Jaydogrules

-J.

The variants released between about 2009-2014 are mostly legit, and the Top Ten on this list in particularly are proven, enshrined modern classics. New variants didn't really turn into a spec racket until 2015, which is pretty much also when the books on this list really started blowing up. People looking for "the next" this or that. Anything printed after that, I don't even have much faith in, particularly since Marvel opened up ratios to qualifying also based on retailer exclusive variants as well. I didn't care for that move much, and it really did make it pretty much impossible to ballpark their numbers based on anything anymore. Take, for example the ghost spider 1 Lee variant. A 1:100, that is not even a year old yet, should, on paper have numbers on the census comparable to the Dell'otto 667 +20% give or take, after one year, but instead has just under 200 copies already. After just one year, as compared to the Dell'otto 667 with only ~45 after over eight years. Now granted, the Dell'otto 667 is an outlier for more than one reason, but still, 200 copies of a 1:100 after 1 year vs 45 after 8 years is remarkable, and is an example why I personally haven't been paying big money for post-2014 variants. -J.

Maybe you missed my earlier post, but the "anonymous 'Diamond rep'" specifically stated that, due to its brokerage agreement with Marvel, Diamond places its orders directly with the printer and warehouses the entirety of the books' print runs, and as such, when he was graciously researching the various Diamond item numbers that I was giving him, he was seeing and reading the exact amount of orders and print number information from his computer screen. And you know darn well that this info is closely guarded and proprietary, so you know I cannot publicly name this person, especially since his name was given to me by a boardie here. If you're not willing to put in your own leg work, and choose to ignore all of the other obvious public supporting indicators, that's your prerogative and not my problem. -J.

Holy shhhhh...man, are those all still raw, or are they slabbed and sold? -J.

You are free to do the legwork to "independently verify" for yourself. I didn't cull sources and info for you, I did it to placate my own curiosity and only chose to share for anyone else who might be interested. And the Diamond rep stated less than a standard case pack for that issue was ordered AND printed (Marvel has been printing "tight" to orders for years now, also his words from our earlier conversation, but he was "lying", right I get it ). -J.

The ASM Presents has about half the amount of slabbed copies as the SSM 20 (~150 to 300+), and appears to be slightly less historically "available". In comparison to other books on this list that gives the ASM presents an average "rarity". My own personal litmus is, while also taking the census and closed GPA sales numbers into account, are there historically 3 or more of the book "available" for sale at any given time. If it is less than 3, the book is probably pretty rare, either based on census population, availability, or both. -J.

Which one? Superior 20? Or ASM Presents Black Cat 1? -J.

Boy, is this going to ruin your day ... I put in another call to Diamond and ran through several of these ASM item codes with a few of their reps. The first three had no idea why there would be a "1" there for case pack quantity. Then I got a hold of one of the main Marvel guys over there again, gave him a few of the item codes, including the ones for the 667 Dell'otto, and the 648 Campbell colour. I had to ask my questions in a general way, because no, they do not and will not give out specific info about print runs (obviously). So, after letting him look at both the 648 colour Campbell and the 667 Hans, I asked him to look at the 667 Dell'otto and I phrased my question like this: "Generally speaking, what did it mean when Diamond coded the case pack quantity as '1'"? First, he was curious as to why I was even asking about a 10 year old book. I told him he was settling a dispute (not an untruth). While he was muttering to himself under his breath, reading through the info of the 667 Dell'otto, I told him my (Chuck's) operating theory- That there were not enough of the Dell'otto 667 ordered to fulfill an entire case pack for that issue. He said, "let me look at the orders received for that issue", paused a moment, and then said that there were "just about 200 orders for that book" (less than the 225 per case pack for that issue, hence only a "1"). Then he went back to the 648 colour Campbell saying "let's test your theory on that one", and said there were "about 400" of that one ordered (more than the 130 per case pack for that issue, hence why the number per case pack populated, "130"). After looking at a couple more things he stated: 1) Marvel does not determine how many books go per case pack, the printer does 2) Diamond used to update(s) that number once they receive the order of books from the printer, and the book shipped. 3) Diamond does not (always) do that anymore 4) He was happy to settle the dispute (really nice guy, actually). So in closing, YES, there were only a couple of hundred copies of the ASM 667 Dell'otto ordered, printed, and distributed, or, LESS than one case pack. And.. as a bonus piece of info, only about 400 of the ASM 648 colour Campbell's printed and distributed. Essentially confirming yet again and once and for all what those in the know who have followed and investigated the book for years have speculated based on all prevailing indicators. -J.

They ended the auction on that turtlemania gold.... Weird. -J.

And you literally continue to literally prove my point. Literally. -J.

If more than 2 copies sell for $1200+ in a 9.8, you betcha. -J.

And "if" a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its arse when it jumped. Still waiting to see one single constructive post out of you by the way. Literally all you do is troll. If you don't like what's being discussed here you're free to move along. -J.

You don't know what I've seen sport. -J.

It was nine. And the last copy added was Sept. 24, not this month. Given that you run cgcdata.com, I would expect for you to at least get this kind of info right. Oh and also.. Prior to this year the book averaged about 5.1 copies added per year. That means it has only been a grand total of just four "more copies" added this year (not accounting for resubs of course). Your conspiracy theory amounts to four copies. Lol. You're really reaching now dude. Now try to convince people up is down and black is white. -J.

I was going to say the same thing but lost interest at the end of my last post. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though. It's been fun. -J.

Again, nooooooo... It went from 36 to 45. And so what? There were only 3 copies submitted a couple of years ago, and the book was selling for multiple thousands then too. That's still about TWO HUNDRED COPIES LESS than the Bats 608RRP over the same 8 year period of time. Did nobody think to "slowly release" those over time, or is just the 667 Dell'otto only special for some reason lol. -J.

It doesn't matter what the book's distribution method was once it is released into the secondary market. And FYI the 667 Dell'otto was also valuable when it first dropped. Just because you never heard of it or knew anything about it before 2015 (because it is so rare, ya think?) when I first brought it to the attention of these boards, doesn't mean other people weren't hunting the book and paying $ for it. "And didn't you post a graph comparing the Bats 608RRP submissions to the ASM 667? Let's have a closer look at that comparison now. The 667 Dell'otto is now about 8 years old. In 8 full years, a measly 45 copies show on the census (we will just pretend that some of those aren't resubs and sigs to make you feel better). How many of the Bats 608RRP were on the census after 8 years ? 229. That's right, it took a book, that's also super rare and also has sold for a lot of money pretty much right out the gate, that also features a top tier character in a long running flagship top selling title, 8 years to get to that 229 number. The Dell'otto, over the same period of time, delivered less than 20% of that. Go figure." -J.

You basically just stated the reason why it goes for $25k in a 9.8, and damaged raw copies for $2500, duh! Also I love how you blew right by my 8 year census comparison for Bats 608RRP. That's fine, you can believe whatever you like. Meanwhile I'll continue to believe my.own eyes lol. -J.

These big letters still didn't answer the question lol. Diamond did know how many copies were going to be in a case pack for issue 667. You would rather ignore the information that YOU have posted than acknowledge the obvious. That's fine. Good talk. Thanks for keeping it (mostly) civil. Enjoy those "rare" barcode books. I'll be making snow angels in my rare, expensive ASM variant slab pile when I get home tonight. -J.

It's kind or sad that you believe someone who likes to talk collect and follow and discuss certain books is "hyping" them. Newsflash - I have a lot of nice and rare and extremely valuable things that aren't just comics. And didn't you post a graph comparing the Bats 608RRP submissions to the ASM 667? Let's have a closer look at that comparison now. The 667 Dell'otto is now about 8 years old. In 8 full years, a measly 45 copies show on the census (we will just pretend that some of those aren't resubs and sigs to make you feel better). How many of the Bats 608RRP were on the census after 8 years ? 229. That's right, it took a book, that's also super rare and also has sold for a lot of money pretty much right out the gate, that also features a top tier character in a long running flagship top selling title, 8 years to get to that 229 number. The Dell'otto, over the same period of time, delivered less than 20% of that. Go figure. -J.

Thanks for posting the solicits for the 678 and 688. I never claimed they were anywhere near as rare as the 667 Dell'otto, but you've proved my.point again, thanks. Lol I don't know why this is so confusing for you still. You've literally posted all the evidence to make only one conclusion obvious: When there is less than a full standard case pack order for a book, Diamond codes it as "1", and ships them individually to the few shops that qualify and actually order the book. And I will just assume that if you had a rational answer for this question- If there were 225 copies per case pack of the regular issue and the Hans variant for 667, why would Diamond send out INDIVIDUAL (1) copy(ies) of the Dell'otto if there were "400-600" printed, rather than 2 or 3 case packs ? -you would have answered it by now. -J.

Could be. You're getting closer. And I will note that there are aonly 52 of that on the census, (7 more than the official count of the 667 Dell'otto, though that number is artificially high with resubs and sigs),.and the most that book has ever sold for was $300 in 2014. Rarity does not automatically guarantee demand. -J.

Pick up the mic, because NO that isn't apples to apples, that was a store exclusive. Where's ASM 678 VenoMJ and 688 Campbell Lizard? And you're STILL not answering the question If there were 225 copies per case pack of the regular issue and the Hans variant of the 667, why would Diamond send out INDIVIDUAL (1) copy(ies) of the Dell'otto if there were "400-600" printed, rather than 2 or 3 case packs ? -J.

So this solicit didn't specify how many issues of this book came in a case pack? And? That is an example of "no information". Which is different than the information we do have of the various covers of the 667. How about apples to apples, let's see the ones for the ASM 678 VenoMJ and 688 Campbell Lizard. I have no doubt you've already looked at them and have chosen not to post them because it undermines the point you think you're making. And you still haven't answered the question If there were 225 copies per case pack of the regular issue and the Hans variant of 667, why would Diamond send out INDIVIDUAL (1) copy(ies) of the Dell'otto if there were "400-600" printed, rather than 2 or 3 case packs ? -J.

Rarity does not automatically guarantee demand. Put these same numbers in the ASM run though? Now you've got something. -J.