Jaydogrules

The guy with multiple sock puppet accounts that he uses to respond to himself and like his own posts in nearly every thread he participates in ? -J.

Huh?? Retailers are not able to RE-order (no massive quantities of originally un-ordered books laying around?, gee, go figure) when demand exceeds the initial supply, so the publisher goes to an additional printing. -J.

Oh okay, so you ARE making the cockamamie claim that publishers willfully over print books in mass quantities that no one ordered. Great, glad we got you officially on the record with that nonsense. Think I'll take the word of the Diamond honcho over you, and your cherry picked 11 year old data, thanks (sheesh, and I thought that "I" was the one who supposedly did that, lol). And quit conflating comic resellers (five below is another one) and the tiny foreign distribution market (in comparison) with what Diamond NA direct does. Doing so once again really does make you look like you are deliberately trying to deceive people. Diamond has an EXCLUSIVE BROKERAGE AGREEMENT, this is a fact, you can run around like chicken little all you like, calling publishers liars, implying evil, fraudulent, and nefarious intent, and telling comic collectors what YOU think they can and cannot do all you like. No one is listening.... -J.

What "signs" ? That's not what the diamond solicit said (or what is consistent with other books' census numbers' that actually do have that print run). -J.

You don't know where or how that one single LCS got their copy, and if there were random copies given out to tons of LCS, that certainly doesn't help YOUR argument about the book's absolute rarity, or explain why there still is a fraction of it on the census compared to other famous rare variants does it? Lol -J.

Okay so you disagree with hobby consensus and you think Image is a liar. Got it lol. Which one of us is shouting at clouds? That still doesn't change the fact that, even using any print number higher than 250 for the 667 only skews the percentages of copies submitted lower and lower, which only makes the book look even more of the outlier that it is. -J.

The announced print run of WD 100 foil was 250. The commonly accepted consensus for Bats 608RRP, wolverine 1 Campbell, siege 3, Saga 1 3rd print are all in the 400-500 range. The diamond solicit for the ASM 667 said one case pack with no more than 250. Which is all academic SINCE ALL THOSE OTHER BOOKS HAVE MASSIVE MORE QUANTITIES ON THE CENSUS compared to the 667. -J.

Lol no, but you're arguing against facts. How about a graph showing the percentages of the books' print runs on the census instead? -J.

You mean 100. -J.

You're right. But as has also been shown before, the ASM 667 Dell'otto is an outlier in almost every possible way, so most of this is not relevant to that book. And again, according to the Diamond rep, given that comichron reports actual print number within about 3%, sure you can reasonably use it to estimate numbers on variants (on the high side or course). -J.

Nice copy. Looked minty too. You still made a killing though on the sale, given the time period. -J.

Actually, it's 9, and two were resubs, not that it changes the substance of my point, and the fact that while other variants from the same time period have fully one third to HALF of their announced/estimated ~400-500 print runs in slabs, the 667 has only about 18% (an average sub rate of a measly 5.5 per year) and that's just assuming a print run of only 250, EVEN AFTER THIS YEAR lol. -J.

Absolute numbers tell the tale better than percentages, just as historical averages are more instructive than one single year (that still saw a grand total of 8 submitted, which even you must admit, is a pittance). -J.

This is interesting, and thank you for doing that, but I don't see the relevance. And why not use total copies submitted, rather than percentages? Is it because "8", is still an infinitesimal number of copies submitted IN A YEAR for a modern that has been selling for $700 in a slab since 2012? (Another interesting book to look at is the walking dead 100 red foil Lucille book, with its announced 250 copy print run and over 130 copies submitted to CGC since 2012, over HALF of the print run submitted over the same time that the 667 has been out.) -J.

Spare me dude. Your incessant trolling is tiresome. -J.

Ignoring the fact that you are attempting to disprove a fact that is already known, lol, I will indulge you in your folly for just a bit longer, and then go on about my day. -J.

No ones has called me a "data cherry picker", that's just you. You just don't like that the data doesn't support anything you've said. We won't even get into Diamond invoice that actually states how many copies of the 667 there are lol. So I will just hope that you would make a graph using the other books I mentioned, with 400-500 estimated print runs, from the same era as comparisons, instead of books from the '80s. (Sheesh! Talk about cherry picking data) -J.

Yes I know, rare modern variants and the astronomical sums they sell for bother you. I can hardly fathom why you would bother to come into the thread at all. And notice the last sentence in my last post lol... "even ignoring the Diamond solicit for the ASM 667". I used the publicly available numbers. And that's where I came up with the only 5.5 subs for the 667 per year, even after this year, which, incidentally, only raised the historical average by about 0.38. The publicly available numbers that you are ignoring, however, are the census numbers of the other, actually comparable books from the same time period that blow up your arguments. -J.

No, that is not "entirely possible" because the brokerage agreement with Diamond says that Diamond alone orders, receives, warehouses and distributes ALL of the copies ordered by Diamond and printed by Marvel. And there were 8 copies of the 667 added to the census in 2019. So what ? There were years where only 2 or 3 copies were added. The net result is still only about 5.5 copies being added per year, and this isn't accounting for the crack and resubs and sigs that I personally know account for at least 3 of those copies on the census now. Compare that with other more relevant books like the wolvwrine 1 campbell, Saga 1 third print DRS, etc from the same time period, that actually do have reported/estimated print runs of 400-500, and literally HUNDREDS of copies on the census, and you quickly realize why your arguments hold no weight, even ignoring the Diamond solicit for the ASM 667 -J.

You know I respect you, but your methodology here is inherently flawed by using TMNT 1 as a comparison. That book was published nearly 20 years before CGC became a thing, and nearly 30 years before the ASM 667, meaning that, in comparison, far more copies of TMNT 1 will have been forever lost to time before CGC was even invented, thus impacting its census numbers more than anything else, regardless of value. ASM 667, on the other hand, was published during the slab era, when any book with a scintilla of value is immediately rushed to Florida to be slabbed and sold. Far more appropriate and relevant comparisons would be other variants from the modern era with estimated/reported print runs of ~500 or less, such as the following- Saga 1 Third printing DRS, Wolverine 1 Campbell, Siege 3 Campbell, and Batman 608RRP. None of those sell near what the ASM 667 Dell'ott sells for (which, incidentally, the first time the 667 sold for more than $1000 publicly was in early 2013, not 2014) but they certainly sell for more than enough to warrant being slabbed, but how many copies of those books have been slabbed? *Hint- They all have 150-300 on the census, compared to the ~40 unique slabs of the ASM 667. That, and I've seen the Diamond solicit showing only one case pack of the ASM 667 Dell'otto shipped. -J.

Publishers are printing +3% over orders received for damages, etc. That's what he said, that's what it is. His example of "100 copies being ordered and 103 being delivered" was not in reference to a particular book, it was just an example to demonstrate the percentages. As for the ASM 667 Dell'otto, there were less than 250 copies of that book printed (or rather 200-250, depending on the amount of copies within the one case pack that was produced of it). -J.

So, to put a nice button on it... After speaking with a top Diamond rep, the following was stated and/or confirmed: 1) Diamond has a "brokerage agreement" with the publishers that allows for (but is not limited to) the following.... 2) Diamond collects the orders from retailers and Diamond tells publishers what it needs to print (as opposed to Marvel just "printing what it wants", the absolutely ridiculous scenario a few people on here have suggested); 3) The publishers ship the entirety of the ordered books' print runs to Diamond who warehouses them (so yes, an invoice or solicit from Diamond would account for all of the case packs of a book produced by a publisher); 4) Diamond is solely responsible for the allocation and distribution of those books; 5) Marvel, in particular, is and has been very "tight" with their print runs (the +~3% printing overage for damage returns/courtesy copies was indirectly confirmed by the rep through an example where he said that "if Diamond asks for 100 books, Marvel will send 103"); 6) Specific question asked by me- "So the numbers reported by Diamond to comichron are largely representative of the actual print numbers?" His pat answer- "Yes" 7) Whatever overstock inventory sales or distributions Diamond conducts are directly authorized by the publishers themselves and are limited in nature Summary- NO, publishers do not just print "whatever they want" and books that nobody ordered. YES, on rare and intermittent occasions overstock from unused, remaindered case packs of a limited quantity of books will sometimes be sold off or distributed as courtesy copies. YES, one can (obviously) reasonably use Comichron to not only ascertain print numbers, but also to estimate how many of a ratio variant for a particular book were printed (though that estimate will likely skew high in most cases). -J.

It's not close to being three years old yet, and barring one outlier apparent sale of $1200, it has been in the ~$750 range the last several months, so even if it was three+ years old it likely still would not make The Score. -J.

Yeah. It's much more plausible to believe that publishers pointlessly mass produce books no one ordered. Lol -J.

They "can" print "whatever they want", but what they actually do print is very "tight" to what is ordered and reported on comichron, according to the Diamond rep that I just spoke to that once again disputed pretty much everything you and your sock puppet accounts (and Gower) have been saying. -J.