Lone Star Comics (MyComicShop.com) is robbing me! Need advice! 2 2

[ft88]

I don't think Moondog is promoting the poor standards at LS but is bemoaning the kneejerk reaction to bring out the Lawyers.

 

That attitude is a social ill IMO and probably Moondog's opinion as well as I read his post.

 

"What about the children?, will somebody please protect the CHILDREN?"

[shiverbones]

I guess I will be a lone voice here in saying I have only had good experiences dealing directly with Buddy on grading issues. Whether I sent a book in for trade and really disagreed on how they graded it, or have needed to return something, I have always gotten him on the phone & we have worked it out well.

[whomerjay]

As far as the "its only $100" I'm not saying he can't be pissed and air his grievence, but to take the time from his job and go to court over it or hire a lawyer is a bit much over $100 in the end. Its also a bit much that LS comics would do this over $100.

 

It goes both ways.

 

 

 

 

If you look at the bigger picture that was his business relationship with this company that turned on him it was thousands of dollars.

Even as a business you have to look at the whole monetary relationship every now and then and make a reassessment. In this case mycomicshop.com made a one and we need to make it known to them , by email, if they are too stupid to come to this forum.

 

 

Yeah, I can't begin to fathom how he built a business as big as Lone Star, with this kind of business sense.

 

I know that if I had someone who was selling me $1200 of books a year for credit (no money out of my pocket). And then I was selling those books for a 30% profit (and covering the 10-20% overhead) ($360 profit), and then he in turn, was buying another $1200 in product from me with the credit. Thus yielding me another $360 in profit on those sales.

 

So I have now made $720 because of this customer. Even if they return a batch of books every month for misgrade, and I have to eat $5 a month in return shipping, I would gladly still have them as a customer because I would still be making $660 in profit from them, ALL WITH NO MONEY OUT OF MY POCKET!

 

I was a cash cow for them. I didn't really t rack how much I traded very well, but I think it would be safe to say it was $1200-$2000 per year in trade credit.

 

Again, it just blows my mind that he can have a succesful business with this approach. Maybe if you were a customer who placed one order a year for $3, and every time returned your item and wanted a $3 shipping credit. Maybe if a customer is doing this chronically and you are losing money. Maybe then you ask them to go elsewhere. But not when they are a cash cow...

 

A few comments.

 

One, I think their position with you was not good business but based on their buy/trade structure, it is logical (they give half of trade value in cash) and only a rip off in that they are restricting your options. I would also take the $ because all of their CGC books are at twice GPA, so their new offer actually sucks.

 

Two, Moondog is right (and JC is just being a provoking dikk again). Take the $ and move on. Particularly in light of the fact that the cash option seems as good or better than the trade option, it is not worth the aggravation. Your bringing this matter to the boards gets you the measure of revenge you should need, as a bunch of people are now put off by Lone Stuff. Getting a lawyer on principle is foolish and a total waste of time, especially if we're talking Texas. You'll just be more pissed after a year.

[Guest]

Interesting read. I for one would not think about doing business with Lonestart (never heard of them prior to this thread). However, some observations.

 

1) trade vs cash is usually 50% so I understand that part of their thinking. Policy or not, there is a lot of precedents for that.

 

2) Broken Shakespear said he would not discuss this on the phone with them when they offered to call him, because he has limited time to spend with his wife and kids. Are you kidding me? Seriously folks. One phone call to resolve a dispute? Put the wife and kid on your lap while you talk. Geesh! You found time to post here and to package, mail, peruse and pick out comics on there site, etc.

 

3) In any business, there are unhappy customers. Most of the time you do the right thing, and bend over backwards to make them happy. HOWEVER, sometimes there are customers that know this and try to take advantage of it, so sometimes you as the seller, have to take a stand, regardless of the bad publicity that particular customer might generate your way. It is principal.

 

4) It seems to me that LoneStar (according to what I have read here and keeping in mind that "they" have not posted here) did take offense to their grading being trashed. Many do, including "us". Understandable. We have not seen the product referred to as being wrong.

 

5) If you are not buying CGC (notice I did not use the term professionally graded. That was intentional), you take the chance that the book may not be within 1 1/2 grades of where you thought it would be. Grading is subjective, especially through an online service. CGC and other companies can disagree that much, and they do it as their sole business.

 

6) One hundred dollars is not a lot of money to ANYONE. The principal does matter, but if 100 is a big deal to you, then you need to quit buying comic books and save.

 

7) Broken Shakespear also runs a "business". He states that he buys collections, sells the keys for a profit (at least twenty percent) and then sells the junk for whatever he can get or for trade. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, but he does say that it is junk. Would anyone expect to get 100% for comic book junk? If so, I have about twenty "Deaths of Robin" I will sell you at cover price.

 

8) being a retired cop, I can only say that in most situations, there is fault on both sides of every dispute. I see faults on the part of both parties here.

 

Still, the majority of the fault IMHO is on the part of LoneStar. Broken is a small business and LoneStar is much larger, therefore LoneStar should take the initiative to satisfy this particular customer in a reasonable manner and take the "loss" (miniscule to them) rather than have Broken take the loss (a little more than miniscule to him I guess). It is good business.

 

Of course, I ain't the brightest light on the Christmas tree, so maybe I am totally wrong, but I don't think so. If I had both of these parties in a room and I was mediating this situation, it would have been solved in minutes, to the satisfaction of both parties, with the exception that I believe they would both still want to do business with each other from now on. I think that Broken does and I bet that LoneStar might want to, if certain guidelines could be agreed upon.

 

If someone steals 5 bucks from me, I will do everyting in my power to make them regret doing that. But, if someone askes me for 5 bucks, then I will probably give it to them (heck, I know for sure I would) as how can you not give when asks for help, and live with yourself. That does not mean that ya'll can PM me or post, and ask me to send you five bucks. I ain't a fool and can tell when someone is attempting to make me look like a fool or they are genuine. So, don't even go there.

 

Bottom line. You should have taken the phone call Broken Shakespear, for starters, and gone from there. IMHO

 

I am glad that it worked out as it did, and I believe "they" will be doing bisiness with each other again in the future. It is like ex-wifes. They are never truly out of your life. (no, I don't have an ex. Been with my darling for 43 years

 

[jools&jim]

Interesting read. I for one would not think about doing business with Lonestart (never heard of them prior to this thread). However, some observations.

 

1) trade vs cash is usually 50% so I understand that part of their thinking. Policy or not, there is a lot of precedents for that.

 

2) Broken Shakespear said he would not discuss this on the phone with them when they offered to call him, because he has limited time to spend with his wife and kids. Are you kidding me? Seriously folks. One phone call to resolve a dispute? Put the wife and kid on your lap while you talk. Geesh! You found time to post here and to package, mail, peruse and pick out comics on there site, etc.

 

3) In any business, there are unhappy customers. Most of the time you do the right thing, and bend over backwards to make them happy. HOWEVER, sometimes there are customers that know this and try to take advantage of it, so sometimes you as the seller, have to take a stand, regardless of the bad publicity that particular customer might generate your way. It is principal.

 

4) It seems to me that LoneStar (according to what I have read here and keeping in mind that "they" have not posted here) did take offense to their grading being trashed. Many do, including "us". Understandable. We have not seen the product referred to as being wrong.

 

5) If you are not buying CGC (notice I did not use the term professionally graded. That was intentional), you take the chance that the book may not be within 1 1/2 grades of where you thought it would be. Grading is subjective, especially through an online service. CGC and other companies can disagree that much, and they do it as their sole business.

 

6) One hundred dollars is not a lot of money to ANYONE. The principal does matter, but if 100 is a big deal to you, then you need to quit buying comic books and save.

 

7) Broken Shakespear also runs a "business". He states that he buys collections, sells the keys for a profit (at least twenty percent) and then sells the junk for whatever he can get or for trade. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, but he does say that it is junk. Would anyone expect to get 100% for comic book junk? If so, I have about twenty "Deaths of Robin" I will sell you at cover price.

 

8) being a retired cop, I can only say that in most situations, there is fault on both sides of every dispute. I see faults on the part of both parties here.

 

Still, the majority of the fault IMHO is on the part of LoneStar. Broken is a small business and LoneStar is much larger, therefore LoneStar should take the initiative to satisfy this particular customer in a reasonable manner and take the "loss" (miniscule to them) rather than have Broken take the loss (a little more than miniscule to him I guess). It is good business.

 

Of course, I ain't the brightest light on the Christmas tree, so maybe I am totally wrong, but I don't think so. If I had both of these parties in a room and I was mediating this situation, it would have been solved in minutes, to the satisfaction of both parties, with the exception that I believe they would both still want to do business with each other from now on. I think that Broken does and I bet that LoneStar might want to, if certain guidelines could be agreed upon.

 

If someone steals 5 bucks from me, I will do everyting in my power to make them regret doing that. But, if someone askes me for 5 bucks, then I will probably give it to them (heck, I know for sure I would) as how can you not give when asks for help, and live with yourself. That does not mean that ya'll can PM me or post, and ask me to send you five bucks. I ain't a fool and can tell when someone is attempting to make me look like a fool or they are genuine. So, don't even go there.

 

Bottom line. You should have taken the phone call Broken Shakespear, for starters, and gone from there. IMHO

 

I am glad that it worked out as it did, and I believe "they" will be doing bisiness with each other again in the future. It is like ex-wifes. They are never truly out of your life. (no, I don't have an ex. Been with my darling for 43 years

 

[Rocketeer]

[

Yep, it was me.

 

If I remember correctly, it was my first or second order with them, and I returned probably about 15% of the books I ordered. I don't think I was being too strict--I ordered NM's, and was content with anything VF, since the price was right. I returned stained and torn books. They agreed with some of my returns, didn't with others, and politely invited me to not be a customer anymore.

 

It's really too bad. In the following 3 years, I probably would have bought 100's of books from them (there are probably 100 on the site right now I'd like a shot at), and even if I returned a similar percentage, I'd say everyone would have come out ahead--I'd have some nice books, and they'd have a few thousand of my dollars. Oh well.

 

...I too have been asked not to purchase from Lone Star as well,...basically the same story,..ordered about $1,000.00 in NM raw books 4 years ago,...mostly late silver early bronze DC's,....they were all in the 7.5-9.0 range and I requested to return them all,...got a full refund and was asked not to buy again,....I know Buddy has been in business for a long time but when it comes to grading he's really no better than Chuckles,...

[dudeman5000]

Interesting read. I for one would not think about doing business with Lonestart (never heard of them prior to this thread). However, some observations.

 

1) trade vs cash is usually 50% so I understand that part of their thinking. Policy or not, there is a lot of precedents for that.

 

2) Broken Shakespear said he would not discuss this on the phone with them when they offered to call him, because he has limited time to spend with his wife and kids. Are you kidding me? Seriously folks. One phone call to resolve a dispute? Put the wife and kid on your lap while you talk. Geesh! You found time to post here and to package, mail, peruse and pick out comics on there site, etc.

 

3) In any business, there are unhappy customers. Most of the time you do the right thing, and bend over backwards to make them happy. HOWEVER, sometimes there are customers that know this and try to take advantage of it, so sometimes you as the seller, have to take a stand, regardless of the bad publicity that particular customer might generate your way. It is principal.

 

4) It seems to me that LoneStar (according to what I have read here and keeping in mind that "they" have not posted here) did take offense to their grading being trashed. Many do, including "us". Understandable. We have not seen the product referred to as being wrong.

 

5) If you are not buying CGC (notice I did not use the term professionally graded. That was intentional), you take the chance that the book may not be within 1 1/2 grades of where you thought it would be. Grading is subjective, especially through an online service. CGC and other companies can disagree that much, and they do it as their sole business.

 

6) One hundred dollars is not a lot of money to ANYONE. The principal does matter, but if 100 is a big deal to you, then you need to quit buying comic books and save.

 

7) Broken Shakespear also runs a "business". He states that he buys collections, sells the keys for a profit (at least twenty percent) and then sells the junk for whatever he can get or for trade. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, but he does say that it is junk. Would anyone expect to get 100% for comic book junk? If so, I have about twenty "Deaths of Robin" I will sell you at cover price.

 

8) being a retired cop, I can only say that in most situations, there is fault on both sides of every dispute. I see faults on the part of both parties here.

 

Still, the majority of the fault IMHO is on the part of LoneStar. Broken is a small business and LoneStar is much larger, therefore LoneStar should take the initiative to satisfy this particular customer in a reasonable manner and take the "loss" (miniscule to them) rather than have Broken take the loss (a little more than miniscule to him I guess). It is good business.

 

Of course, I ain't the brightest light on the Christmas tree, so maybe I am totally wrong, but I don't think so. If I had both of these parties in a room and I was mediating this situation, it would have been solved in minutes, to the satisfaction of both parties, with the exception that I believe they would both still want to do business with each other from now on. I think that Broken does and I bet that LoneStar might want to, if certain guidelines could be agreed upon.

 

If someone steals 5 bucks from me, I will do everyting in my power to make them regret doing that. But, if someone askes me for 5 bucks, then I will probably give it to them (heck, I know for sure I would) as how can you not give when asks for help, and live with yourself. That does not mean that ya'll can PM me or post, and ask me to send you five bucks. I ain't a fool and can tell when someone is attempting to make me look like a fool or they are genuine. So, don't even go there.

 

Bottom line. You should have taken the phone call Broken Shakespear, for starters, and gone from there. IMHO

 

I am glad that it worked out as it did, and I believe "they" will be doing bisiness with each other again in the future. It is like ex-wifes. They are never truly out of your life. (no, I don't have an ex. Been with my darling for 43 years

 

Great post!

 

Chris

[sterlingcomics]

I know Buddy has been in business for a long time but when it comes to grading he's really no better than Chuckles,...

 

itsy bitsy better...I've actually had two graded 9.4 as NM.

[joe_collector]

Two, Moondog is right (and JC is just being a provoking dikk again). Take the $ and move on.

 

There is no right or wrong in a situation like this - it's all up to the OP on what he does.

 

If I got mugged for $100, I wouldn't care about the dollar amount, I'd pursue legal (and possibly illegal) remedies til my dying breath, just so that the perp thought twice before trying it on anyone else.

 

That's just me - I'm like the Energizer Bunny when I get rooked. Others are more easy-going, but it really comes down to doing what you need to, to sleep soundly at night.

 

If having money stolen from you is going to bother you, then do something about it. If not, then move along.

[Rocketeer]

I know Buddy has been in business for a long time but when it comes to grading he's really no better than Chuckles,...

 

itsy bitsy better...I've actually had two graded 9.4 as NM.

 

...I agree,...previously to my "bannishment order" I did have limited sucess with him on raw NM's,...I'd say of about 20 books I purchased about 40% were true NM's,..those books I subbed to CGC and 3 out of 4 of the came back 9.4's......the rest were in the 7.5-9.0 range and I didn't even sub them,....but I'm sorry...someone with his experience knows the difference between a 7.5 and a 9.4

[Old Fashion PB and J]

6) One hundred dollars is not a lot of money to ANYONE. The principal does matter, but if 100 is a big deal to you, then you need to quit buying comic books and save.

 

 

I hereby resign from collecting comics. So that I can save my money from now on. When I can once again rely upon my goverment to not EFF up the economy so bad that people in my area can not afford to have contractors work at there house, therefore taking away my source of income. Only then may I consider buying another comic. What was I ever thinking anyways. I mean mess im unemployed with no eligibility for unemployment, and it is my own fault. I should have taken money and joined speculators in also destroying my countries economy.

 

 

Oh and also thank G.W.Bush for NOT sending my Fiancee her Stimulus check because that $600.00 is 6 times as worthless, and would not have helped pay for our wedding. Thank you so much for the insight.

[jools&jim]

I know Buddy has been in business for a long time...

 

I think that's a big part of the problem: Buddy was active in fandom back in the '60s when "tight grading" wasn't really much of an issue, and he probably still grades very old school like lots of other collectors and dealers who have been doing this for 40+ years, and sees nothing wrong with it.

 

For better or worse (and I can see valid arguments on both sides of the debate), CGC ushered in a whole new era of grade-consciousness. Some old schoolers have adapted, and some haven't. The bottom line for me is that a high volume operation like Lone Star is NOT the kind of place where I'm likely to shop for HG material. But when it comes to mid-grade fillers in bulk at good prices, they've always been great for me...

[sterlingcomics]

but I'm sorry...someone with his experience knows the difference between a 7.5 and a 9.4

 

I agree. It appears that between LSC and MH both are using the "quantity" defense as to the grading. Still, I think a "best practice" is not to use quantity dealers hoping to find gems. Good deals on decent copies, yes.

[Broken Shakespear]

I don't think Moondog is promoting the poor standards at LS but is bemoaning the kneejerk reaction to bring out the Lawyers.

 

That attitude is a social ill IMO and probably Moondog's opinion as well as I read his post.

 

"What about the children?, will somebody please protect the CHILDREN?"

 

Society has imposed the need for lawyers. It is the culture the US has chose to develop.

 

120 years ago, had this same dispute arisen, I would have rode my horse down to Texas, called Buddy out, and filled him full of hot lead if he didn't make it right. No one would have questioned you, thought less of you, or arrested you for having done so.

 

But today, ride down in your car, shoot him, and spend the rest of your life in jail, because society has decided that is not a civil way to resolve a dispute. And there is no mechanism in place, where you can force someone into an impartial arbitration, other than the court system.

 

So "sue them" is always the initial reaction because it is the only binding mechanism of resolve. The only other option is to bend over and take it.

[Shootydog]

I know Buddy has been in business for a long time...

 

I think that's a big part of the problem: Buddy was active in fandom back in the '60s when "tight grading" wasn't really much of an issue, and he probably still grades very old school like lots of other collectors and dealers who have been doing this for 40+ years, and sees nothing wrong with it.

 

For better or worse (and I can see valid arguments on both sides of the debate), CGC ushered in a whole new era of grade-consciousness. Some old schoolers have adapted, and some haven't. The bottom line for me is that a high volume operation like Lone Star is NOT the kind of place where I'm likely to shop for HG material. But when it comes to mid-grade fillers in bulk at good prices, they've always been great for me...

 

My LCS is the same way. He has been doing this for a looong time and is highly critical of the CGC way of things. He stands by his grades but I think he grades a bit too freely and the OSPG is his bible but hes got a great selection of product. I think overall collectors today are much more strict in the grading and he hasn't "moved on" so to speak.

[sterlingcomics]

First Comic Supply and now Lone Star...you are having a bad streak lately.

[joe_collector]

120 years ago, had this same dispute arisen, I would have rode my horse down to Texas, called Buddy out, and filled him full of hot lead if he didn't make it right.

 

I need to build a time machine.

[Broken Shakespear]

As far as the "its only $100" I'm not saying he can't be pissed and air his grievence, but to take the time from his job and go to court over it or hire a lawyer is a bit much over $100 in the end. Its also a bit much that LS comics would do this over $100.

 

It goes both ways.

 

 

 

 

If you look at the bigger picture that was his business relationship with this company that turned on him it was thousands of dollars.

Even as a business you have to look at the whole monetary relationship every now and then and make a reassessment. In this case mycomicshop.com made a one and we need to make it known to them , by email, if they are too stupid to come to this forum.

 

 

Yeah, I can't begin to fathom how he built a business as big as Lone Star, with this kind of business sense.

 

I know that if I had someone who was selling me $1200 of books a year for credit (no money out of my pocket). And then I was selling those books for a 30% profit (and covering the 10-20% overhead) ($360 profit), and then he in turn, was buying another $1200 in product from me with the credit. Thus yielding me another $360 in profit on those sales.

 

So I have now made $720 because of this customer. Even if they return a batch of books every month for misgrade, and I have to eat $5 a month in return shipping, I would gladly still have them as a customer because I would still be making $660 in profit from them, ALL WITH NO MONEY OUT OF MY POCKET!

 

I was a cash cow for them. I didn't really t rack how much I traded very well, but I think it would be safe to say it was $1200-$2000 per year in trade credit.

 

Again, it just blows my mind that he can have a succesful business with this approach. Maybe if you were a customer who placed one order a year for $3, and every time returned your item and wanted a $3 shipping credit. Maybe if a customer is doing this chronically and you are losing money. Maybe then you ask them to go elsewhere. But not when they are a cash cow...

 

A few comments.

 

One, I think their position with you was not good business but based on their buy/trade structure, it is logical (they give half of trade value in cash) and only a rip off in that they are restricting your options. I would also take the $ because all of their CGC books are at twice GPA, so their new offer actually sucks.

 

Two, Moondog is right (and JC is just being a provoking dikk again). Take the $ and move on. Particularly in light of the fact that the cash option seems as good or better than the trade option, it is not worth the aggravation. Your bringing this matter to the boards gets you the measure of revenge you should need, as a bunch of people are now put off by Lone Stuff. Getting a lawyer on principle is foolish and a total waste of time, especially if we're talking Texas. You'll just be more pissed after a year.

 

Again, I never said I wanted a lawyer. I just asked if any lawyers on these boards could provide insight into the correct steps to take. Small claims court is per se.

 

And their prices weren't bad on the books I did get. One book was GPA +15%. The other was GPA 12 month average almost to the dollar. The last three books were all moderns and 9.8's, with one being $12.50, one $15 (a WWT variant cover), and the other $22.50 (which was about GPA + 20%), and two were the cost of slabbing or less.

[Forbush-Man]

So "sue them" is always the initial reaction because it is the only binding mechanism of resolve. The only other option is to bend over and take it.

 

 

....or make the time to answer that phone call.

[Broken Shakespear]

I know Buddy has been in business for a long time but when it comes to grading he's really no better than Chuckles,...

 

itsy bitsy better...I've actually had two graded 9.4 as NM.

 

And I had one of their 8.5's graded as a 7.0, so it swings both ways...