6 raw copies last year, which is about a 1 out of 4 ratio to the slabbed copies he acquired; 6) Neither Roulette44 nor SOT (also dealers, though perhaps not "national") believe there are "thousands and thousands" of raw copies extant; 7) The "Vi-Queens" still suck; 8) There are currently about 33 slabbed copies for sale on ebay, and 5 raw copies - about a 1 out of 6 ratio; 9) Apparently only people who own slabbed copies ever actually sell - the owners of all of the unseen raw copies evidently overwhelmingly have too strong of an emotional connection to either slab or sell their copies (not counting, of course, the 5 people trying to sell theirs on ebay at the moment); 10) Everybody knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy with several raw copies of AF 15. -J.

We call them ViQueens around here... Also noticed the poll is leading away with over 22,791 estimate. And 55% of respondents estimate about 11k or less. (thumbs u -J. It is not within the realm of reason to suggest that there are 9,000 or fewer total copies in existence, for all the reasons already laid out, yet 53 people voted for that range. The problem with the math there isn't with how reasonable the estimates are, but with the grouping that was done. I doubt Jaydogrules would accept as a statistic that over 2/3s of the votes were over 9,000 as having any validity as a measure of the poll, but it is absolutely true (67% as of right now). It all depends on where you put the 9-11,000 votes, as that's a big chunk of the vote. What I said is accurate. Nearly 55% have it at around 11k or less. Not that the poll means anything or carries any weight, but that's where it is at the moment. -J.

We call them ViQueens around here... Also noticed the poll is leading away with over 22,791 estimate. And 55% of respondents estimate about 11k or less. (thumbs u -J. Your math is off a bit. It is not within the realm of reason to suggest that there are 9,000 or fewer total copies in existence, for all the reasons already laid out. There are reasonable estimates, and there are unreasonable estimates. Reasonable estimates are educated estimates, based on experience and observation. For example: astrophysicists estimate the mass of the sun by calculating the distance of the earth to the sun, the length of the year, and the gravitational constant, incorporating what we know about nuclear fusion, the density of hydrogen, observable energy loss, etc. It is, therefore, reasonable to conclude that the sun has a mass of about 1.989 Nonillion (30 zeroes) kilograms. This, of course, is an estimate, and not precise. We can't get out a giant scale, after all, and "weigh" the sun. But it's close. It is not reasonable to conclude that the sun has a mass of "a million billion pounds!" because that wouldn't be anywhere close, even though that sounds like a lot to the uneducated. Pardon me, the exact number being 53.41614907%. (thumbs u And I agree that an "estimate" of 20k+ copies still existing in the raw is absurdly and unreasonably high and is based on nothing tangible or intangible. -J.