Lone Star Comics (MyComicShop.com) is robbing me! Need advice! 2 2

[Broken Shakespear]

I know Buddy has been in business for a long time...

 

I think that's a big part of the problem: Buddy was active in fandom back in the '60s when "tight grading" wasn't really much of an issue, and he probably still grades very old school like lots of other collectors and dealers who have been doing this for 40+ years, and sees nothing wrong with it.

 

For better or worse (and I can see valid arguments on both sides of the debate), CGC ushered in a whole new era of grade-consciousness. Some old schoolers have adapted, and some haven't. The bottom line for me is that a high volume operation like Lone Star is NOT the kind of place where I'm likely to shop for HG material. But when it comes to mid-grade fillers in bulk at good prices, they've always been great for me...

 

Well, part of the problem is that he also claims to use Overstreet grading standards, and lists those standards (uses the 100 point scale from the first edition there, but on books sold, uses the 10 point scale, which is a contradiction).

 

So he states the standard to be used. Then he ships books that do not grade to that standard, so I think the "old school" arguement is out the window in this case.

 

Here are a couple of defects from the recent return. Keep in mind all books were ordered as NM:

 

One book had a piece of the cover missing. The Comics Code logo was on the right edge, and about a half of the logo had been ripped out and was gone.

 

Another book had a large water stain on the back cover (half-dollar sized) and a tear bigger than 1" on the cover.

 

5 more books all had cover tears 1" or longer on the covers.

 

And Lone Stars online grading standard states no tears on a NM book. No water stains. No pieces missing.

 

All the misgrades are clear cut, and there should be no question...

[comix4fun]

[

Yep, it was me.

 

If I remember correctly, it was my first or second order with them, and I returned probably about 15% of the books I ordered. I don't think I was being too strict--I ordered NM's, and was content with anything VF, since the price was right. I returned stained and torn books. They agreed with some of my returns, didn't with others, and politely invited me to not be a customer anymore.

 

It's really too bad. In the following 3 years, I probably would have bought 100's of books from them (there are probably 100 on the site right now I'd like a shot at), and even if I returned a similar percentage, I'd say everyone would have come out ahead--I'd have some nice books, and they'd have a few thousand of my dollars. Oh well.

 

...I too have been asked not to purchase from Lone Star as well,...basically the same story,..ordered about $1,000.00 in NM raw books 4 years ago,...mostly late silver early bronze DC's,....they were all in the 7.5-9.0 range and I requested to return them all,...got a full refund and was asked not to buy again,....I know Buddy has been in business for a long time but when it comes to grading he's really no better than Chuckles,...

 

 

My goodness, that's alot of people gettng banned.....this calls for action.

 

#1 we form a club..

 

 

#2 we get a uniform..

[Broken Shakespear]

Interesting read. I for one would not think about doing business with Lonestart (never heard of them prior to this thread). However, some observations.

 

1) trade vs cash is usually 50% so I understand that part of their thinking. Policy or not, there is a lot of precedents for that.

 

2) Broken Shakespear said he would not discuss this on the phone with them when they offered to call him, because he has limited time to spend with his wife and kids. Are you kidding me? Seriously folks. One phone call to resolve a dispute? Put the wife and kid on your lap while you talk. Geesh! You found time to post here and to package, mail, peruse and pick out comics on there site, etc.

 

3) In any business, there are unhappy customers. Most of the time you do the right thing, and bend over backwards to make them happy. HOWEVER, sometimes there are customers that know this and try to take advantage of it, so sometimes you as the seller, have to take a stand, regardless of the bad publicity that particular customer might generate your way. It is principal.

 

4) It seems to me that LoneStar (according to what I have read here and keeping in mind that "they" have not posted here) did take offense to their grading being trashed. Many do, including "us". Understandable. We have not seen the product referred to as being wrong.

 

5) If you are not buying CGC (notice I did not use the term professionally graded. That was intentional), you take the chance that the book may not be within 1 1/2 grades of where you thought it would be. Grading is subjective, especially through an online service. CGC and other companies can disagree that much, and they do it as their sole business.

 

6) One hundred dollars is not a lot of money to ANYONE. The principal does matter, but if 100 is a big deal to you, then you need to quit buying comic books and save.

 

7) Broken Shakespear also runs a "business". He states that he buys collections, sells the keys for a profit (at least twenty percent) and then sells the junk for whatever he can get or for trade. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, but he does say that it is junk. Would anyone expect to get 100% for comic book junk? If so, I have about twenty "Deaths of Robin" I will sell you at cover price.

 

8) being a retired cop, I can only say that in most situations, there is fault on both sides of every dispute. I see faults on the part of both parties here.

 

Still, the majority of the fault IMHO is on the part of LoneStar. Broken is a small business and LoneStar is much larger, therefore LoneStar should take the initiative to satisfy this particular customer in a reasonable manner and take the "loss" (miniscule to them) rather than have Broken take the loss (a little more than miniscule to him I guess). It is good business.

 

Of course, I ain't the brightest light on the Christmas tree, so maybe I am totally wrong, but I don't think so. If I had both of these parties in a room and I was mediating this situation, it would have been solved in minutes, to the satisfaction of both parties, with the exception that I believe they would both still want to do business with each other from now on. I think that Broken does and I bet that LoneStar might want to, if certain guidelines could be agreed upon.

 

If someone steals 5 bucks from me, I will do everyting in my power to make them regret doing that. But, if someone askes me for 5 bucks, then I will probably give it to them (heck, I know for sure I would) as how can you not give when asks for help, and live with yourself. That does not mean that ya'll can PM me or post, and ask me to send you five bucks. I ain't a fool and can tell when someone is attempting to make me look like a fool or they are genuine. So, don't even go there.

 

Bottom line. You should have taken the phone call Broken Shakespear, for starters, and gone from there. IMHO

 

I am glad that it worked out as it did, and I believe "they" will be doing bisiness with each other again in the future. It is like ex-wifes. They are never truly out of your life. (no, I don't have an ex. Been with my darling for 43 years

 

Again, I have to disagree on a few points

 

1) Each trade is a contract, and he can't just retroactively change the terms of that agreement, causing harm to me, just because it benefits him.

 

2) You have obviously never talked to Buddy. I have and he rambles on and on and you can't get a word in edge wise. It's akin to a telemarketing call, IMO.

 

4) Taking offense to, and acting irrationally are two different things though. I take offense to someone who takes up two parking spots to protect their new car. I don't take a baseball bat to it, which would be irrational. I have described some of the defects, and the misgrades are clear cut. Someone else also posted a link to a scan of a Lone Star misgrade, which is clearly misgraded too.

 

5) If you claim to use a common adopted grading standard like Overstreet, and you can't do better than grading withing 1 1/2 grades, then you don't need to be in the business. Opinions do differ, but you should at the worst, be within +/- 1/2 grade.

 

6) I disagree. A $100 is a lot of money. It's a night out at the movies with my family, or a trip to King's Island with my family, or it pays for my gas for a week to get to work, or its half a days wages. Why should I donate 4 hours of my life to help Lone Star make a profit, with no benefit to me?

 

7) I never said any of the books I traded were "junk". All I said is that they were slow moving. Many were moderns, and many were independents (Cerebus, Knights of the Diner Table, etc.). Neither means they are "junk". And occasionally, the were VF and NM silver age non-keys that just hadn't moved in a year, and I need the space, so I dumped them. These were definately not junk! A slow moving book does not mean it is junk.

[Broken Shakespear]

but I'm sorry...someone with his experience knows the difference between a 7.5 and a 9.4

 

I agree. It appears that between LSC and MH both are using the "quantity" defense as to the grading. Still, I think a "best practice" is not to use quantity dealers hoping to find gems. Good deals on decent copies, yes.

 

This is eactly the defense Lone Star uses. They claim they grade a large quantity of books. They can't look at each one of them really carefully unless they are high dollar. Occasionally something slips by.

 

I'm fine with that too, and understand it. It isn't an excuse to have a melt down when someone returns a book though...

 

And it isn't an excuse to have your lone CSR tell you one thing, and then the owner tell you another. Like I mentioned earlier, I still don't know if there really was a dispute over grading. His online manager told me Buddy had looked at the book and disagreed, and Buddy thought I still had the book. And he would never follow up and tell me if he had even seen the book or not.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Broken Shakespear

[Broken Shakespear]

First Comic Supply and now Lone Star...you are having a bad streak lately.

 

Yep, still don't have my Comic Supply order...

 

Thanks for reminding me that I need to follow up with them again, since they told me 2.5 weeks ago that my order would ship by the end of the week, and it still hasn't shipped...

[whomerjay]

As far as the "its only $100" I'm not saying he can't be pissed and air his grievence, but to take the time from his job and go to court over it or hire a lawyer is a bit much over $100 in the end. Its also a bit much that LS comics would do this over $100.

 

It goes both ways.

 

 

 

 

If you look at the bigger picture that was his business relationship with this company that turned on him it was thousands of dollars.

Even as a business you have to look at the whole monetary relationship every now and then and make a reassessment. In this case mycomicshop.com made a one and we need to make it known to them , by email, if they are too stupid to come to this forum.

 

 

Yeah, I can't begin to fathom how he built a business as big as Lone Star, with this kind of business sense.

 

I know that if I had someone who was selling me $1200 of books a year for credit (no money out of my pocket). And then I was selling those books for a 30% profit (and covering the 10-20% overhead) ($360 profit), and then he in turn, was buying another $1200 in product from me with the credit. Thus yielding me another $360 in profit on those sales.

 

So I have now made $720 because of this customer. Even if they return a batch of books every month for misgrade, and I have to eat $5 a month in return shipping, I would gladly still have them as a customer because I would still be making $660 in profit from them, ALL WITH NO MONEY OUT OF MY POCKET!

 

I was a cash cow for them. I didn't really t rack how much I traded very well, but I think it would be safe to say it was $1200-$2000 per year in trade credit.

 

Again, it just blows my mind that he can have a succesful business with this approach. Maybe if you were a customer who placed one order a year for $3, and every time returned your item and wanted a $3 shipping credit. Maybe if a customer is doing this chronically and you are losing money. Maybe then you ask them to go elsewhere. But not when they are a cash cow...

 

A few comments.

 

One, I think their position with you was not good business but based on their buy/trade structure, it is logical (they give half of trade value in cash) and only a rip off in that they are restricting your options. I would also take the $ because all of their CGC books are at twice GPA, so their new offer actually sucks.

 

Two, Moondog is right (and JC is just being a provoking dikk again). Take the $ and move on. Particularly in light of the fact that the cash option seems as good or better than the trade option, it is not worth the aggravation. Your bringing this matter to the boards gets you the measure of revenge you should need, as a bunch of people are now put off by Lone Stuff. Getting a lawyer on principle is foolish and a total waste of time, especially if we're talking Texas. You'll just be more pissed after a year.

 

Again, I never said I wanted a lawyer. I just asked if any lawyers on these boards could provide insight into the correct steps to take. Small claims court is per se.

 

And their prices weren't bad on the books I did get. One book was GPA +15%. The other was GPA 12 month average almost to the dollar. The last three books were all moderns and 9.8's, with one being $12.50, one $15 (a WWT variant cover), and the other $22.50 (which was about GPA + 20%), and two were the cost of slabbing or less.

 

I stand corrected. I looked at 4 books I would want (GA stuff I collect) and saw everything 2X GPA. Did not look at enough stuff I guess.

[sterlingcomics]

it swings both ways...

 

 

[sterlingcomics]

First Comic Supply and now Lone Star...you are having a bad streak lately.

 

Yep, still don't have my Comic Supply order...

 

Thanks for reminding me that I need to follow up with them again, since they told me 2.5 weeks ago that my order would ship by the end of the week, and it still hasn't shipped...

 

I'm scratching my head...I ordered last Friday and my product shipped yesterday... :shrug:

[Broken Shakespear]

As far as the "its only $100" I'm not saying he can't be pissed and air his grievence, but to take the time from his job and go to court over it or hire a lawyer is a bit much over $100 in the end. Its also a bit much that LS comics would do this over $100.

 

It goes both ways.

 

 

 

 

If you look at the bigger picture that was his business relationship with this company that turned on him it was thousands of dollars.

Even as a business you have to look at the whole monetary relationship every now and then and make a reassessment. In this case mycomicshop.com made a one and we need to make it known to them , by email, if they are too stupid to come to this forum.

 

 

Yeah, I can't begin to fathom how he built a business as big as Lone Star, with this kind of business sense.

 

I know that if I had someone who was selling me $1200 of books a year for credit (no money out of my pocket). And then I was selling those books for a 30% profit (and covering the 10-20% overhead) ($360 profit), and then he in turn, was buying another $1200 in product from me with the credit. Thus yielding me another $360 in profit on those sales.

 

So I have now made $720 because of this customer. Even if they return a batch of books every month for misgrade, and I have to eat $5 a month in return shipping, I would gladly still have them as a customer because I would still be making $660 in profit from them, ALL WITH NO MONEY OUT OF MY POCKET!

 

I was a cash cow for them. I didn't really t rack how much I traded very well, but I think it would be safe to say it was $1200-$2000 per year in trade credit.

 

Again, it just blows my mind that he can have a succesful business with this approach. Maybe if you were a customer who placed one order a year for $3, and every time returned your item and wanted a $3 shipping credit. Maybe if a customer is doing this chronically and you are losing money. Maybe then you ask them to go elsewhere. But not when they are a cash cow...

 

A few comments.

 

One, I think their position with you was not good business but based on their buy/trade structure, it is logical (they give half of trade value in cash) and only a rip off in that they are restricting your options. I would also take the $ because all of their CGC books are at twice GPA, so their new offer actually sucks.

 

Two, Moondog is right (and JC is just being a provoking dikk again). Take the $ and move on. Particularly in light of the fact that the cash option seems as good or better than the trade option, it is not worth the aggravation. Your bringing this matter to the boards gets you the measure of revenge you should need, as a bunch of people are now put off by Lone Stuff. Getting a lawyer on principle is foolish and a total waste of time, especially if we're talking Texas. You'll just be more pissed after a year.

 

Again, I never said I wanted a lawyer. I just asked if any lawyers on these boards could provide insight into the correct steps to take. Small claims court is per se.

 

And their prices weren't bad on the books I did get. One book was GPA +15%. The other was GPA 12 month average almost to the dollar. The last three books were all moderns and 9.8's, with one being $12.50, one $15 (a WWT variant cover), and the other $22.50 (which was about GPA + 20%), and two were the cost of slabbing or less.

 

I stand corrected. I looked at 4 books I would want (GA stuff I collect) and saw everything 2X GPA. Did not look at enough stuff I guess.

 

Ahh... now I see where you are coming from. GA stuff is more pricey, especially above 6.0. I looked at an All-Flash 6.0 book as a potential purchase to settle this dispute and it GPA'd around $180, and they were asking about $265. The price multiplier is even more at 7 and 8 grades.

[whomerjay]

Two, Moondog is right (and JC is just being a provoking dikk again). Take the $ and move on.

 

There is no right or wrong in a situation like this - it's all up to the OP on what he does.

 

If I got mugged for $100, I wouldn't care about the dollar amount, I'd pursue legal (and possibly illegal) remedies til my dying breath, just so that the perp thought twice before trying it on anyone else.

 

That's just me - I'm like the Energizer Bunny when I get rooked. Others are more easy-going, but it really comes down to doing what you need to, to sleep soundly at night.

 

If having money stolen from you is going to bother you, then do something about it. If not, then move along.

 

Pretty weak analogy. Just admit like everyone else you pick your fights. I'm sure your government is boning you in some manner and you're taking it just like we are.

[Broken Shakespear]

So "sue them" is always the initial reaction because it is the only binding mechanism of resolve. The only other option is to bend over and take it.

 

 

....or make the time to answer that phone call.

 

I look at it this way..

 

I contacted Buddy by e-mail.

 

He responded and said that he would rather handle the dispute via phone vs. e-mail.

 

I replied back that I would rather handle it via e-mail, and gave him a few reasons why (family, time, convience, etc.). I also like having the paper trail and record that e-mails provide. So if a problem isn't resolved, I can refer back to what was said and when, with no doubts.

 

So he wanted phone, and I, the customer wanted e-mail. Does that make me in the wrong in any way? Both are forms of communication, and I did indicate that I wanted to communicate with them about the issue, and was always willing to communicate.

[Guest]

Just read your last post Broken. I don't want to beat this horse anymore and I am not your enemy. I just want to say that I have boxes full of books like you described and I call them my "junk", because if I post them on Ebay or here for sale, unless they are poriced at fifty cents and in big lots, then they ain't gonna sell. That my friend is "junk", in the comic book world. There are probably many 9.8's and 9.9's there, but they are still junk unless you get that grade at a slabbing.

 

But, of course, One mans junk is another mans treasure. So...........................anybody want to buy some better than NM Killing Jokes?

[Broken Shakespear]

Two, Moondog is right (and JC is just being a provoking dikk again). Take the $ and move on.

 

There is no right or wrong in a situation like this - it's all up to the OP on what he does.

 

If I got mugged for $100, I wouldn't care about the dollar amount, I'd pursue legal (and possibly illegal) remedies til my dying breath, just so that the perp thought twice before trying it on anyone else.

 

That's just me - I'm like the Energizer Bunny when I get rooked. Others are more easy-going, but it really comes down to doing what you need to, to sleep soundly at night.

 

If having money stolen from you is going to bother you, then do something about it. If not, then move along.

 

Pretty weak analogy. Just admit like everyone else you pick your fights. I'm sure your government is boning you in some manner and you're taking it just like we are.

 

Come on... you have to take the government boning, because there is no one person to go after. You need a nuke...

[synch]

Two, Moondog is right (and JC is just being a provoking dikk again). Take the $ and move on.

 

There is no right or wrong in a situation like this - it's all up to the OP on what he does.

 

If I got mugged for $100, I wouldn't care about the dollar amount, I'd pursue legal (and possibly illegal) remedies til my dying breath, just so that the perp thought twice before trying it on anyone else.

 

That's just me - I'm like the Energizer Bunny when I get rooked. Others are more easy-going, but it really comes down to doing what you need to, to sleep soundly at night.

 

If having money stolen from you is going to bother you, then do something about it. If not, then move along.

 

Pretty weak analogy. Just admit like everyone else you pick your fights. I'm sure your government is boning you in some manner and you're taking it just like we are.

 

Come on... you have to take the government boning, because there is no one person to go after. You need a nuke...

 

I agree it is a great over reaction were this a comic shop & you going in person I don't think theres anyway that something like this would happen... Its just out right bad for biz... heck I work in retail I've put up with more S*** than this and not asked people to leave.. I've only ever done it once with a couple of teens who would come in at least once a week & ask me prices on stuf wasting my time with no intent to buy stuff cause they thought it was funny & this only after they did it about 7 times or so

[joeypost]

I trade books( junk) to Lone Star frequently, and these are some facts:

 

You can select trade or cash and cash is usually 50% of the trade value.

 

The grading is usually pretty bad. If not really bad.

 

Buddy will ban you for returning books. I don't think this is always a problem. I get the feeling it is only if Buddy is involved, I don't think he likes being told that he can't grade.

 

I think it was SilverandBronze that posted a couple of years ago about some Archies he returned and was consequently banned. He would have to varify that though as I'm going by memory about who it was.

 

I wish people would quit saying "It's only $100 dollars" To some people that is a hell of a lot of money, and it is about the GD principle anyway. The buyer should be allowed to fullfill the trade value in trade since that is what the original agreement was. If Buddy wants out of the agreement, he should buy out at 100% cash.

 

 

 

 

I agree with Mike here. Try and get the full $200 worth of credit from the store and then forget about it. $100 is a lot of money to some people, to others it is just not worth the hassle.

 

If you feel you were wronged I say fight it as far as necessary. Although, in this case you are dealing long distance and with someone who has already shown they are unreasonable.

 

If it were me I would cut my losses, chalk it up to a life lesson learned and the $100 lost now will seem like mouse nutts compared to the mistakes you will make (as we all do) late rin life.

[dena]

***some posts pulled for political content - no politics please***

[Mr.Diggler]

figured that was coming soon.

[Guest]

Ressurection: My last couple of posts were deleted, I guess because of my political statements, so I won't even try.

 

I will just say that I truly do wish the best for you and yours. If I can help in some way, PM me and I will do what I can. Walt.

[shadroch]

After having read thru this thread,what is missing is both BS's emails to Lone Star and their replies. It's curious that BS refuses to take a phone call to clear up the situation,in order to maintain records of the emails. Yet never presents a single email as evidence. I'd love to read the series of emails that went back and forth.

I have a feeling the content was as much a cause for the banning as the returns themselves.

[Guest]

P.S. We can drop the 100 dollars is a not a lot of money argument. I mad the comment in the aspect that fighting for that hundred will take even more money out of the mouths of your family. Wise decisions sometimes have to be made, regardless of your GD (as someone else put it) ego. Especially in hard times. Spending hundreds to satisfy your personal ego or macho, is not prudent, IF a hundred dollars is a lot of money to you and your family. If a hundred is not a lot of money to you, then have at it. I can understand THAT. I could travel to Texas from Ohio and beat the out of someone who done me wrong, or sue someone there that done me wrong, but it would be just for my ego and not for my financial status or in my families best interest. If you disagree with that, then okay, have a nice day. nuff said.