Jaydogrules

+1 -J.

22-25k which means if this auction pops 30k this book is still hot as fire. Final price: $32,166 What was the prior close? I forgot. Guess the gamble paid off well for the seller. It went for $30k the first time around in the prior botched auction. -J.

That is a beautiful 3.0 with great edges. I assume it had color touch that had to be scraped off to garner a blue label with those weird scratches but wow what a pretty book. How's the back? If there are no big pieces missing I think you have the prettiest 3.0 out there. I just saw the note of tape on interior cover. Probably would have graded much higher under the old rules. It depends on what defect the tape is attempting to correct and the overall grade of the book. (thumbs u -J.

I wonder if the seller will at least be able to match the $30k the first time it was auctioned.... http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=580276 -J.

Maybe he meant "$20-30k a point"? -J.

U mean this one with the relentless shill bidding going on? http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=221652606157&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565 -J.

Those are beautiful! I've been trying to get my hands on that ASM Presents Black Cat for awhile, but prices have been through the roof... Can't blame them though... Nice line up. (thumbs u -J.

I'm guessing these are pricey. Were they a 1:10? Not that pricey. Last 9.8 sale was for about $90. That is some lovely JSC busty goodness. -J.

Hopefully, those boardies looked at the inserts before submission and can tell us one way or the other. No sorry can't tell you as I bought the book already graded and I don't want to break it out. Well, I have had an ASM 100 with an insert and it was the National Diamond Jewelers insert. No way they had both. I think both are CGC errors. That would be frustrating. They can be sent into CGC for a re-holder and label correction. That is something they would not charge for since it's a QC issue. (And the books would not be re-graded.) -J.

I feel like the same conversation occurs every time a particular character's book temporarily heats up. Last one was deadpool. One before that was the guardians of the galaxy. Now it's HQ and "spider-gwen". If you can accurately predict the next one you'll be rich! -J.

Wolverine's numbers are skewed too. Lots of fuzzy animal pics. But everything can be challenged when it comes to polls and popularity contests. Hence why they are irredeemably flawed, thoroughly misleading, and largely irrelevant. -J.

With all due respect to your guys' kids, I find the methodology of interviewing children and consulting instagram and twitter to determine who "the 5 most popular characters on earth are" to be irredeemably flawed, thoroughly misleading, and largely irrelevant. But hey, that's just me. -J. I find your opinions as significant as belly button lint. Sounds like the Internets might not be the best place for you, bud. (thumbs u -J. My internet is fine, its yours that's messed up Your lack of objectivity is showing again, Junk. -J.

With all due respect to your guys' kids, I find the methodology of interviewing children and consulting instagram and twitter to determine who "the 5 most popular characters on earth are" to be irredeemably flawed, thoroughly misleading, and largely irrelevant. But hey, that's just me. -J. I find your opinions as significant as belly button lint. Sounds like the Internets might not be the best place for you, bud. (thumbs u -J.

With all due respect to your guys' kids, I find the methodology of interviewing children and consulting instagram and twitter to determine who "the 5 most popular characters on earth are" to be irredeemably flawed, thoroughly misleading, and largely irrelevant. But hey, that's just me. -J. Let me get this clear, you are saying MY childrens' opinions are "irredeemably flawed, thoroughly misleading, and largely irrelevant" Of course not. Their opinions are totally fine. It's just the methodology I find flawed, the main reason being the last sentence of your post. But kids do say the darndest things, don't they. -J.

With all due respect to your guys' kids, I find the methodology of interviewing children and consulting instagram and twitter to determine who "the 5 most popular characters on earth are" to be irredeemably flawed, thoroughly misleading, and largely irrelevant. But hey, that's just me. -J.

Take off the tin foil hat. Shilling is done ... wait for it! ... because a seller wants to make more money. That's it. To suggest shillers in general have overall market manipulation in mind is pretty grandiose. I take it you missed the most recent example of it in action, RE the MP 4/7 debacle. -J.

I love that quote. It won't turn out to be accurate in this case, though. Harley's rise in popularity has been building for a while. She'll be a key hobby fixture for years. When you look at BA 12 print and supply numbers, and use NM 98 as a measuring stick, you realize there may even be more room to run for 9.8s. Five years out, $1500 for a BA 12 in 9.8 may seem cheap. Right. "This time will be different." *yawn* -J. No. It'll be the same. The same as other characters who've become leading players in the hobby and seen the values of their first appearances rise. Think Wolverine circa 1980, Punisher circa 1986, Deadpool over the past few years ... and now Harley. There's a long history of characters becoming hobby favorites to draw from. Or....more like the same pumped up movie hype, with the same subsequent crash. The market has changed since Wolverine and the Punisher, and this book is being relentlessly pumped (on these boards) and shilled (on ebay). These are not the hallmarks of long term viability. That, and the character is rapidly becoming over-exposed. -J. Book has staying power, it's not Squirrel Girl, or Legends 3 or X-Factor 6 even, it's a bonafide key with the top five character in the planet. It's a big deal and a good book. Jim Batman Spiderman Superman Wolverine Iron Man Captain America Incredible Hulk Thor Wonder Woman Flash Joker Daredevil Archie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles "Top 5 character on the planet"? Come on dude. Cosplay doesn't count and stop acting like the book has been "selling" for $1500 for the last two years instead of two weeks. People can buy what they want and pay whatever they want but enough with the pumping and carnival barking already. -J. Bats, Wolvie, Deadpool, Spidey and Harley...that's a reasonable top 5. To put DD, Flash and Wonder Woman is kinda silly. Stop by your children's school playground one day and ask the other kids on the playground when you pick your kids up and ask around? Bet you might me a little bit surprised. I'd guessing you'll get a whole lot of DareWho? and WonderWho? Jim I think 99.99 percent of objective minds would vociferously disagree with your "top 5" and your data sampling. But I do not begrudge you your right to your opinion. (thumbs u -J.

...and I have no reason to "hype" books one way or the other because I don't sell books. As I said in the post that you originally quoted, I have called out numerous sketchy sales/listings on books I own as well. And others are free to point out other shilling that I don't. It's not as though I am scanning ebay 24/7 for scams. I keyed in on BA 12 because somebody said "8.5's are going for $400 and it won't be long before 9.8's will be $2500!". And I thought "Wtf?" and then looked and saw four consecutively shilled CGC ebay auctions for the book, with two ongoing, and decided to sound the alarm. But shilling is bad for the hobby in general, not just one book in particular. -J.

Again with trying to shoot the messenger ? I'm not sure what your implication is, but I can assure you that I have never pointed out targeted shilling on any particular book that was not easily within my reach ("presuming", as you say, of course, that I do not actually already own one). Shall I presume by your post (the relative accuracy of it notwithstanding) that you either have some books to sell, or that you are a shill yourself ? -J.

I am not saying that shilling occurs on all books all the time. What happens (and what's seen on BA 12) is a targeted market manipulation when a book seems to get "hot", that is easier to execute on more common moderns (like BA 12 and NM 98), and formerly obscure/irrelevant books with scant prior collector interest and therefore more limited prior sales data (like MP 4 and 7). Then the shilling on that particular book most certainly becomes pervasive, completely skewing the market on that book, creating false price points for the book. You seem to be placing some responsibility at the feet of prospective buyers, and I agree, buyers should do their due diligence. But the failure of a casual buyer to do that should not be a license for a scam artist to take advantage IMO. Many of these sellers have multiple ebay accounts and have the whole thing down to a science. Unsold listings are certainly relevant because we can see how many times a particular book has been listed, and what kind of bidding activity it received if it did not meet reserve. The best way to stop shilling, or at least interrupt it, is to point it out. -J.

Your opinions of my anecdotal scenario on how a shilled listing can (and does) corrupt the market on a book aside.... ....I think you just also made a very strong case for why shilling on ebay actually works, and why it is done. -J.

Raw book sales aren't reported to GPA. -J. It's a good thing completed listings on eBay are unavailable to everyone immediately and forever and GPA is the only source people are allowed to look at when trying to determine comic values. Right. I think you missed the point. But okay. (thumbs u -J. Soooo...what was the point, if not that raw listings can be shilled, too? Any listing can be shilled on ebay. Ebay listings are only visible for 1-3 months, however, so raw listings do not move the needle on a book in the same way it can be done when a CGC listing is shilled on ebay and potentially becomes a permanent data point on GPA. That can (and does) move the needle. Raw books usually reflect a trickle down proximate value that is usually a percentage of what a third party graded book would realize. Thus those sales will tend to drive and determine the raw book sales and not vice versa. Therein lies the dual incentive for shilling CGC books. -J. eBay listings are visible for 3 months. However, your contention that permanent GPA data points "move the needle" is an overstatement. Data points from 1, 2, 3 years ago have little bearing on what people are willing to pay now for any particular book when there are multiple sales on a regular basis. As well, not everyone subscribes to and/or uses GPA, even slab buyers. eBay sales history, on the other hand, is accessible by anyone with an eBay account. I also completely disagree with your contention that raw sales are driven by slabbed sales. The divide between raw and slabbed sales is quite wide, and rarely have anything to do with each other from a buyer's perspective. I am not saying that there's no crossover; obviously there is. However, it is limited, and certainly not to the extent that "raw books sell for X BECAUSE a slabbed copy sold for X+Y." Turns out Lazyboy got the point after all. Nope. Still don't think so. And I don't think you have either. Only "sold" ebay listings and the "re-lists" (the ones in green), are visible for 3 months. Unsold listings (the ones in black) are visible for about 30 days. Unsold listings can be just as informative as what sold. If not more so. And whether or not you believe raw sales are usually or typically representative of a percentage of what a slabbed copy of the same book might go for is your opinion, it is not a fact. I happen to disagree with your opinion and I suspect many would. Most even small time sellers, even those who peddle their wares on these boards, cite GPA "closed sales" in their listings. And even if they don't literally say "GPA" in their listings it is quite evident they are using it based simply on their asking price most of the time. Other sellers, who don't use GPA see what those sellers set their prices at and then price their copies accordingly. These shilled ebay sales have now affected how multiple sellers have priced their items, thus infecting the overall slabbed market on the book. Unsuspecting buyers need not have a subscription to GPA when they log into ebay and see these listings, with their bloated sales prices that have been influenced by these shilled auctions and listings on ebay. Then some of these buyers may start bidding on raw books because those appear to be "cheaper" than the slabbed listings (and they almost always are), yet they are still overpaying for that raw copy because of increased bidding competition from other buyers also looking for a "better deal on a raw book". Thus the raw book market has now been corrupted as well. It's all fruit from the poisonous tree. I feel as if this is all quite obvious already, but I did find summing it up to be a good reminder for why shilling on ebay is so toxic. (thumbs u -J.

Raw book sales aren't reported to GPA. -J. It's a good thing completed listings on eBay are unavailable to everyone immediately and forever and GPA is the only source people are allowed to look at when trying to determine comic values. Right. I think you missed the point. But okay. (thumbs u -J. Soooo...what was the point, if not that raw listings can be shilled, too? Any listing can be shilled on ebay. Ebay listings are only visible for 1-3 months, however, so raw listings do not move the needle on a book in the same way it can be done when a CGC listing is shilled on ebay and potentially becomes a permanent data point on GPA. That can (and does) move the needle. Raw books usually reflect a trickle down proximate value that is usually a percentage of what a third party graded book would realize. Thus those sales will tend to drive and determine the raw book sales and not vice versa. Therein lies the dual incentive for shilling CGC books. -J.

Raw book sales aren't reported to GPA. -J. It's a good thing completed listings on eBay are unavailable to everyone immediately and forever and GPA is the only source people are allowed to look at when trying to determine comic values. Right. I think you missed the point. But okay. (thumbs u -J.

Raw book sales aren't reported to GPA. -J.