fallen GA Keys of yesteryear........ 2 2

[lou_fine]

While fandom has always had a superhero bias when it comes to big books - it's clear that keys featuring strip superstars like Tarzan, Flash Gordon and Popeye once held their own - but are now largerly ignored. I think the main reason is while the characters are all still recognizable - little of today's comic fandom has a memory of regular exposure to them - they have become names from the past.

 

I would definitely agree with you here that the strip reprint books and these types of character related books have taken the biggest plunge relative to the continuing growth in the GA super hero market.

 

Just take a look at Feature Book #26 with the first appearance of Prince Valiant. This book was right up there with the other super hero keys and is now still sitting at only $1,400 in top of guide which is peanuts compared to what the other GA keys are now going for.

 

I would also expect to see this trend to continue into the future. Just take a look at the early Famous Funnies books and other Eastern Color books which invented the comic book concept and see how little they have gone up over the past few years. This slow price movement is also being extended to a lot of the early DC pre-hero books now.

 

These are my picks for the GA keys that have fallen the most relative to the rest of the GA market.

[Larryw7]

I think these things happen in cycles. It's inevitable that someone will try to revive Tarzan via a movie or television, and then there will be interest from collectors again. Tarzan, Captain Marvel, the Lone Ranger etc. are important pop culture icons, and will have their day in the sun again IMHO.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Doiby_Dickles

[ft88]

Four Color 9, WDCS 31 and the Barks March of Comics used to be monster books.

[lou_fine]

Four Color 9, WDCS 31 and the Barks March of Comics used to be monster books.

 

I thought the early Barks Duck books were still going for huge multiples to guide, especially when in grade.

 

I would venture to guess that the majority of the other fallen GA keys would have problems even acheiving full guide at this juncture in the marketplace.

[Theagenes]

Buck Rogers is another character that has fallen by the wayside. Once the phase "That Buck Rogers stuff" was the way most people referred to SF. Now the character hasn't had any popular exposure since the Gil Gerard show nearly thirty years ago.

 

 

[KirbyJack]

Alex Raymond and Hal Foster were huge deals back in the early 70's. They're still respected, but not so much collected. My Four Color #10 (1st full Raymond Flash Gordon comic) was once more valued than More Fun #52, but hasn't seen a price hike since about 1970.

 

As to All Star #3, I think this goes back to those early, Roy Thomas-type collectors who used to say you weren't a real golden age collector unless you had a full run of All Star . I haven't heard anyone say that for a while.

[MrBedrock]

There was a period in the early through the 80s where Timelys were not that highly thought of. By the later eighties Marvel 1 was a tough sell. And I was trading silver age for some of the later Timely books. In 1989 I traded a high grade (nm) Silver Surfer 1 for a copy of All Winners 19 that later slabbed 9.0.

The point is, every dog has its day.

While the following books were expensive at one time, every one of them have gone through periods of time where they would be tough to sell. That's the time when I like to buy them!

 

And most recently...

[Socratic Wonder]

 

 

[seank]

And most recently...

 

That might be my new favorite cover.

[PokerKid]

That Military 1 reminds me how much love I all the Blackhawk titles.

 

Isn't one of the most likely reasons for the demise of some of these simply what goes with Marvel coming into their own. Kids who were reading Boy Commandos in 1943 had pretty good paying jobs in the early '80s. Kids who grew up reading Spider-Man where flipping burgers. Now those burger flippers are getting a real check and collecting their childhood memories.

Some of the great characters that never went away still have awesome followings but few nowadays could tell you much about The Newsboy Legion.

 

[batman_fan]

Actually I think Steve's topic is interesting. I am wondering what other people think. I have one theory which is price increases because it is hot cause people to question the value relative to what they get. An example of this is Whiz 25, 1st Capatin Marvel Junior. I don't see it going for guide. Another is Detective 225. The prices have far outpaced the demand. This slowly makes these books become less desirable. I would say the Newsboy Legion (with the Guardian) is another example. Personally, I love the stories and artwork but there seems to be an endless supply of these available in high grade. Star Spangled 7 is one of my all time favorite covers!

[HouseofComics.Com]

I wonder how Captain Marvel would be seen today if Fawcett hadn't given up in the 1950s? If Fawcett was still publishing today and Cap had been published continually? That character was outselling Superman at one point. But almost 20 years with no regular issues and then brought back way too cartoony in the DC 1970s series and you've got trouble.

 

I wonder also if in the early years of fandom (say up until Byrne hit the X-Men) if Marvel was still thought of as too new (talking about all the 60s books) but by the 80s it was obvious that the company was here to stay and that the flagship titles had really proven themselves with 200+ issues. (Obviously Marvel was extremely popular almost from the get-go but I'm suggesting that a serious collector in 1970 might find it more challenging to go after Red Raven than a bunch of books less than ten years old, most of which he probably already had.)

 

Marc

[MrBedrock]

One of the books that was most discussed at the last Overstreet advisors meeting a few years back was Mystery Men #1. When it was guiding for around $3000 in the early to mid 90s it was one of the hottest books out there. 2X to 5X guide across the board for any condition. There was a ton of pressure to increase the price in the guide. As a result it was given a huge price bump in the late 90s of about 300% to $10000, realistic for the sales results of the time.

Interestingly enough, almost immediately it became a stagnant seller. A beautiful and historically important book, but considered too expensive by many. Recent sales have all been well below guide and some pedigree copies have languished a relatively low multiples. And now it would appear to fall into the catagory of those books like Military 1 or Whiz 25 etc.

This is especially odd considering that some of the other Mystery Men issues with Fine covers continue to sell consistently at above guide prices.

 

 

[Crowzilla]

One of the books that was most discussed at the last Overstreet advisors meeting a few years back was Mystery Men #1. When it was guiding for around $3000 in the early to mid 90s it was one of the hottest books out there. 2X to 5X guide across the board for any condition. There was a ton of pressure to increase the price in the guide. As a result it was given a huge price bump in the late 90s of about 300% to $10000, realistic for the sales results of the time.

Interestingly enough, almost immediately it became a stagnant seller. A beautiful and historically important book, but considered too expensive by many. Recent sales have all been well below guide and some pedigree copies have languished a relatively low multiples. And now it would appear to fall into the catagory of those books like Military 1 or Whiz 25 etc.

This is especially odd considering that some of the other Mystery Men issues with Fine covers continue to sell consistently at above guide prices.

 

 

I'm glad you remember that also Rich - check out This Discussion with more craziness from bluechip where he thinks the price on Mystery Men #1 was totally made-up when it was discussed before.

 

While I'm not a fan of many of the guide policies, I do think it's interesting that Fawcett's that sold for 50-60% of guide continue to do so today, even when they go up every year. That is probably one of the things that keeps interest alive - if the prices were to totally shut down waiting for the selling percentage to catch up it would most likely never happen.

 

Speaking of Fawcetts; I can't believe I forgot about this one in the discussion of overpriced books - Wow #1. In the late 70s this book was a top tenner that guided for twice as much as All American #16 and as much as Superman #1.

 

As for ducks, while they might continue to sell for multiples in high grade today, in Overstreet #9 duck books make up an astonishing 9 of the top 40 most valuable Golden Age books in the guide (and 10 if you count WDC&S #1). Pretty amazing, and while prices continue to rise they certainly haven't kept up that kind of pace.

[pennynike1]

I didn't see that anyone has mentioned All-Star #8. I realize that #3 has a large price tag affixed to it, but the 1st appearance of Wonder Woman makes that book the one that I would love to have. It doesn't seem to get a whole lot a hype compared to other early hero books.

 

I have a feeling that she was more popular back then than she is now, although I am sure she has a cult following now-a-days.

Edited April 27, 2008 by pennynike1

[Crowzilla]

No one has mentioned All-Star #8 because it doesn't really qualify. It has definitely gained a much bigger upward trend over the past 20 years than the 20 before it. In the 70s it was priced about the same as #2 or #4. It's now several multiples of those two books.

[DarrenSmith]

Big All-American

 

Skippy's Own Book of Comics

[pennynike1]

No one has mentioned All-Star #8 because it doesn't really qualify. It has definitely gained a much bigger upward trend over the past 20 years than the 20 before it. In the 70s it was priced about the same as #2 or #4. It's now several multiples of those two books.

 

(thumbs u

[batman_fan]

Big All-American

 

Skippy's Own Book of Comics

 

New York World's Fair 1940 and 1939 (although to a lesser degree)

[lou_fine]

One of the books that was most discussed at the last Overstreet advisors meeting a few years back was Mystery Men #1. When it was guiding for around $3000 in the early to mid 90s it was one of the hottest books out there. 2X to 5X guide across the board for any condition. There was a ton of pressure to increase the price in the guide. As a result it was given a huge price bump in the late 90s of about 300% to $10000, realistic for the sales results of the time.

Interestingly enough, almost immediately it became a stagnant seller. A beautiful and historically important book, but considered too expensive by many. Recent sales have all been well below guide and some pedigree copies have languished a relatively low multiples. And now it would appear to fall into the catagory of those books like Military 1 or Whiz 25 etc.

This is especially odd considering that some of the other Mystery Men issues with Fine covers continue to sell consistently at above guide prices.

 

 

I'm glad you remember that also Rich - check out This Discussion with more craziness from bluechip where he thinks the price on Mystery Men #1 was totally made-up when it was discussed before.

 

Richard & Sean;

 

Yes, I also remember all the furor over the Mystery Men #1 as it was one of the hot hot books at the time. Looking back, I guess this book is now considered to be the poster child for "bad" Overstreet price increases.

 

Since you and especially Richard was part of Overstreet's inner circle at the time, quite a few questions come up with respect to pricing in general, and on that book in particular:

 

1) Was you surprised at the jump that OS did when he bumped the book from $2,100 all the way to $8,500 (or 305%) in one fell swoop, especially considering OS's normal conservative pricing history?

 

2) At the time, did you think this price increase in the guide was a mistake on Overstreet's part or fully justified? Knowing what you know now, do you think this was a mistake looking backwards at its impact on the book?

 

3) Considering that this book is now priced at $17,500 top guide, do you think the price would be higher (or much more in demand) if OS had applied a more standard pricing approach to this book at the time (remembering that collectors like to chase after perceived "undervalued" books and avoid perceived "overvalued" or "fully valued" books.

 

4) If this meteoric price increae of 305% in one year was what killed the book, why did it not have the same impact on the only other book in Overstreet's Top 100 to experience the same kind of price increase......namely the Suspense #3. This book went from $2,000 up to $8,000 or 300% in the same year, and is now sitting at $30K in top guide and still able to sell for multiples to guide?

 

5) I assume the answer to #4 above would be due to the collector's mentality to chase after classic covers. Certainly can't be about scarcity since Suspense #3 has a total of 9 graded unrestored copies while MM#1 has only 4 graded unrestored copies with the top one at only a 6.5 condition. Any guesses as to what a HG unrestored copy say in the 9.0+ range would bring in today's cooler market for this book?

 

Point of reference.....a couple of other books that also took huge prices increases in that same year. Namely, Exciting Comics #9 which went from $1,100 up to $5,000 for a 355% increase; and Terrific Comics #5 from $700 up to $3,200 or an increase of 357%. Interesting to note that these huge increases did not slow the pace for these two books relative to MM#1, with Exciting #9 now sitting at $16,500 and Terrific #5 at $9,500.

 

6) Looking at the Exciting #9, it brings up another interesting question! Wasn't Exciting #9 and Startling Comics #10 thought to be companion books at one point in time as they both featured first appearances of Black Terror and Fighting Yank respectively? What was the thinking in the room at the time that resulted in the Exciting going from $1,100 up to $5,000 while the Startling went from $1,100 up to only $2,000? That's a hugh disparity that still exist today with one sitting at $16,500 while the other continues to languish at only $6,400, especially when many consider the Startling to actually be a tougher book to find (I believe the highest graded copy is only a 5.5).

 

Just some mind-numbing questions that popped up in my head on a slow moving Sunday and any opinions to the above questions would be greatly appreciated. (thumbs u

 

6)