mar-vell

Thanx for the heads up but i don't have cable just high speed internet. Can't you stream this episode from the web site? http://www.cwtv.com/shows/arrow hmmm didn't know that existed - i will check it out if amazon doesn't get it fixed soon. Last night I would have been all over that as I was trying over and over with the stream to no avail. I just checked and amazon has refunded my money and is looking into the problem so at this point I will wait on them to get back to me. thanks again in fact i will click the link right now and see if i can find what i need. Sweet! thanks!- good ending - like the show much better than shield. better cast and a great villain.

Thanx for the heads up but i don't have cable just high speed internet. Can't you stream this episode from the web site? http://www.cwtv.com/shows/arrow hmmm didn't know that existed - i will check it out if amazon doesn't get it fixed soon. Last night I would have been all over that as I was trying over and over with the stream to no avail. I just checked and amazon has refunded my money and is looking into the problem so at this point I will wait on them to get back to me. thanks again in fact i will click the link right now and see if i can find what i need.

Thanx for the heads up but i don't have cable just high speed internet.

i purchased the stream of the latest episode titled man under the hood from amazon and the stream was only 30 minutes long. Hopefully they will fix it so i can see the last 13 minutes.

You think 350 people have cracked out AF #15? I cant believe it would be that high. I would guess alot of people would not crack out this book...due to the very high cost and value. I am sure there are some people who crack the cases on all there books, and doing it to a low dollar book...who cares. You crack an AF #15...you lose the set grade....hence the value. And alot of people are only going to buy really big books slabbed. Lets start a poll..... Who here has cracked out an AF #15? I would be shocked it you find more then 10 people on here who have. But I could be wrong. I bought a CGC 5.5 AF15 in 2005, cracked it open and had it raw in my collection for 9 years. Recerted at 5.5 earlier this year and sold on the link. Cost me $460 to read at a whim for 9 years. Obviously I took a big risk being so eccentric but i just couldn't resist such a great book. Sadly I am looking to buy property so I couldn't resist moving it during this latest surge either.

time for a little old label goodness-

Because comics were different back then, and there was none of this "mass overexposure to make a quick buck" that we saw in the late-80's and 90's. Marvel actually worried about ruining Wolverine by putting him in too many books and there was a moratorium on doling out his origin - keep him mysterious. In the 90's that all changed, and you're making the big mistake of using a 90's speculator mindset to judge a character in the early-1980's. So why did Spider-man appear in 5 books a month? The truth is spidey was still marvels flagship character but even so 5 books a month was stretching him a little thin. I personally felt spectacular and amazing were the only ones worthwhile and the rest were throwaway. I think to a degree spidey kept wolverine down. Spidey had large appeal and was american as apple pie at that point. Spidey also had wholesomeness going for him. Parents were comfortable with their 5 year olds pretending to be him. At the time spidey was on the rise he really just had to compete with the FF to be the face of the franchise and as good as they were being only a year older they were not deeply entrenched like spidey was when wolverine was on the rise. So spidey was a proven character who could carry 5 titles a month without too much danger of being overexposed even if some of the stuff was drek. Thats a rare bird there. Could marvel have had enough foresight to see wolverine potentially carrying some of that load going forward but were cautious about presenting a character with so many grey areas as a face of the franchise?

And that's what is getting lost in all of this. Of course he was popular in comics, growing in popularity every year, it's almost impossible to gauge just how popular he was at any given time. But my interpretation of 'white hot superstar' would exceed the audience of just comics and put him on an iconic level of Spider-man and Batman. And I just didn't see him like that in the early to mid 80's. And at some point, and maybe this IS the real point... To be an iconic, white hot superstar in comics - shouldn't you have your own monthly book? How can you be the biggest character in comics and not have your own monthly book in YOUR name? Right on I agree with you. Much of fandom saw him as the next big thing and in comics at the time he was on fire but he would have to stand the test of time and the fact the marvel was more heavily invested in characters like spider-man to reach a national or worldwide iconic level of fandom. As to your point about not having his own book I think often there is an exception to the rule and wolverine is it. He was surging for years before marvel decided to give him his own mag and I think prevailing opinion at the time being it was long overdue when it came. Throughout the 80's wolverine had the midas touch. Feature him in a book and it was solid gold. Even still at that point I don't think he was the biggest name in comics but he proved to be the one true character from that era that made it to iconic status.

A lot of people are saying, and have said that. But there were a lot of magazines about comics being published at the time, and no one's come up with anything, outside of the CBG fan award winners (which doesn't include any runners up), that shows that Wolverine was "white hot" or a "superstar" at the comic fandom level. And the CBG fan awards only shows Wolverine as most popular in two years...1982, and 1984...and then never appears again. What about the other years? Why was Batman the winner in 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, and 1989? 1989 is easy to account for...but 5 wins in 6 years? Where was Punisher? How about Wolvie? Spidey? And what about the OTHER CBG fan award categories? How about favorite story: 1982: Last Hand in Daredevil #181 by Frank Miller (Marvel) 1983: (Tie) Doom! by Walter Simonson in Thor #337 (Marvel); Hard Times in American Flagg! #1-3 by Howard Chaykin (First) 1984: The Judas Contract in Tales of the Teen Titans #42-44 and Tales of the Teen Titans Annual #3 by Marv Wolfman and George Pérez (DC) 1985: Beyond the Silent Night in Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 by Marv Wolfman and George Pérez (DC) 1986: Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1-4 by Frank Miller, Klaus Janson, and Lynn Varley (DC) No Wolvie in sight, but Miller appears twice. How about favorite title: 1982: The Uncanny X-Men (Marvel) 1983: American Flagg! (First) 1984: The Uncanny X-Men (Marvel) 1985: Swamp Thing (DC) - So X-Men wins twice, but not for 1983. (By the way...American Flagg was tearing up the joint in these years.) Favorite GN: 1984 (actually, Book): Dazzler: The Movie (Marvel Graphic Novel #12) by Jim Shooter, Frank Springer, and Vince Colletta (Marvel) 1985 (actually, Book): Comic Book Price Guide #15 by Robert M. Overstreet (Overstreet) 1986: Daredevil: Love and War (Marvel Graphic Novel #24) by Frank Miller and Bill Sienkiewicz (Marvel) - Miller again! No Wolvie. Dazzler gets a graphic novel, even! The OPG certainly doesn't show it. Here's an example that contradicts it: Amazing Heroes, in their issue #63, published their "Best 10 Books (titles) of 1984." They are, in order: #1. Swamp Thing (in fact, by 1985, Swamp Thing had rapidly become one of the best titles on the racks.) #2. Jon Sable #3. American Flagg #4. New Teen Titans #5. Fantastic Four #6. X-Men #7. Blue Devil #8. Atari Force #9. Doctor Strange #10. Power Pack. I don't have the actual issue in hand, but it's from a DC house ad that says "per R.A. Jones, Amazing Heroes" issue #63. Here's why this is important: it was published AT THE TIME, documenting the situation, at least as Amazing Heroes saw it, AT THE TIME. And X-Men...? A dismal 6th, behind reasonably argued MUCH better titles. Wolverine may, in fact, have been the single hottest thing since sliced bread...to 11 and 12 year old boys. But 11 and 12 year old boys did not make up the entire market, and, in 1983, didn't even make up the majority of the market anymore. If it was a discussion about which character was the most popular X-Man, or most popular Marvel character, among 11-12 year old boys in 1982, 1983, 1984...hand down, no contest! Wolvie wins! But it's not. Show me anything documented at the time that makes the claim that many are making, that Wolvie was a superstar in 1983, and white hot. I am perfectly willing to change my mind, based on new evidence. Well the fact that at the time wolverine was part of the x-men makes it very hard to show proof. I think going forward in time we see the proof in merchandising as wolverine has far surpassed anything of that time period in terms of popularity. I do think the recollection of fans here who lived through it should count for something but I concede our experiences were a regional thing. Chuck says in Missouri he didn't see a marked up back issues by Byrne until 87. In NY/NJ you couldn't touch a Byrne back issue without paying way over guide in 1983. I can assure you at the time wolverines popularity went beyond young boys he was well on his way to iconic status but as i stated in my last post not there yet. I guess some of it pertains to what you consider a superstar. Sales alone? His own series? These things came with time. One thing i can confidently assert that the enthusiasm was there and it was on another level from other characters introduced in that time period. That enthusiasm proved to be infectious. Its that enthusiasm that made him a shining star at the fandom level in those days. By 1983 wolverine certainly had a large base of these enthusiastic fans that loved the character and already considered him the best of the best. This was clear at any convention in my area large or small. To those fans he was a superstar and on his way to iconic status. The number of those fans at the time isn't nearly as important as the fact that they were right. Wolverine is a big name today. Ask an "old school" fan and most will say it was the Byrne years that made the man. newer fans may point to the launching of his own series. I remember everyone loving the miller mini series but in 83 the buzz about it had already died down. I never viewed it as a turning point that launched the character to another level but I am sure some did. Looking at sales and awards only tells part of the story. Dazzler shot up and then fizzled, by 1983 no one cared about that character. The market was all over the place and "hot" items like Thor 337 would surge and fizzle. Throughout it all the x-men were solid gold and just got stronger over time. The one who got the strongest over time was wolverine so there is that.

Just looking back at it I think there were a lot of key moments in the rising star of wolverine. You could make an argument its not just one moment as each one made him more popular than before. I remember clearly in the summer of 83 anything x-men was red hot and anything wolverine was white hot! So he was certainly a superstar at the comic fandom level by that point. Many felt at that point he had already surpassed Spidey in terms of popularity or at least well on his way to being an iconic character the likes of spiderman,superman, batman, and hulk. The reality was his level of saturation outside the hobby was still nowhere near the level of these characters and wouldn't be for years to come. I think he was a great character to begin with though neglected until the arrival of Byrne. Byrne made him into the character we knew and loved in the late 70's and early 80's. Miller's rendition certainly did nothing to diminish his fame and helped his character to continue to evolve. As popular as x-men and wolverine in particular were in 83 I was still surprised at the level of success it attained and sustained throughout the eighties. So if you are interested in the genesis of his popularity history clearly points to John Byrne and his desire to see a Canadian super hero prosper. That started a fire in fandom that just grew hotter over time. Looks to me the late eighties with the massive popularity of the x-men comics and wolverines own series that he really started to become a household name on par with spider-man to those who don't pay much attention to comics.

i started buying x-men off the stands in the summer of 1983. I believe issue 173 was my first book. I actually can trace my collecting back to amazing spider-man #238 which I know I bought because the cover grabbed me. Read that issue and loved it so I think I collected spidey from that point on but its fuzzy. I recall hanging out with a friend in summer of 83 turned me on to the x-men as the best thing going. After reading it I wholeheartedly agreed. I spent the next few years going to local convention in the NJ/NY area and the rage was always Byrne X-men and Wolverine in particular. Wolverine was huge and although Miller's short run was universally loved the prevailing sentiment everywhere i went looking for my books was Byrne made the X-men and Wolverine in particular into the juggernaut it currently was. I eventually collected GS1 and 94-up as a kid which was quite a task. Also managed to complete the entire miller DD run. For me the greatest miller work will always be those daredevils which made Miller's popularity on par with Byrne when i started. It was always Byrne and Miller on fire in those days with most but not all preferring Byrne's x-men over everything else. I really liked Byrne's FF until he replaced thing with she- hulk he lost me there. I never cared for miller's DK returns run in part due to being a marvel zombie but mostly the new style didn't grab me at all. I just loved miller's DD work and hated the thought we weren't going to get more of the same on batman. Sienkiewicz style infected marvel comics and killed it for me. I hated it and it seemed to be everwhere. throughout the 80's I bought a book here and there but my hardcore early collecting days died around issue 200 of the x-men. It didn't help that i hated spideys new suit as well. It just seemed i started at the tail end of a great creative period that saw the launch of simonson Thor but shortly after marvel was making all the wrong moves that began their decent into the useless drek they have put out since.

Spider - Dan got screwed on a resub that came back restored but also came back blue again on a third try from a person he sold it to. Sborock is still a hippy and a nice guy. CGC is working on some form of reimbursement with Dan. The rest is mostly just conversation.

Well I do that sort of. But its out of eccentricity I guess not to turn a profit.Although I love profits I am very much a collector. I bought a large percentage of my books slabbed because the product was simply higher quality than raw and cracked almost every one and put them in my collection. When i resell the big dollar books i simply have to recert in order to reach top market value. I went through this recently with my copy of AF15. I bought it 9 years ago as a CGC 5.5 and cracked it open and put it in my collection. I read it about once a year over that time period. The value of the book rose so much recently that i felt i just had to move it as I am looking to buy some property this year. I sent it back to CGC and was a bit nervous even though I was confident the book was in the exact same condition as it was when i cracked it. I countered this by sending the old blue label in with the book waving a flag to CGC saying "I hope this doesn't come back a 5.0!" which made me feel a little better about it. Even still i knew it could regrade under 5.5 and felt there was a slight shot it could come back a 6.0 as well. The end result was it came back universal 5.5 and i sold it in a week for a very nice profit. So by cracking it open i paid $460 dollars to enjoy reading the book for 9 years when i felt like it but there was the risk it could cost me more. I would imagine I am not the only collector who does this but I think I am in the minority. My Wonder Woman 1 had the pages reversed (it was restored). Someone had restored it and put them back in reverse order. I bought it that way on eBay. It was driving me nuts (even though it was slabbed) So... I had the pages put back in the right place. It came back a full grade lower, . That was at least 7 or 8 years ago. It was also pressed when the pages were fixed, I don't know if that had anything to do with it. I would send the label back if I did that again, too...but people who are hoping to make money on this, probably don't want to waive flags at the people grading...besides, I understand the graders don't see the old labels. Wow! Really? At one time IIRC you got a $5 discount for returning the label although i didn't see that reflected in my bill this time out and i assumed it was a valuable tool to be able to evaluate the book against their original opinion of which I thought they kept permanent scans. so I guess it just allows them to update the census. Sad to hear that.

Well I do that sort of. But its out of eccentricity I guess not to turn a profit.Although I love profits I am very much a collector. I bought a large percentage of my books slabbed because the product was simply higher quality than raw and cracked almost every one and put them in my collection. When i resell the big dollar books i simply have to recert in order to reach top market value. I went through this recently with my copy of AF15. I bought it 9 years ago as a CGC 5.5 and cracked it open and put it in my collection. I read it about once a year over that time period. The value of the book rose so much recently that i felt i just had to move it as I am looking to buy some property this year. I sent it back to CGC and was a bit nervous even though I was confident the book was in the exact same condition as it was when i cracked it. I countered this by sending the old blue label in with the book waving a flag to CGC saying "I hope this doesn't come back a 5.0!" which made me feel a little better about it. Even still i knew it could regrade under 5.5 and felt there was a slight shot it could come back a 6.0 as well. The end result was it came back universal 5.5 and i sold it in a week for a very nice profit. So by cracking it open i paid $460 dollars to enjoy reading the book for 9 years when i felt like it but there was the risk it could cost me more. I would imagine I am not the only collector who does this but I think I am in the minority.

Reminds me of Moody's, Standard & Poor's, and Fitch Group. All they sell is their opinion so if you buy a CDO that is junk that was rated AAA by them you are screwed and there is nothing you can do about it.

The purple label 7.0 was graded before the blue label 6.0. Plus, why would anyone want to go to the expense for a setup? There's really nothing to be gained other than bad press and the CGC certainly doesn't need anyone's help in that regard. Certification #: 0227546002 Title: Journey Into Mystery Issue: 83 Issue Date: 8/62 Issue Year: 1962 Publisher: Marvel Comics Grade: 7.0 Pedigree: COVER TRIMMED Page Quality: OFF-WHITE TO WHITE Label Text: TOP EDGE OF COVER TRIMMED. Grade Date: 02/14/2014 Category: Apparent Art Comments: Stan Lee story Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko art Jack Kirby cover Key Comments: Origin and 1st appearance of Thor (Doctor Don Blake). Certification #: 0230667003 Title: Journey Into Mystery Issue: 83 Issue Date: 8/62 Issue Year: 1962 Publisher: Marvel Comics Grade: 6.0 Page Quality: OFF-WHITE Grade Date: 03/27/2014 Category: Universal Art Comments: Stan Lee story Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko art Jack Kirby cover Key Comments: Origin and 1st appearance of Thor (Doctor Don Blake). What really confuses me are the grade dates. Only several weeks apart. This book and all the hoopla had to be fresh in their memories. You'd have to be completely incompetent for not a single CGC employee to go, "Hey isn't this the comic we just had all the....." And how did it get graded so quickly. If you factor in the shipping times from CGC to customer, customer sells it to next person, then customer shipsback to CGC... that has to take awhile. How did this book get graded so fast? Did someone pay for a walkthrough? At that value, walk-thru is the only option - thought so- i just paid big bucks to have them grade my AF15 would have been upset if there was a way to sneak it in for a lesser fee. BTW my condolences this is a nightmare scenario i have dreaded anytime i send a big dollar book in to get graded. I still think CGC is pretty reliable but human error is a factor that just can't be removed from the equation no matter how hard they try.

Loved the movie. Great fighting sequences,story and character development. On par with IM1,Avengers, and Thor1(loved Thor1 have found it to be a movie I have enjoyed rewatching many times). Once again marvel shows how to make a better movie out of a lower tier character than sony and fox can make out of "A" list characters. Which is a comfort as IM3 and Thor2 had me worried marvel was losing its touch.

I don't think you should limit the "marvel age"to a top 10 as there are more keys than that but if you must i would just go by fair market value to determine the order. Otherwise you can have a lot f debate over whether AF15 or FF1 is #1 and which book is #10 as there are several books that could fit in. Without counting them up i think a top 15 would more accurately reflect the important books of the era.

this book is going back to CGC soon fellas - plan to offer it here in the spring.

Looked at the last 10 pages of this thread before i went to bed last night. Some really impressive books fellas. All of em are great but the 9+ early spideys are a sight for sore eyes - grats!

I hope a movie gets made and does about as well as the first Thor movie. In any event i intend to hold onto my copy for another 20 years at least as I think this book has too much unrealized potential to part with. Best case scenario i make enough money that i never need to sell it for any price but at least if i hold it long term i can feel confident i didn't let it go too early.

this really is a great cover. I love the colors on it. Its strange too but out of all the great marvel age keys i think this book has the best looking midgrade copies. When was the last time you saw an AF 15 in CGC 4.5 that looked this sharp? That is a very pretty copy. As for the AF #15, since you asked nicely (sorry for the non-Hulk #1 image)... outstanding copy from what i have seen this book stands apart from other AF 15's in 4.5 most are rough looking.

this really is a great cover. I love the colors on it. Its strange too but out of all the great marvel age keys i think this book has the best looking midgrade copies. When was the last time you saw an AF 15 in CGC 4.5 that looked this sharp?

been looking for a NM copy of this book that isn't miswrapped for some time...

^ when i was a kid my sister gave me one for a present. I thought it was cool but i was more into the mego's they were just plain easier to play with. i eventually gave it away after about 5 or 6 years to another kid. Spent a long time wondering what it was and thinking i would never see it again. I couldn't even remember its name. Thank God for the internet it makes acquiring items like this possible.