Do You Want Fries With That?

[DrWatson]

 Originally Posted By: nik

Good lord

 

Let me try this again. If people are so worried whether a book sitting in a slab has been pressed or not, you can go to shows,LCS, and pick up raw books. Are they pressed, most likely not because they are being sold raw and or most often than not come from OO collections that have been purchased.

 

Speaking for myself, I have picked up well over two thousand raw, yes raw, yes un fuggin pressed books through my LCS and others that were OO books.

 

Some of you guys are so untrusting that it amazes me why the hell you are still in this hobby.

 

And hasn't there been several posts in this thread that state that many/most pressed books can be detected. Apparently fairly easily.

Yes, perhaps Susan can spearhead a seminar on how to detect pressed books since, according to information posted here, her accuracy rate is at 100%.

[underthebigw]

 Originally Posted By: joe_collector

 Originally Posted By: buttock

I forgot we have our resident expert in all things. Tell us, JC, how exactly did you acquire such knowledge?

 

It's an interesting little thing called PHYSICS - I highly recommend it to everyone.

 

There is absolutely no way that any natural stacking/packing could ever equal a pro-pressed book, with heat, moisture and localized pressure. It's physically impossible, and most people understand that.

 

Otherwise, Matt could easily be replaced with a big stack of books.

 

Alright, I'm calling you on this one genius. Please, oh PLEASE explain to us all the exact physics principles you're invoking here. Since "most people understand" this, it should be quite easy for you. And don't do your little dance around the question. Explain the physics or STFU.

I don't mean to be snide--OK, maybe snide--but not malicious--stick your hand under a long box placed on it's end. Then stick it in a book vice or book press. One will hurt. One won't. Then add heat and moisture to the one that hurts. Not the same thing.Again, I don't oppose this for books that reap huge gains in improved appearance, but when it comes to streching a grade in an already sweet SA or BA book purely for resale, I think it's BS.

[joe_collector]

Alright, I'm calling you on this one genius. Please, oh PLEASE explain to us all the exact physics principles you're invoking here. Since "most people understand" this, it should be quite easy for you. And don't do your little dance around the question. Explain the physics or STFU.

 

It's obvious from this you don't have the faintest clue about how pro pressing is actually done, so I would recommend you do a little research on the subject (ask Ze for a quick primer) and then come back with more pointed questions.

 

There are significant differences between packing a comic in a box and what Matt and others do to a "professionally pressed" book, and it's pretty obvious stuff. Stuff like heat, moisture, PSI, localized pressure, etc. - but again, if you have no clue about any of this, then I simply don't have the time to spend explaining it all to a true neophyte.

 

And it's no "dance", but if you *truly* believe there is absolutely no difference between comic stacking and pro-pressing, then I kinda feel like a NASA engineer being asked "what rocket ship?" by a neanderthal.

[joe_collector]

I don't mean to be snide--OK, maybe snide--but not malicious--stick your hand under a long box placed on it's end. Then stick it in a book vice or book press. One will hurt. One won't. Then add heat and moisture to the one that hurts.

 

 

Please Lord, make him think it's all BS and try it out for himself.

[joe_collector]

Yes, perhaps Susan can spearhead a seminar on how to detect pressed books since, according to information posted here, her accuracy rate is at 100%.

 

Yeah, and CGC has proven that its resto detection is 100%, right?

[delekkerste]

If you can't tell, then why do you care?

 

Is it OK to buy conflict diamonds if you plead ignorance as to where they came from? Is it OK for a real estate agent to not tell you that the house you're looking at used to belong to a serial killer because they got all the bloodstains out? Is it OK if your wife sleeps around on you if you don't know about it? Sometimes what's been done to something and/or where something has come from on its way to your hands matters, even if you can't tell.

 

I'm sure there are instances where pressing can be justified, but the now rampant practice for the pursuit of extra $$$ just turns my stomach. I'm in this hobby for the fun of it, as a nostalgic reminder of more innocent times - I'm no more in favor of unnecessary pressing than I am for unnecessary plastic surgery. :doh:

 

Just leave well enough alone!!

[DrWatson]

 Originally Posted By: buttock

If you can't tell, then why do you care?

 

Is it OK to buy conflict diamonds if you plead ignorance as to where they came from? Is it OK for a real estate agent to not tell you that the house you're looking at used to belong to a serial killer because they got all the bloodstains out? Is it OK if your wife sleeps around on you if you don't know about it? Sometimes what's been done to something and/or where something has come from on its way to your hands matters, even if you can't tell.

 

I'm sure there are instances where pressing can be justified, but the now rampant practice for the pursuit of extra $$$ just turns my stomach. I'm in this hobby for the fun of it, as a nostalgic reminder of more innocent times - I'm no more in favor of unnecessary pressing than I am for unnecessary plastic surgery.

To equate comic book pressing with those things you just listed is ridiculous.

[Fazybones]

I normally stay away from these pressing threads because I

feel I lack the knowledge and experience to add anything to

the conversation.

 

I know I've always wanted atleast one 9.8 for my collection

and on my current budget it was going to be a BA book.

After reading Matt's rollback of the years for 12.00 $ I no

longer have any desire whatsoever to make some seller

more money on a manufactured 9.8.

 

I understand Nick's frustration and the more I learn about this

hobby the less enjoyment I seem to get from it. Like most

things in this world money and greed will eventually ruin this

hobby even more.

 

I hope and pray Nick doesn't leave and this hobby needs all

the honest good guys with integrity to stay. I know I'm sticking

to my raw VFs to VF/NM if I'm lucky so I can still carefully

read, feel and smell that wonderful smell of a well cared for

comic.

 

I still like slabs for the odd special book and I purposely try

to buy only 9.0 to 9.2 and to me they are still beautiful books

and very special to me. If I was rich I might change my mind

but I hope not.

 

I do understand why a GA collector might want to press out

some flaw to improve the look of their books and I think with

SA/BA collectors it's all just a way to make more money

either immediately or down the road when they change their

collecting focus.

 

 

Carry on.

[Bronty]

 Originally Posted By: DrWatson

Yes, perhaps Susan can spearhead a seminar on how to detect pressed books since, according to information posted here, her accuracy rate is at 100%. <br /><br />

 

Yeah, and CGC has proven that its resto detection is 100%, right?

If I ever buy any expensive books again, they will all be purple label. IMO all the garbage around this hobby has made me lose confidence in the blue label completely and I'd far rather pay a fraction for something I know is restored than pay multiples for something that could just as easily be restored, pressed, or trimmed but undetected.We've seen far too many examples on these boards of books that were "improved" in one way or another but are sitting in blue labels. Sorry but people paying these kinds of multiples for blue label high grade are suckers at this point given all the *fork* that's been's proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

[DrWatson]

 Originally Posted By: DrWatson

Yes, perhaps Susan can spearhead a seminar on how to detect pressed books since, according to information posted here, her accuracy rate is at 100%. <br /><br />

 

Yeah, and CGC has proven that its resto detection is 100%, right?

Yes, just like you've proven you are an assclown 100%

[Monkeyman]

 Originally Posted By: Monkeyman

 

The problem is that I can tell the difference between raw and slabbed, DC and Marvel, SA and GA from a scan. I can't tell if a book has been pressed from a scan. So how am I going to go about enjoying what I collect, which is, among other things, unpressed books, when the pressing isn't disclosed?

 

Mike

 

If you can't tell whether the book has been pressed or not, why does it matter?

See bold above. You are assuming that I leave the books in the slabs. I bought a couple of books from Ewert a few years ago and, once I broke them out of the slabs, I literally had to peel the covers off the front pages. At the time I didn't know about pressing and wondered what was going on. You may find pressed books that open up normally, but is only because the presser unstuck everything before sending it back to you.Mike

[Monkeyman]

 Originally Posted By: Monkeyman

 Originally Posted By: nik

We have:

 

DC collectors vs. Marvel Collectors

 

SA collectors vs GA collectors

 

HG collectors vs Any Grade collectors

 

Slab collectors vs Raw collectors

 

People selling/trading for the pure enjoyment vs Sellers squeezing whatever they can

 

Overgraders vs Undergraders

 

Honest people vs Dishonest people

 

Pro-pressing vs Anti-pressing

 

and so on......

 

Point is stick to whatever and however you collect and don't

dwell about the other side of the fence. Enjoy what and how you collect and don't worry about Joe Schmoe from the other side, this is not a matter of life and death.

 

The problem is that I can tell the difference between raw and slabbed, DC and Marvel, SA and GA from a scan. I can't tell if a book has been pressed from a scan. So how am I going to go about enjoying what I collect, which is, among other things, unpressed books, when the pressing isn't disclosed?

 

Mike

 

If you can't tell, then why do you care?

See bold above. You are assuming that I leave the books in the slabs. I bought a couple of books from Ewert a few years ago and, once I broke them out of the slabs, I literally had to peel the covers off the front pages. At the time I didn't know about pressing and wondered what was going on. You may find pressed books that open up normally, but is only because the presser unstuck everything before sending it back to you.Mike

[nik]

 Originally Posted By: joe_collector

 Originally Posted By: DrWatson

Yes, perhaps Susan can spearhead a seminar on how to detect pressed books since, according to information posted here, her accuracy rate is at 100%. <br /><br />

 

Yeah, and CGC has proven that its resto detection is 100%, right?

Yes, just like you've proven you are an assclown 100%

Not to take anything away from Susan as I am sure she is good at her profession. 100% off the time accurate? Even the anti pressers cannot truly believe this claim.

[delekkerste]

To equate comic book pressing with those things you just listed is ridiculous.

 

Nobody's equating anything, just making a point.

 

I'm opposed to the rampant proliferation of greed in this hobby, of which unnecessary pressing for profit is a prime symptom. I see enough of that here in NYC. Comics are supposed to be my sanctuary away from all the petty douchebags I run into here and instead I find that there are more greedy and ethically-challenged people in our hobby than on Wall Street.

[MrBedrock]

 Originally Posted By: arexcrooke

You do realize, as shocking as it might seem, that you cant tell the difference between a pressed and non-pressed book, correct? I mean seriously, your hyperbole is based on ignorance or how and what pressing actually does.

 

Either that, or you are deliberatly being obtuse to be over the top with your characterization of pressing and your dissproval of the process

 

Susan Ciconne says she can tell the difference...on all books.

Susan is a wonderful person, and it was really nice seeing her in San Diego and catching up. She also does an incredible job of restoring paper. But (and you knew there was going to be a but) there is no way she could possibly stand behind that assertion. It is simply not possible to detect some methods of pressing on some types of defects. I am sure she could spot each and every bad pressing job, but if she thinks she can spot each and every good pressing job then she is more out of touch with the process then she is willing to admit.

[COI]

 Originally Posted By: Monkeyman

 Originally Posted By: nik

We have:

 

DC collectors vs. Marvel Collectors

 

SA collectors vs GA collectors

 

HG collectors vs Any Grade collectors

 

Slab collectors vs Raw collectors

 

People selling/trading for the pure enjoyment vs Sellers squeezing whatever they can

 

Overgraders vs Undergraders

 

Honest people vs Dishonest people

 

Pro-pressing vs Anti-pressing

 

and so on......

 

Point is stick to whatever and however you collect and don't

dwell about the other side of the fence. Enjoy what and how you collect and don't worry about Joe Schmoe from the other side, this is not a matter of life and death.

 

The problem is that I can tell the difference between raw and slabbed, DC and Marvel, SA and GA from a scan. I can't tell if a book has been pressed from a scan. So how am I going to go about enjoying what I collect, which is, among other things, unpressed books, when the pressing isn't disclosed?

 

Mike

 

If you can't tell, then why do you care?

Maybe it's the principle? Maybe I don't like getting squeezed for every disposable penny I've got when I'm trying to build a collection for myself, just so a certain BSD can get every Marvel in 9.6/9.8? Rape victims typically don't enjoy the experience as much as the rapists do.

[joe_collector]

The pressing threads always get out of hand...

 

On one side we have the dealers who stand to profit most, the collectors and investors who are sitting on a pile of CGC 9.6 - 9.8 nosebleed books, and the various "enablers" who profit from this practice, from Matt to CGC.

 

On the other we have the majority of the collector base, who finds this practice unsavory, and fears that rampant pressing-greed will cause the house of cards to come tumbling down and send the hobby into another dark age.

 

Neither side will see the other's point-of-view, as one sees "live for today" money to be made no matter the consequences to the hobby, while the other unrealistically hopes for sanity in a world where a $15 press can yield thousands of dollars in return.

 

[joe_collector]

 

Sure, and CGC readily admits they cannot detect 100% of resto jobs, and as we've seen, the techniques are getting so sophisticated, CGC will likely fall behind even further.

 

But does that mean you stop trying? Since CGC doesn't have a 100% resto detection record, should they just throw up their arms and put everything in a Blue label?

 

Is that really what you're saying?

[DrWatson]

The pressing threads always get out of hand...

 

On one side we have the dealers who stand to profit most, the collectors and investors who are sitting on a pile of CGC 9.6 - 9.8 nosebleed books, and the various "enablers" who profit from this practice, from Matt to CGC.

 

On the other we have the majority of the collector base, who finds this practice unsavory, and fears that rampant pressing-greed will cause the house of cards to come tumbling down and send the hobby into another dark age.

 

Neither side will see the other's point-of-view, as one sees "live for today" money to be made no matter the consequences to the hobby, while the other unrealistically hopes for sanity in a world where a $15 press can yield thousands of dollars in return.

 

That post is nothing but a hogwash of gibberish based on your own personal opinion with absolutely no basis in fact.

[agro23]

I have had many of the books in my collection pressed. And I assure you I have no intention of selling them.

(thumbs u