onlyweaknesskryptonite

On 10/13/2019 at 7:31 PM, greggy said:

That Preacher #1 Preview!   

If you really want the best shot at a 10. Call up the printers for Batman Damned have them privately print about 1,000+ of your own comic where the cover is your cgc submission form pre filled out and have them shipped directly to cgc .

15 minutes ago, romanheart said:

The quality of the process for making a book is pretty impressive for moderns as opposed to the days of pulp. If you buy a 100 unread books and submitted them all, wouldn't you get at least one 9.9?

Only if they are Lady Death or Batman Damned.

All I want to know is , " what's in the water?" Seems almost ever other thread I have been seeing as of late has had this same discussion going round and round... you know what you can not find in the wild? A definitive answer... so what will I do? Post some more debatable "rarity" Newsstand books! 

yeah the adventures is lower grade, but they threw it in when I bought the 75 3rd for $2..

58 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

No problem.  Great research! Thanks for doing the legwork that I was too lazy to do.  

-J.

It's all good. When you said it I remembered seeing other versions as well, but never really look at the complete content and print date. I have always liked some of the foreign Variants.  Unfortunately I only speak English so for me these were seeing the difference art and production companies and methods that got my attention.  I have noticed several including this that I collected for the cover art , and didn't think to actually fully research it. Just following that age old, " Collect what you like and you can't go wrong.. maybe broke, but not wrong.." and on that note will get the thread back on track with another amazing foreign Dell'otto Variant it really takes a few different angles to capture the awesomeness of the way they did the multiple layers of foil for this cover!

47 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

There is a German version of the center one too...

I'm just not sure if that's considered a "reprint" of the French version of the same cover. 

-J.

After more research it appears you were correct . So far I have found (newest to oldest) 

Batman #1 Foil Boston Fan Expo 2019

( contains reprint Batman#1)

Front

Back

Batman/Superman #7 French 2008

(Contains stories from Action Comics #843, Superman #657, Detective Comics #823, Batman #657 ) 

Front

Back

Batman One Shots  German 2005

Hard Cover ( Contains One Shot Stories: Batman : The Man Who Laughs Last, Batman/Joker :Switch ,  Batman/Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows.)

Front

Back couldn't find an image. 

Batman : Die Akten DC Premium # 38  2005 

Front

Back

 from what I have found , so far the 2005 seems to be the earliest use of this cover and it is Panini and German. Although both of these German editions appear to be more like TPB and thicker (almost 1/2") the French Variant is a little less than 1/4" and has glued cover like slim tpb or prestige , and the newest is a foil cover modern . Thank you for pointing that out! I learned this art/cover had been used more times than I realized. 

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

All three of these were originally published in Germany, I believe.  I really like the knee on the right too.

-J.

They were all done by DC through Panini,  but the Batman/Superman # 7 (center) originally was a French Variant. Although this reprint is a cover swipe from that issue done now in foil , and has an interior reprint of Batman #1, where the original was Batman/Superman #7 in French and Different Back cover. Still all are awesome examples of Dell'otto cover art.

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And the sad thing is...none of these people are ever held to account.

I have been buying a certain "1 of 100" variant for many years now. I have 40 copies. I've always wondered if they were actually limited to 100, as the publisher claims, or if they made more. You would think that, for an edition specifically limited to 100, they would print 120 or so, pick out the acceptable copies, and destroy the rest so that it's an actual "1 of 100."

But I would be very naive to imagine that's actually the case. Books that are limited to 100, with a pretty decent following, should be a lot harder to find than some of them are. 

I completely agree. This is what made me sell off a TON of my non sports cards. Was the realization that a lot of the numbers didn't add up. Several of those I had acquired were more than there officially stated print distribution.  On top of many uncut sheets and mid print run sheets that too were "never distributed" , yet here they were.. so once I came to that realization I didn't trust them to hold their value.  Several times during the initial sell off,  I watched the value just drop. Same with some of the comics "retailers limited numbers" 1:100.. those have worried me the same. That's retailers distribution numbers which most know mean for every 100 the retailers order they get 1.. that isn't to say they didn't print 5 or 10 to 1 just incase of error, damage (both in house and transit/return) as well as overages,  press reviews/ previews, review copies, distributor copies, company copies, promotional (cons/give away) copies,  etc.. I have just been waiting for a comic to break that mark where the number of graded comics is more than stated print distribution. Congratulations on the 40 of 100! You might be the one to break the number.. 

I also ran into the same issues with non sports cards when I collected those long ago.. that the printers or distributors would have uncut sheets and/or rare inserts/promos/ signature cards either leave magically after the prices went up or where employees would take some from the line outside of "total released officially " and flood the market. Making some realize they had actually printed more than they stated,but held onto them.

That is also some of the issues I have with these "manufactured" numbers. They say the have a rare  1:100 or higher book yet we that is not really saying how many were printed.  Even those that state only so many were printed (think foreign Panini , Dino , or US RRPs) where they state only 800 examples or 250 in the case of the Superman Wedding RRP there has been evidence that even those may not be completely factual.  I have and have seen several that are not numbered in these or in other cases PP ( Printers Proof) That are in addition to subsequent numbers . On top of that they had to print more to obtain the actual print run for errors/damage and have seen where these still make it into circulation.  So it's a guess as to how many of any book are actually "out there" or were printed to begin with. Sort of actually obtaining real print data directly from the printers. Here are some examples:

Superman #75 no printed number on back of book

Batman/Superman #4 PP/50 

Batman Museum Edition (not numbered)

just to show a few..

1 hour ago, paqart said:

How do cover variants factor into overall print run? Are they counted as part of direct run, without distinguishing covers? How do cover variant prices compare to counterpart newsstand prices?

This seems to be some of everyone's concern and issues with determining real numbers as they do not seem to offer in detail from the printers or even order numbers.  Say for example DC wanted 100,000 of a book printed and they have a 1:10 , 1:50, 1:100, 1:500 Variants. It seems to be unknown if those were printed in addition to the total of part of it. Meaning if in addition to they actually printed a total of 113,200 books. On top of that say 30% were printed for Newsstand,  again would they take those from the 100,000 or in addition and how many of those were returned? All of this is what many have speculated on and is why you see numbers all over the place. Without factual data from the printers it is hard to determine any true data. More modern books with the different prices have actually started to be broken out more on the CGC data which helps shed some light on what's been graded, but no real way to determine how many were printed and if this was + or - total print run.

5 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Still you think that there would be "a way" somehow

I'm sure this is not the first time that they've run into this kind of "issue" before, and if there WAS a way they'd have done it before now. 

I guess your right in the fact the ball is in CGC's court. Perhaps if labeled, then GPA could have a more automated way of distinguishing.

I won't begin to think how it'll all come about, I just hope there is some kind of resolution. This would make it more prevalent if it was noticed, but I don't think that newsstands are quite main stream enough yet....

I have to agree. Something needs to be done to address these issues and ideally CGC would just break out every distinction for each book as they are different in some way or another (as with print errors) for now a decent work around for GPA would be something they already have somewhat in place. There system for outliers.  If a book sells for an extremely high or low price they hold to determine if new prices are set or if it was just a " one off" when a book flags this they could seperate them into a review folder and determine if it was something that caused this increase.  Such as a Newsstand,  Variant, or other factor and break it out as well.

6 hours ago, rogue14 said:

Didn’t know there was a foil for this cover. Need to keep an eye out. Thanks for mentioning it!

Your welcome. Its new. Was released for the Boston Fan Expo and came individually or a 3 different cover set all contained reprint interior of Batman #1

I do not know who at their customer service you are emailing,  but from most I have talked with the only person who has been any help and actually listened to the issues has been Brittany.  If you haven't already emailed her directly  I would try that. I believe  her email is: 

  bmcmanus@cgccomics.com

I knew you were joking.  Just wanted to make sure that anyone else reading it was clear. I have always tried to be fair and make sure that I treat other fellow collectors the way I would want to be treated + full disclosure on any items.  Somewhere earlier in this thread someone mentioned contacting Brittany for issues related to NR and that may be your best bet at getting this resolved.  I really hope that it comes back clear as this is one of the harder to find issues of the series.  Glad you are happy and can't wait to see that set your building! 

But to get back on track. The Foil Edition Variant Batman #1

( cover swipe from his French Superman/Batman #7)

Hoagies and Grinders...

14 minutes ago, Iconic1s said:

Hey!  That's not what you said when you sold it to me!! 

Put this in the mail today to get reslabbed.  Asked about free reholdering last week and but never heard back.  I couldn't wait... was worried about getting hair all over all of my other stuff.

Let's be fair here.. I did disclosed all of its issues and even told you about this topic I created specifically about the book so you could see and judge for yourself as well as offer a choice between this and another copy. Wouldn't want anyone to think I was less than honest about any of my transactions. I am glad it found a good home. It sucks to hear they didn't get back to you about the reholder. I hope it comes back better than what they did to it. Although if enough hair gets into it could be a rare " Addams Family  cousin IT edition" or maybe a CGC DNA pedigree... 

You would think that a tie in points would still default to who had their set on the registry first.

And the only set I still have yet to find ( images borrowed from another board member)

One thing at least a lot of these later printings can be found together in the boxed sets. Just finding them and in good condition can be the challenge 

36 minutes ago, Brandon Shepherd said:

There is also a DCU variant. 

 Yes. There are several in this run. (KnightFall, KnightQuest KinghtsEnd)  Some of the other rare and HTF versions of the DC Universe., but specifically in the Shadow of the Bat #38 is really tough to find.

19 minutes ago, Brandon Shepherd said:

Wow, I can’t search for on eBay! I was searching “Batman: Shadow of the Bat #30 Second Printing”.

I’m glad it’s real, now I’ll have to add it to my list.

When searching, both Ebay and online, I usually go as general as possible.  I know it's a lot more to go through,  but when you know what you are looking for it can be easier. In this example.  I only searched for " shadow bat 30 " came back as 136 or so results on Ebay.. noticed the Roman numeral to right of DC logo so focused my attention there as I scroll.. found those two pretty quick. Glad I could help. That will be another awsome set to have in all Variants! 

Ok well that one sold.. here is another :

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253717664502

Here are is one currently listed on ebay:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F401868318558