which one would you choose, and why ???

[batman_fan]

 

Tough Call. You have the first appearance of Batman which is agruably the second most important comic in the history of comics, but we are focusing on the comic itself here which involves many factors including the condition. Now Tec 27 isnt scarce by a long shot. If I had the funds to collect such high end comics I could find a Tec 27 in less than a day where as the Brave and the Bold 28 isnt hard to find either but it is very difficult to find in HG and would be much more difficult to get. The Tec 27 is obviously a frankenbook which tells me that the book was originally in much lower condition before getting a make-over and the B&B 28 is in un-restored 9.4 condition, which is the highest in the census and arguabally the best copy in the world (slabbed and un-slabbed). Getting a mid-grade Tec 27 and turning it into a frankenbook would be a much easier task to accomplish than getting a HG B&B 28 so in this case I will take the B&B 28 ....

interesting...comaring tec 27 to BB 28 is kind of like comparing apples to oranges, in my opinion, but I understand where the initial offering came from... tec 27 is EXTREMELY scarce, both in general, and relative to BB 28...we sometimes get spoiled, because we have Metropolis, which has an incredible ability to secure and offer rare books (such as Tec 27)...that said, right now, there are only 2 tec 27 copies in the entire market (that I am aware of) for sale...a heavily restored vg/fn, and a restored/trimmed fine.... so, without them, there would be no source for a tec 27 period, in ANY condition (unless you count the Todd copy, which no one really has a clue about right now)....there are 24 total census copies of BB 28 in 8.0 or better (with 6 being 8.5 or better restored)...there are 3 copies of Tec 27 in the census 8.0 or better (all 3 restored, all 3 extensive)...

I can tell you first hand, that the tec 27 shown was NOT/is NOT a frankenbook (in the traditional sense)...it had a jagged top front cover edge that needed a fair amount of piece replacement (but in a "non critical" area, if you will...just yellow border), and needed some cleaning and color touch/reinforcement, seals, etc...could have been approx a g/vg before resto (technically), but overall, had a much stronger appearance ...

now, I bet of those 18 copies of BB 28 that are 8.0 and higher "blue", quite a few could be pressed into 9.0's and higher...so, I would have to contend, that it would be far easier to get a high grade (9.0 or higher) BB 28, than even finding "any" tec 27 period (in any condition)...finding one in 8.5 or better extensive restored condition, to me is a far rarer opportunity...

just my 2 cents

gator

 

great summary (thumbs u

[MutantKeys]

[

tec 27 is EXTREMELY scarce

Are you serious? I see Tec 27's everywhere I go. At least a handful own a copy on these very boards. To say its extremely scarce is wrong. If it was extremely scarce I wouldnt be able to find the book, which is not the case.

 

it had a jagged top front cover edge that needed a fair amount of piece replacement (but in a "non critical" area, if you will...just yellow border), and needed some cleaning and color touch/reinforcement, seals, etc.

 

That's a frankenbook, IMO.

 

 

[MutantKeys]

 

Tough Call. You have the first appearance of Batman which is agruably the second most important comic in the history of comics, but we are focusing on the comic itself here which involves many factors including the condition. Now Tec 27 isnt scarce by a long shot. If I had the funds to collect such high end comics I could find a Tec 27 in less than a day where as the Brave and the Bold 28 isnt hard to find either but it is very difficult to find in HG and would be much more difficult to get. The Tec 27 is obviously a frankenbook which tells me that the book was originally in much lower condition before getting a make-over and the B&B 28 is in un-restored 9.4 condition, which is the highest in the census and arguabally the best copy in the world (slabbed and un-slabbed). Getting a mid-grade Tec 27 and turning it into a frankenbook would be a much easier task to accomplish than getting a HG B&B 28 so in this case I will take the B&B 28 ....

 

what a good argument. yeah, as scarce as Tec 27s are, you could wait awhile and pick up a low grade copy and for a couple grand build a copy like this one. But youd wait a long time for another freak copy of BB28 in 9.4. The only question remaining is the demand side of the equation. I think the number of people whod want ANY copy of Tec27 is larger than those who want only the BEST BB28... for the $$$ involved that is.

 

Im aware this contest arose out of some harsh words spoken or perceived about the sale, but its an interesting contest, eh?

hello all...

not sure how well folks know the Tec 27 market, but even a fr will run you in excess of $30-40K just to touch these days...and then, can likely only be improved to the vg/fn range...

to get a book, extensive or not, improved to 8.5+ range, that book would likely have to be, as someone else stated, a 3.0 or better (probably 4.0 or better)...

Not true... it all depends on why the book originally grades at what. For example, you could probably restore a 1.5-2.5 with a huge tear to a 7.0 or better..

[Filter81]

Wow, this is a lot closer than I thought it'd be! (So far by my count its 4 to 3 in favor of the 'Tec 27. Wasn't sure which way to count October's) I really thought this would be a lot more one-sided. (not that they aren't both nice books)

 

Anyway I don't want to say much because I don't want to influence the vote. (i think this is interesting despite the reason why it started I would really like to see where people stand)

 

But I'd be fired from my job as a restoration-defender if I didn't point out one thing for people who may be reading this thread. You can't just go out and buy a 3.0 and then pay to turn it into an 8.5. I've been having books professionally restored for 6 years and have yet to have a book increase by more than 4 to 4.5 points (even with extensive restoration) The book that goes from a 3.0 to an 8.5 happens very very rarely. To get an 8.5 or higher the book has to either be the perfect candidate from the start, or more likely it started in the 5.0+ range to begin with and was restored years ago before restoration values dropped. You certainly could go out and buy an unrestored 5.0 and try to turn it into an extensively restored 8.5... but you'd lose alot of money in the process on a book like this which is why people don't do it anymore. Thats why when you look at the census on some of these mega keys you see a lot of restored 5.0/7.5s, but not many restored 8.5s-9.2s)

 

 

[batman_fan]

Wow, this is a lot closer than I thought it'd be! (So far by my count its 4 to 3 in favor of the 'Tec 27. Wasn't sure which way to count October's) I really thought this would be a lot more one-sided. (not that they aren't both nice books)

 

Anyway I don't want to say much because I don't want to influence the vote. (i think this is interesting despite the reason why it started I would really like to see where people stand)

 

But I'd be fired from my job as a restoration-defender if I didn't point out one thing for people who may be reading this thread. You can't just go out and buy a 3.0 and then pay to turn it into an 8.5. I've been having books professionally restored for 6 years and have yet to have a book increase by more than 4 to 4.5 points (even with extensive restoration) The book that goes from a 3.0 to an 8.5 happens very very rarely. To get an 8.5 or higher the book has to either be the perfect candidate from the start, or more likely it started in the 5.0+ range to begin with and was restored years ago before restoration values dropped. You certainly could go out and buy an unrestored 5.0 and try to turn it into an extensively restored 8.5... but you'd lose alot of money in the process on a book like this which is why people don't do it anymore. Thats why when you look at the census on some of these mega keys you see a lot of restored 5.0/7.5s, but not many restored 8.5s-9.2s)

 

 

Results may change more if this were posted in the Golden-age section rather than General.

[G.A.tor]

[

tec 27 is EXTREMELY scarce

Are you serious? I see Tec 27's everywhere I go. At least a handful own a copy on these very boards. To say its extremely scarce is wrong. If it was extremely scarce I wouldnt be able to find the book, which is not the case.

 

it had a jagged top front cover edge that needed a fair amount of piece replacement (but in a "non critical" area, if you will...just yellow border), and needed some cleaning and color touch/reinforcement, seals, etc.

 

That's a frankenbook, IMO.

 

I have to preface my statement...I meant tec 27's available for sale in the market is extremely scarce, and tec 27's available period, versus original production numbers...in the past 2 years, there have only be, what, 6? for sale (I define that as 'extremely scarce")...and true, a few board members have a copy (I Think bangzoom, ciorac , 1 koko and berk come to mind, but I am not sure if there are any others), but they are not for sale...and, take Metro out of the equation, and right now you have zero for sale (again, "scarce")....

 

I consider a frankenbook to be a book that was in the pr/fr range, restored to "whatever" (tons of work added...not just "extensive", but "excessive")...I have a hard time imagining a solid g/vg or vg copy restored to a vf as a "Frankenbook"...by the average comic collector's definition...

gator

[ciorac]

[

tec 27 is EXTREMELY scarce

Are you serious? I see Tec 27's everywhere I go. At least a handful own a copy on these very boards. To say its extremely scarce is wrong. If it was extremely scarce I wouldnt be able to find the book, which is not the case.

 

it had a jagged top front cover edge that needed a fair amount of piece replacement (but in a "non critical" area, if you will...just yellow border), and needed some cleaning and color touch/reinforcement, seals, etc.

 

That's a frankenbook, IMO.

 

 

Then your opinion is based in error. You obviously have no clue whatsoever what constitutes a "frankenbook".

 

The lack of a fair and balanced restoration scale that is widely accepted leads to this misconception, so take heart, you are not alone in this opinion, just grossly uninformed.

[MutantKeys]

Wow, this is a lot closer than I thought it'd be! (So far by my count its 4 to 3 in favor of the 'Tec 27. Wasn't sure which way to count October's) I really thought this would be a lot more one-sided. (not that they aren't both nice books)

 

Anyway I don't want to say much because I don't want to influence the vote. (i think this is interesting despite the reason why it started I would really like to see where people stand)

 

But I'd be fired from my job as a restoration-defender if I didn't point out one thing for people who may be reading this thread. You can't just go out and buy a 3.0 and then pay to turn it into an 8.5. I've been having books professionally restored for 6 years and have yet to have a book increase by more than 4 to 4.5 points (even with extensive restoration) The book that goes from a 3.0 to an 8.5 happens very very rarely. To get an 8.5 or higher the book has to either be the perfect candidate from the start, or more likely it started in the 5.0+ range to begin with and was restored years ago before restoration values dropped. You certainly could go out and buy an unrestored 5.0 and try to turn it into an extensively restored 8.5... but you'd lose alot of money in the process on a book like this which is why people don't do it anymore. Thats why when you look at the census on some of these mega keys you see a lot of restored 5.0/7.5s, but not many restored 8.5s-9.2s)

 

 

Results may change more if this were posted in the Golden-age section rather than General.

Well duh!

[ciorac]

 

Tough Call. You have the first appearance of Batman which is agruably the second most important comic in the history of comics, but we are focusing on the comic itself here which involves many factors including the condition. Now Tec 27 isnt scarce by a long shot. If I had the funds to collect such high end comics I could find a Tec 27 in less than a day where as the Brave and the Bold 28 isnt hard to find either but it is very difficult to find in HG and would be much more difficult to get. The Tec 27 is obviously a frankenbook which tells me that the book was originally in much lower condition before getting a make-over and the B&B 28 is in un-restored 9.4 condition, which is the highest in the census and arguabally the best copy in the world (slabbed and un-slabbed). Getting a mid-grade Tec 27 and turning it into a frankenbook would be a much easier task to accomplish than getting a HG B&B 28 so in this case I will take the B&B 28 ....

 

what a good argument. yeah, as scarce as Tec 27s are, you could wait awhile and pick up a low grade copy and for a couple grand build a copy like this one. But youd wait a long time for another freak copy of BB28 in 9.4. The only question remaining is the demand side of the equation. I think the number of people whod want ANY copy of Tec27 is larger than those who want only the BEST BB28... for the $$$ involved that is.

 

Im aware this contest arose out of some harsh words spoken or perceived about the sale, but its an interesting contest, eh?

hello all...

not sure how well folks know the Tec 27 market, but even a fr will run you in excess of $30-40K just to touch these days...and then, can likely only be improved to the vg/fn range...

to get a book, extensive or not, improved to 8.5+ range, that book would likely have to be, as someone else stated, a 3.0 or better (probably 4.0 or better)...

Not true... it all depends on why the book originally grades at what. For example, you could probably restore a 1.5-2.5 with a huge tear to a 7.0 or better..

Again your ignorance of restoration methods and possiblities is showing Danny. Perhaps you should contact Matt Nelson or Susan C. to ask them how many 1.5 golden age books they restore to 8.5 with off-white pages.......

[MutantKeys]

I have to preface my statement...I meant tec 27's available for sale in the market is extremely scarce, and tec 27's available period, versus original production numbers...in the past 2 years, there have only be, what, 6? for sale (I define that as 'extremely scarce")...and true, a few board members have a copy (I Think bangzoom, ciorac , 1 koko and berk come to mind, but I am not sure if there are any others), but they are not for sale...and, take Metro out of the equation, and right now you have zero for sale (again, "scarce")....

 

 

(thumbs u

 

 

[MutantKeys]

 

Tough Call. You have the first appearance of Batman which is agruably the second most important comic in the history of comics, but we are focusing on the comic itself here which involves many factors including the condition. Now Tec 27 isnt scarce by a long shot. If I had the funds to collect such high end comics I could find a Tec 27 in less than a day where as the Brave and the Bold 28 isnt hard to find either but it is very difficult to find in HG and would be much more difficult to get. The Tec 27 is obviously a frankenbook which tells me that the book was originally in much lower condition before getting a make-over and the B&B 28 is in un-restored 9.4 condition, which is the highest in the census and arguabally the best copy in the world (slabbed and un-slabbed). Getting a mid-grade Tec 27 and turning it into a frankenbook would be a much easier task to accomplish than getting a HG B&B 28 so in this case I will take the B&B 28 ....

 

what a good argument. yeah, as scarce as Tec 27s are, you could wait awhile and pick up a low grade copy and for a couple grand build a copy like this one. But youd wait a long time for another freak copy of BB28 in 9.4. The only question remaining is the demand side of the equation. I think the number of people whod want ANY copy of Tec27 is larger than those who want only the BEST BB28... for the $$$ involved that is.

 

Im aware this contest arose out of some harsh words spoken or perceived about the sale, but its an interesting contest, eh?

hello all...

not sure how well folks know the Tec 27 market, but even a fr will run you in excess of $30-40K just to touch these days...and then, can likely only be improved to the vg/fn range...

to get a book, extensive or not, improved to 8.5+ range, that book would likely have to be, as someone else stated, a 3.0 or better (probably 4.0 or better)...

Not true... it all depends on why the book originally grades at what. For example, you could probably restore a 1.5-2.5 with a huge tear to a 7.0 or better..

Again your ignorance of restoration methods and possiblities is showing Danny. Perhaps you should contact Matt Nelson or Susan C. to ask them how many 1.5 golden age books they restore to 8.5 with off-white pages.......

Not too many but it can be done and I am sure has been done in the past...

 

 

[ciorac]

 

Tough Call. You have the first appearance of Batman which is agruably the second most important comic in the history of comics, but we are focusing on the comic itself here which involves many factors including the condition. Now Tec 27 isnt scarce by a long shot. If I had the funds to collect such high end comics I could find a Tec 27 in less than a day where as the Brave and the Bold 28 isnt hard to find either but it is very difficult to find in HG and would be much more difficult to get. The Tec 27 is obviously a frankenbook which tells me that the book was originally in much lower condition before getting a make-over and the B&B 28 is in un-restored 9.4 condition, which is the highest in the census and arguabally the best copy in the world (slabbed and un-slabbed). Getting a mid-grade Tec 27 and turning it into a frankenbook would be a much easier task to accomplish than getting a HG B&B 28 so in this case I will take the B&B 28 ....

 

what a good argument. yeah, as scarce as Tec 27s are, you could wait awhile and pick up a low grade copy and for a couple grand build a copy like this one. But youd wait a long time for another freak copy of BB28 in 9.4. The only question remaining is the demand side of the equation. I think the number of people whod want ANY copy of Tec27 is larger than those who want only the BEST BB28... for the $$$ involved that is.

 

Im aware this contest arose out of some harsh words spoken or perceived about the sale, but its an interesting contest, eh?

hello all...

not sure how well folks know the Tec 27 market, but even a fr will run you in excess of $30-40K just to touch these days...and then, can likely only be improved to the vg/fn range...

to get a book, extensive or not, improved to 8.5+ range, that book would likely have to be, as someone else stated, a 3.0 or better (probably 4.0 or better)...

Not true... it all depends on why the book originally grades at what. For example, you could probably restore a 1.5-2.5 with a huge tear to a 7.0 or better..

Again your ignorance of restoration methods and possiblities is showing Danny. Perhaps you should contact Matt Nelson or Susan C. to ask them how many 1.5 golden age books they restore to 8.5 with off-white pages.......

Not too many but it can be done and I am sure has been done in the past...

 

 

And you know this how?

[MutantKeys]

 

Tough Call. You have the first appearance of Batman which is agruably the second most important comic in the history of comics, but we are focusing on the comic itself here which involves many factors including the condition. Now Tec 27 isnt scarce by a long shot. If I had the funds to collect such high end comics I could find a Tec 27 in less than a day where as the Brave and the Bold 28 isnt hard to find either but it is very difficult to find in HG and would be much more difficult to get. The Tec 27 is obviously a frankenbook which tells me that the book was originally in much lower condition before getting a make-over and the B&B 28 is in un-restored 9.4 condition, which is the highest in the census and arguabally the best copy in the world (slabbed and un-slabbed). Getting a mid-grade Tec 27 and turning it into a frankenbook would be a much easier task to accomplish than getting a HG B&B 28 so in this case I will take the B&B 28 ....

 

what a good argument. yeah, as scarce as Tec 27s are, you could wait awhile and pick up a low grade copy and for a couple grand build a copy like this one. But youd wait a long time for another freak copy of BB28 in 9.4. The only question remaining is the demand side of the equation. I think the number of people whod want ANY copy of Tec27 is larger than those who want only the BEST BB28... for the $$$ involved that is.

 

Im aware this contest arose out of some harsh words spoken or perceived about the sale, but its an interesting contest, eh?

hello all...

not sure how well folks know the Tec 27 market, but even a fr will run you in excess of $30-40K just to touch these days...and then, can likely only be improved to the vg/fn range...

to get a book, extensive or not, improved to 8.5+ range, that book would likely have to be, as someone else stated, a 3.0 or better (probably 4.0 or better)...

Not true... it all depends on why the book originally grades at what. For example, you could probably restore a 1.5-2.5 with a huge tear to a 7.0 or better..

Again your ignorance of restoration methods and possiblities is showing Danny. Perhaps you should contact Matt Nelson or Susan C. to ask them how many 1.5 golden age books they restore to 8.5 with off-white pages.......

Not too many but it can be done and I am sure has been done in the past...

 

 

And you know this how?

I'm assuming. Why dont I take a 9.8 of mine and rip half of the cover and then send it to Matt... Common sense :shrug:

[ciorac]

 

Tough Call. You have the first appearance of Batman which is agruably the second most important comic in the history of comics, but we are focusing on the comic itself here which involves many factors including the condition. Now Tec 27 isnt scarce by a long shot. If I had the funds to collect such high end comics I could find a Tec 27 in less than a day where as the Brave and the Bold 28 isnt hard to find either but it is very difficult to find in HG and would be much more difficult to get. The Tec 27 is obviously a frankenbook which tells me that the book was originally in much lower condition before getting a make-over and the B&B 28 is in un-restored 9.4 condition, which is the highest in the census and arguabally the best copy in the world (slabbed and un-slabbed). Getting a mid-grade Tec 27 and turning it into a frankenbook would be a much easier task to accomplish than getting a HG B&B 28 so in this case I will take the B&B 28 ....

 

what a good argument. yeah, as scarce as Tec 27s are, you could wait awhile and pick up a low grade copy and for a couple grand build a copy like this one. But youd wait a long time for another freak copy of BB28 in 9.4. The only question remaining is the demand side of the equation. I think the number of people whod want ANY copy of Tec27 is larger than those who want only the BEST BB28... for the $$$ involved that is.

 

Im aware this contest arose out of some harsh words spoken or perceived about the sale, but its an interesting contest, eh?

hello all...

not sure how well folks know the Tec 27 market, but even a fr will run you in excess of $30-40K just to touch these days...and then, can likely only be improved to the vg/fn range...

to get a book, extensive or not, improved to 8.5+ range, that book would likely have to be, as someone else stated, a 3.0 or better (probably 4.0 or better)...

Not true... it all depends on why the book originally grades at what. For example, you could probably restore a 1.5-2.5 with a huge tear to a 7.0 or better..

Again your ignorance of restoration methods and possiblities is showing Danny. Perhaps you should contact Matt Nelson or Susan C. to ask them how many 1.5 golden age books they restore to 8.5 with off-white pages.......

Not too many but it can be done and I am sure has been done in the past...

 

 

And you know this how?

I'm assuming. Why dont I take a 9.8 of mine and rip half of the cover and then send it to Matt... Common sense :shrug:

 

You have a 9.8 golden age book??? Then do it!!

[DrWatson]

You have a 9.8 golden age book???

Doesn't everybody?

[ciorac]

You have a 9.8 golden age book???

Doesn't everybody?

 

[G.A.tor]

I am going to have to echo Filter and Ciorac on this...generally, a 5 point jump with ext resto is about as good as you get or could possibly hope full, and this comes from actual books sumbitted to Matt and Susan for restoring and subsequent CGC grading...never, have I seen a 1.5 goto 8.5...I would say that the empirical evidence (versus MK common sense) prevails in this case....

gator

[DrWatson]

I am going to have to echo Filter and Ciorac on this...generally, a 5 point jump with ext resto is about as good as you get or could possibly hope full, and this comes from actual books sumbitted to Matt and Susan for restoring and subsequent CGC grading...never, have I seen a 1.5 goto 8.5...I would say that the empirical evidence (versus MK common sense) prevails in this case....

gator

[tth2]

I'm assuming. Why dont I take a 9.8 of mine and rip half of the cover and then send it to Matt... Common sense :shrug:

Methinks Danny has got you here, Bill.

[showcase4]

Let's try a mid grade GA key up against a high grade SA key....both sold within the past year for approx $39,000. Which one would you choose, and why???

Steve