HighStakesComics

Didn't someone on here just buy 500 Dazzler 1's?

So is it a cameo or a full? No doubt the appearance pre-dates 266.

Wouldn't OPG have to make the change before CGC? There are advisors all over these boards.

I fired one of my undercopies up for a 7-day last Sunday when this all went down. I wasn't anywhere near that aggressive in the title though and I believe I referred to it as "arguably the 1st Gambit cameo" in the description. It's about 9.2. There's been more evidence that has surfaced since then but I will leave it as is. The CGC 9.6/9.8's dictate the high end market but I'll be curious to see how it fares.

I think the price gap is largely due to the effect of: "Wow! An embossed black cover in 9.8? That must be very hard to find so I'll pay a few hundred for it.I'm sure there are plenty of copies with more than just a lone, subtle imperfection that grade out as 9.6's but a black cover book in NM/MT, I'll pay a healthy premium for that." No to say that is not entirely true but I think the black cover makes the book fall into the "tough copper key book in super high grade" marketplace, which may or may not be an accurate assessment of the book's actual rarity in NM/MT.Nevertheless, that is reasonable justification for the pricing structure. All black covers have always commanded a premium e.g. Amazing Spiderman # 28 (1st Molten Man,silver age). Nobody gives a flying fiddlestick about Molten Man.It's the black cover in grade that heightens the price so drastically. I'm not directly comparing the structural integrity of paper in a silver book to a copper book, just using this as a point of reference. I don't know, CAK. Molten Man could certainly pop up in a Spidey movie. They need to throw in a B-List villain or two to make up for the multiple A-Listers Sony has blown through in the last few most recent movies. I wouldn't be so quick to write him off.

JO 134 is a tough book in grade. Aside from 134/135 there isn't much in that run whatsoever. 350+/- graded copies isn't many for a BA book either. It will probably always command the highest price among Darkseid appearances. That said, if you want to see him in his entirety for the first time that does not occur until FP 1.

ASM 299, a Copper Age book coincidentally, has the largest cameo I've seen to date (Venom) that is not considered a full appearance. Based on my research, in order for an appearance to be considered a full appearance it must: A.) Occur over the course of more than one page of the story or 1 page + cover. B.) Include the name of the character in question. C.) The character must play a role in the story as opposed to serving as a teaser for an upcoming issue. By these standards OPG/CGC is right 99%+ of the time, but there are extreme outliers on both sides of the argument. There are books that are considered full appearances that are not and books that would qualify as full appearances that have not yet been recognized.

As collectors we gravitate towards the issue that we enjoy the most. JO 134 is the tougher book and it has a killer Adams cover. But there is no question he is not seen in his entirety until FP 1.

I tried to sell a nice set of SC 75 and Hawk and Dove 1 on here last year and all I got were crickets and a low ball offer. Glad they didn't sell! Bought 3 copies today

And people think *I'm* condescending. And, as I have said for the 10,000th time, you are misinterpreting the "Overstreet definitions", and trying to change long established conventions regarding these definitions. The OPG is a comic book price guide; it therefore follows that the definitions apply to comic books, not trade magazines, not previews, not promotional material. "A first appearance in no way requires an appearance within a story" - yes, it does, because these are comic books, which are sequential art....stories told in words and pictures. They are not photographs, posters, album sleeves, novels, paperback books, baseball cards, manuals, or anything else that ALSO comes in printed form. If it doesn't occur within a story...it's not an appearance. This isn't "preference", this is the way it has been since before I was alive, and the way it *should* be, because these are comic books. Well, that's rather petulant and contemptuous of you, isn't it? I did the work for YOUR benefit, and those reading it, to make it easier to read, and you posted that way out of spite? Now that I know that, I will refrain from engaging you further. I have no time for people who do not value it, and treat it with contempt. If you think it's acceptable to waste people's time out of petulance, you will quickly find no one here to talk to except those who don't know any better. Problem solved. and the first appearance of Darkseid is? Some may prefer the JO 134 cameo though.

Showcase 75 has been mentioned sporadically after the announcement of Hawk and Dove's inclusion within the lineup. Might want to check the SA forum for more details. The book came out in '68.

Well, I would say that at least for Apocalypse and the horseman Death (not yet Archangel, Archangel is how Warren gets rechristened a:) X-Factor 5 and 6-1st Apocalypse X-Factor 23 and 24-1st Archangel I think all 6 will see a bit of momentum in terms of price, but out of the 6 books the 15, 19 and 23 are probably the most overlooked. I'm not even sure CGC recognizes 19 as the 1st full Horsemen of Apocalypse. Until we see a longer preview it will be hard to tell how big of a role they will play within the context of the movie. As a teenager 24-25 was one of my favorite comic book battles so I must admit I am a little biased on behalf of nostalgia

In my area, I've been able to find plenty of X factor 5, 6, 15, 23, 24. Not always at the best prices (but many at really good prices), but they exist. X Factor 19 all gone all day long, and has been for a while. I just picked up a VF & NM from Chuck a couple days ago You've got to love those stock photos. I checked the census a few days ago and were only 22 X-Factor 19's on it. This might just be because no one cares, or it could be one of those $.25 bin, unbagged books that is a bit tougher to get in ultra HG. Either way, it might be a case where a well timed 9.8 could yield a nice profit with the Age of Apocalypse looming.

Good point, Sir. On that note keep an eye on X-Factor 19.

You are correct in assuming that most of us are stubborn and minds have already been made up. But don't you think in an era of encapsulated books, the majority of which will never be read that perhaps a more scholarly approach to first appearances is a necessity? For those who are interested in spreading the proverbial gospel thier best ammunition is posting a panel and letting others decide for themselves. If this chat board isn't the proper forum for such topics I'm not sure one exists.

I noticed that too. You could, however, make the argument that by referencing the 3 issues it does not necessarily mean they pre-dated the annual. If the annual did hit the shelves prior to 266 the panel I posted would serve as evidence that Gambit does indeed appear. Whether it's a full or cameo appearance is another story.

Here's the cameo from X-Factor 15. Sorry for the awful scan. Didn't want to wreck the spine.

The early X-Factors could get real interesting here as we get closer to 2016 and the upcoming X-Men movie. 3 cameo/fulls to consider: X-Factor 5 or 6-1st Apocalypse X-Factor 15 or 19-1st Horsemen X-Factor 23 or 24-1st Archangel

I'm 96.876953% sure this isn't the first appearance of anything.

Anyone care to dance?

i've got one in Sarasota that passed a 9.4 pre-screen, so here's to dreams of 9.6 9.8

I can buy into that. Thank you.

Apparently it has to be an in story appearance to count as a true first appearance. Pin ups and ads don't count. Previews don't count. That being said, it probably still has value, if the right collectors are aware of it. So what if the preview itself is a story? I'm talking DCP #26 and New Teen Titans #16. And if so, would Walking Dead 127 fall into the same category? Are these the 1st apps of the New Teen Titans, Captain Carrot and Outcast? I apologize for bringing a modern into the discussion but it's a pretty good example.