scburdet

Chip out of the TLFC, stress lines, some soiling on the back. I'd give this a 7.5 and clean it in hopes of 7.5/8.0

I see a vein/printer's crease around the CCA box. It's unclear to me what the line on TLBC near the 1 is. Is it a tear or another crease of some sort? Other than that, am outstanding copy.

See?!?!!!!

5.5/6.0. I haven't see any evidence of a stain this size getting higher than a 6.0. Both of my stained books with comparable staining are 5.5s

Imagining a good c&p, I think this will look better than my 7.5. 8.0/8.5, leaning 8.0

8.5/9.0. So it will probably be 9.4

around 7 if pressed.

It's going to depend a lot on what the fingerprints are. I've got a book where the black ink was partially lifted with a finger. Not much you can do about that except have a creator sign or sketch over it. If it's a little bit of oil maybe it can be cleaned a bit. I'd want to be careful to prevent smudging or scuffing the ink since the black cover is going to show everything. I don't even want to go look at my copy too closely.

Also not an expert, I think more of those read Grading and Restoration issues. My semi-educated guess is a standard quick & dirty press won't take it out (the spot to the right looks like more than an indention), but the more talented c&pers have a bag of tricks beyond sticking things straight into a hot press. It is possible to make defects worse if pressing is done improperly. I can't be 100% sure, but you might have what's called a "vein" in the CGC guide, although it looks like a vein plus something else. It's described as a squiggly line cause by a pinching. The guide says 9.2-9.8 depending on severity. Expertly press, I'd guess 9.2/9.4 is possible.

I found someone else in the forum stating this, but it might depend on severity. A lot of the information I Googled is several years old so IDK what the most current position of CGC is.

I have a hypothesis that the more likely a defect can be seen through the holder, the less likely it is to be described, especially in the NM range. That's the most charitable explanation I have for getting more 9.0s back without notes. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, or I'm just full of it.

I covered myself well with the >9.2. Very nice result. I'm pretty sure (trying not to step in anything again) that you can return books with newton rings to be reholdered as a Mechanical Error without being charged as long as you do it quickly. Verify that with customer service. My only word of caution is that I sent back a Mechanical Error for a case that was not quite snapped together on one side in November. It's been sitting in "Scheduled for Grading" limbo ever since. I can't say that I was expecting it to take +6 months to turn that around, so if you have time-sensitive plans for the books, be aware.

I absolutely agree that if one takes these two books side-by-side there's not really a plausible explanation for a difference of 5 grades, which points to an error or a need to revise standards. My personal opinion is that the penalty for staining is too severe (with light minor ones anyway), but now that I know what they are, there's no reason to submit books with stains until/if that changes.

I think "appeals process" was perhaps a poor choice of words on my part. It's safe to say if someone has a book that looks NM & it came back labeled a 4.0, you'd probably think there was a clerical error, mix-up or something else along the way. If you did this every time a predicted NM came back in the 8s, I'm pretty sure customer service would be annoyed. The idea here would be to appeal (as in to call customer service) about apparent obvious errors. In the context of the two threads, IMO, there was a clearly a problem somewhere b/c I've never seen a 9.0 with that volume of defects that Conan book has.. How many people would actually complain to customer service their 6.0 came back a 9.0? Not many, I'd guess. As I stated above, this Iron Man book looks to have been graded consistently with CGC standards IMO, whether you like those standards or not. I just had a couple books that my facilitator was suspicious about an error of some kind when they were returned among IDK how many dozens were in a shipment. In a separate instance, we got back a different comic than we sent (sent a MJs, a regular newsstand returned). We *think* that my book came back in a different shipment with a wrong label, so the two went back to sort it out. I'm currently hoping that is the case b/c otherwise my book is gone (and would be the 2nd one lost in a year). I don't know the outcome of either situation other than I know the MJs mix-up is back in their hands after customer service was contacted b/c I had complete photographic documentation of what was sent. I don't think I mentioned any process other than the one board member's books other than the Conan, some of those books look like they got dinged to the low end of the predicted range (maybe 1 or two a grade or 2 lower for previously unidentified defects), which is the risk one takes with 3rd party grading as we all know. Hope that clears up my sloppy description. I made a slight clarifying edit to the comment on the Conan post in case someone else stumbles upon it, which was the genesis of this post and the questions.

8.0/8.5.

what is "cleaning" in this case? To me, just knocking the loose rust off is the obvious move. I thought that I saw someone claiming CGC dinged them for staples that looked polished. Not sure I would want to put metal polish that close to paper

the notes are consistently inconsistent. Whoever is the grading, what their standards are, how thorough they were on a Monday vs. a Friday. I have seen examples where I think the grader concluded a defect was obvious enough looking at the book that they didn't need to add it. I actually have a book with a clipped coupon that's not mentioned in the notes. I'd call that both significant and obvious, but they left it out. Since it's just in my PC, I have no reason to get it changed. I've seen a few people comment that they started using alternatives to CGC b/c the other company is better about documenting defects. Don't know how true that is, but I've seen it asserted.

usually, I find "light creasing to cover" appears to refer to the small crease along the spine. With the slight miswrap, it's hard to see what's going on along the spine. It doesn't take much to score light creasing.

Their notes are inconsistent. If you ask, they'll say notes are an added benefit, not something that's guaranteed. It's not unusual to have a defect no mentioned in notes. I have several 9.0s with no notes, so it's just guesswork to figure out how a specific grade was assigned. Mostly annoying if you're trying to make future decisions about what to submit and what to hold back.

9.2/9.4

>9.2. Anything except a 9.8 possible

I can recommend the CGC Guide for predicting the impact *some* defects. Others are left pretty ambiguous in their written description (i.e. a more subjective call for the grader), but fading is not one of these. The description, along with some images, gives a pretty good handle on what their standards are.

FWIW, my grade came from the reading of the CGC book. 9.0-9.6 for "staple only" rust depending on severity (I assume a high 9 would mean barely perceptible), and the lower as their is rust transfer to the paper. The books says 6.0-7.0 for significant page migration. This seems pretty mild compared to other examples I've seen. I do have a hard time believing they would give a 6.0 to some of those books that have heavy rust stain migration, although in those cases it's usually among many moderate to serious defects, so I doubt they see to many pristine books except for significant rust migration. It does seem like they're going to be slightly kinder to rust staining b/c it is not from an external source.

☝️ This. I don't want to overstate what the appeals process is or isn't. Like I said, I work with an certified/authorized CGC dealer, which might be handled a bit differently since they're submitting a lot of books all the time. That said, CGC is absolutely killing stains of all kinds. I have a Marvel Premiere 28 that I expected 8 or higher. Really thought it was at least a 9. It's a 6.5 and the most obvious reason I can see for the low grade is the mention of a light stain. I really had to look hard for it, but I found it. We can disagree with CGC's standards, but they are what they are. My MP28 has a lot more eye appeal than a lot of comics I've seen with bigger numbers in that top corner, but I don't see wiggle room on stains. One of my first learning experiences was with an Iron Fist 14. Another great looking book, but with some light water stains on the back, another tiny hidden stain on the front. 5.5. I'm trying to be very careful with stained books now, particularly if they aren't big keys like this Iron Man. It looks great. As other people will tell you, buy the book, not the grade. I'd take your book in a heartbeat. The only thing that burns is if you've paid a high grade book price that ends up getting hammered for a stain. That, is not fun.

I assume deserved corrections either way are possible. IMO, this would be harder to sell as a 9.0 b/c it doesn't look like a 9.0. I can see buyers being leery if the appearance & grade seem out of sync.