Wrong printing discovered in Returned PGX Graded Book- Do I have legal options?

[TupennyConan]

...you don't know me well at all. (thumbs u

 

I'll pass on the getting to know you very well part, thanks.

[Domo Arigato]

[DrWatson]

...you don't know me well at all. (thumbs u

 

I'll pass on the getting to know you very well part, thanks.

Bill,

 

Nick is a very stand up guy and Stephen isn't exactly in the right in this scenario. I know you like Stephen and want to defend him, I do too. But, this is not the way to go about it.

 

Jim

[TupennyConan]

...you don't know me well at all. (thumbs u

 

I'll pass on the getting to know you very well part, thanks.

Bill,

 

Nick is a very stand up guy and Stephen isn't exactly guilt free in this scenario. I know you like Stephen and want to defend him, I do too. But, this is not the way to go about it.

 

Jim

 

1. I did not comment on KoR's actions.

 

2. I did not comment on FT's research & dissemination of those actions.

 

3. I did comment on FT's attack upon KoR's character.

 

4. I & every other reader on the Boards can draw their own conclusions about 1 & 2.

 

5. FT's defense of his attack amounted to: "He started it."

 

6. If by "little friend" FT means to impugn KoR's age or wisdom or maturity, then FT might wish to behave as an adult himself & not resort to the playground defense of "he started it".

 

7. If you like FT, then maybe I'll like him one day too. Just not so much today. Thanks Jim.

[DrWatson]

If the damaged happened in the slab, why wouldn't the original owner return the book to CGC and say, "Look-it, my book got damaged in the slab."

 

Irrelevant.

 

The original seller sold it with full disclosure and close up photos of the damage. His choice.

 

The buyer then attempted to sell it on without. Also his choice.

 

Just wondering whether this choice qualifies as 'underhanded', as this was the word being casually bandied about last night?

I wasn't necessarily asking within the context of the situation here. Just in general.

 

I do agree with you here as I saw the original post where the book was sold and the damage highlighted.

 

Was it an underhanded act to sell the book without the same level of disclosure? Well, underhanded might be a strong word. I would call it neglectful.

 

I would call it neither. I didn't "have" to say anything with regard to my opinion on the book. Like I said before, if anyone detests the disclaimer, you can be a true comic industry crusader and save some buyer from falling into some apparent trap I have created...by buying the book yourself and selling it with whatever disclaimer you please.

 

I'd say the Flaming guy should buy it because he likes to be the crazed, "look at me" attention-whore crusader whenever possible.

Stephen,

 

If that's the attitude you want to take, then that's fine. You are an adult and can make your own choices. Just like the rest of us. We can chose who we want to continue to do business with and who we don't. It's regrettable. If the shoe were on the other foot, we would be seeing a, "Look what this tool sold me!" thread in Comics General.

 

Good luck with your future business,

 

Jim

[DrWatson]

...you don't know me well at all. (thumbs u

 

I'll pass on the getting to know you very well part, thanks.

Bill,

 

Nick is a very stand up guy and Stephen isn't exactly guilt free in this scenario. I know you like Stephen and want to defend him, I do too. But, this is not the way to go about it.

 

Jim

 

1. I did not comment on KoR's actions.

 

2. I did not comment on FT's research & dissemination of those actions.

 

3. I did comment on FT's attack upon KoR's character.

 

4. I & every other reader on the Boards can draw their own conclusions about 1 & 2.

 

5. FT's defense of his attack amounted to: "He started it."

 

6. If by "little friend" FT means to impugn KoR's age or wisdom or maturity, then FT might wish to behave as an adult himself & not resort to the playground defense of "he started it".

 

7. If you like FT, then maybe I'll like him one day too. Just not so much today. Thanks Jim.

I understand. I have a friend or two on here that I would defend to the end as well, even if they were in the wrong. (thumbs u

[ArAich]

Get it straight...FT is a ing flaming wanker...

[conditionfreak]

It is really funny reading these threads and seeing how many different directions they take, far afield from the original subject. I am guilty of changing directions as much as anyone else here, so I am not casting stones. It is just funny.

 

I for one, find it more than a little strange that someone would have previous problems with PGX to the point that they video tape all of their slab openings (including CGC's if I understand correctly), yet they send high value books STILL to PGX for slabbing and grading. Money issues or time constraints aside. I also find it a little strange that several years later, before submitted said book to CGC, the seller just had to remove it from its slab to feel and smell it to remember the good time at the con where he got it, before sending it to CGC to be graded and slabbed AGAIN (same person doing both). And videoing the event.

 

Now, we have an attempt to force PGX to make it right, apparently through monetary means. If it occured as the OP stated, that would be the way to go. But that is a big if in my mind. Yes, strange things do occur, and yes PGX has a reputation for "getting some things wrong". But I just don't buy the story as presented.

 

I will say however, that PGX should have to make monetary amends because of their ineptitude by either not ascertaining which print it was in the first place, or because they labeled the book wrong in regards to which printing it was. My belief is that the book presented was in fact a later printing and PGX either didn't know how to figure out which printing it was, or was lazy and took the "word" of the submission form, or mislabeled it ( I come to this conclusion becaise I refuse to believe, and there is no other evidence to suggest, that PGX are out and out crooks), (just inept). In either case, they should have to pay for their shoddy business method of operation. It is called the "cost of doing business". If you are a business and you do not protect yourself from fraud attempts or from your own bad business practices, then you should have to pay.

 

Many years ago, a car dealership in a city near Cleveland Ohio, posted coupons in the Plain Dealer newspapaer which stated that "this coupon is worth five thousand dollars towards the purchase of a new car". The coupons did not state anything like "one coupon per persons". An interprizing individual cut out a whole bunch of these coupons and took them to the car dealership, with a video camera in hand (a family member was doing the filming) and presented a handfull of these coupons and stated he wanted to turn them all in for the FULL purchase price of a particular new car.

 

Of course the car dealership denied his offer, and stated that it should be obvious to everyone that the coupons were one to a customer, and that either the newspaper printer, or the dealership made a simple mistake, that did not require them to honor 20 grand of coupons as full payment for a vehicle.

 

It went to court and the courts stated that in THIS case, the dealership had to "give" the buyer the car, with no further monetary payment due. But the court also ruled that the dealership did not have to honor any subsequent purchases with more than one coupon, as the "mistake" was now public knowledge.

 

This was approximately ten years or so ago, and this is how I remember it being reported on in the media. I had nothing to do with the case and I have not done research on it.

 

It makes sense to me though and I think that PGX should be held liable, for their ineptitude and shoddy business practices. Although I do not believe the OP's story as told. It smells.

 

I, as are the rest of you out there, DO HAVE THE RIGHT to state what we think about this situation and state that we believe or disbelieve the OP. Since (to my knowledge) his identity is not generally known, there is no slander and he actually started this thread. He could have (and should have) dealt with this by other means than a public internet forum. For someone who videos the opening of all of his slabs, it is a silly thing to present this on a public forum, unless the intent is to put pressure on PGX by stating or showing how he can further harm their reputation unless they pay up.

 

I know that there are weird people "out there", but videoing slab openings? After having problems with PGX in the past and still submitting books to them? Handling the book to bring back memories of a Con attended, when the book is slabbed and you had to pay for that slabbing (even if you did it because you were sending it to CGC (which I believe is a falsehood used to explain how come this situation was discovered in the first place)? Waiting three years before doing this (or maybe waiting three years to figure out the best way to maximize your profit from PGX's mistake)?

 

Give me a break. But PGX should pay. Cost of doing business in the good ole U.S. of A.

 

Even here recently, S. Borock mis-typed an incorrect price for a high dollar book for sale, and someone posted the little "I'll take it" sign. Steve immediately posted and contacted the individual about the mistake and the "buyer" being the good guy that he is, understood and it was all worked out. But my point is, Steve Borock wrote on this site that it was his mistake and that he would honor the misquoted price (at a tune of a couple of thousand dollars out of Steve's pocket if necessary) because the mistake was his and his alone. Now, that is class gentlemen, and it is the way a business should be run. This is no different. If PGX made either of the mistakes that they MUST have made to bring this situation to where it is today, they should have to pay.

[Domo Arigato]

1) Where does he say he still sends books to PGX for slabbing?

 

2) He's had problems with some of his previously slabbed books in the past. I can attest to this as I remember him posting about it on a different forum more than a year ago as it was happening. So it's certainly feasible that he'd want to video subsequent slab openings as a means to protect himself now. Especially with expensive books.

 

3) If I had a book that I haven't touched or read for three years and was planning on having it slabbed by a different company, I'd crack it out and read it one more time before sending it in. Nostalgia is part of what collecting is about for me.

 

4) Why go to all this trouble to "maybe" make a profit? Why not just sell the book as a first print right after it was slabbed and make an immediate and guaranteed profit?

 

His story seems plausible. Strange? Yes. But hell...I read strange but true stuff on here everyday that would have left me shaking my head 10 years ago.

[the_Greatest]

1) Strange? Yes. But hell...I read strange and true stuff on here everyday that would have left me shaking my head 10 years ago.

 

Sho' nuff. Krazy stuff.

 

[conditionfreak]

Yes. "Strange" indeed.

 

I guess you and I see things differently. If I am cracking out a book from a PGX slab with the intent of sending it to CGC for regrading, I will be damned if I am going to read it AGAIN.

 

If I had a problem with PGX's labeling and grading in the past, I would be damned if I would be sending them a high dollar book for grading and labeling AGAIN.

 

If I was able to get something past PGX's method of operation, I would be damned if I would put the possible problems on my own shoulders by selling it, but would instead try and get money from PGX, because that way, it CAN NOT come back on me legally. THEY are the ones who are the professionals. But if I sell the book slabbed and later, a buyer finds out, I just might have to hire an attorney to defend myself and that cost big bucks. I might even have to go out of state to defend myself in a small claims court and that is time and money. So, I go after the business and not have to worry about legal reprocussions later.

 

We both could go on and on about this. Let's just say that we see things differently. I do not and can not accept at this time, that PGX is/are crooks. Inept for sure. But not crooks. You apparently find it not hard to believe they/he is. I have seen too many people who are always scheming to get money from business's. I played poker last week with eight other people and SIX of them were discussing the various settlements they had previously obtained, or were expecting, from employers or business's that they had sued. I am not a business owner, but this kind of things stinks to me.

 

But, as I stated. We can agree to disagree.

[awe4one]

The conscious decision to express my own assesment is neglectful? You really are batty. I don't think it is post-slab damage. I examined the book carefully, and don't see how the damage would be post-slabbing damage. I think it was just an overgraded book.

 

"I don't think..." was the same rational that guy in the restored Action #1 thread used. It doesn't negate the facts that it was sold to you with with the knowledge of slab damage and you have decided to ignore that fact upon flipping. Actionboy was wrong then and you're wrong now...

 

Jim

[Domo Arigato]

You've never read a book more than once, even if you haven't read it for several years? I do it all the time. And again, where does he say that he continues to send books to PGX for grading. The books we are discussing were all sent to PGX years ago.

 

Also, I believe he would have less legal repurcussions (sp?) if he were to have simply sold the book in it's slab as a first print. His arguement could simply have been that it was a certified first print from a comic grading company. The burden of proof would then fall on the shoulders of the new owner, who would have to have cracked the book out of the slab to realize otherwise. Then they would have to prove that it was the book that was originally in the slab to begin with. The scenario of trying to scam PGX for a profit simply doesn't make sense given the hassle it's going to involve and the relatively small amount of profit he would stand to gain from it.

[Boozad]

I just find it a bit strange. Would you, if PGX had said to you 'yes we make mistakes, please video any slab crackings that you do', submit anything to them again? Let alone a high value book?

And the next time you do crack a slab, you video it and lo and behold they've dropped an enormous bollock, either one way or the other.

 

The fact they have advised videoing slab openings in the past could be seen by some people as forewarned and could be taken as a big opportunity to make big money. I have no idea how legitimate the OP's case is and I'm not casting aspersions. It's just how a lot of people could see it.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

deleted

[the_Greatest]

so none of you even know anything about him.

 

 

Finally we have come to the crux of the matter...we know diddly about MagicDan yet we are supposed to buy his story hook, line and sinker...I don't think so...

 

Just because PGX is a notoriously krappy business does not mean that, by default, MagicDan is correct in his claims...

 

 

Whether he is correct or not, he does not deserve ridicule at this point.

 

 

Sometimes that is just a way to weed out the truth...

 

Well, then that speaks volumes right there. Fundamental differences. I don't agree with that, and will never agree with that.

 

What grade would you give the Ultimate Spider Man #2?

Did you buy it directly from the seller that described the damage as post slab, and posted the photo of the crack by the staple, or from someone else?

 

I sell certified books at the certified grade whether I agree with the grade or not. I disagree with CGC in high grade quite often, but whether it be in my favor or not I sell what it is. My personal grade is a 9.4--but nobody cares what my grades are, that's why I send books in to be certified. I bought the book from that seller. I put it in my eBay store with a disclaimer that I disagree with the grade. Sounds just fine to me.

 

That's not the answer I was hoping to hear.

It might be semantics to you, but what you said is.." *In my opinion this book was overgraded."

When you don't disclose everything that you're aware of, it leaves you wide open to speculation that you are just covering your butt for when a buyer gets the book and says" WTF? There's damage to the spine that makes this book about a 9.0??"

It's not trimming or color touch, but it's pretty weak.

 

Like I said before, I DO think it was just an overgraded book. I am not responsible for CGC's assesment.

 

That's why I brought up semantics before. In MHO, the least you should do now is state "In my opinion this book is now overgraded." Maybe kick up the font a bit too. I don't think it's reasonable to believe CGC F'd up this badly on grading.

[Domo Arigato]

I just find it a bit strange. Would you, if PGX had said to you 'yes we make mistakes, please video any slab crackings that you do', submit anything to them again? Let alone a high value book?

And the next time you do crack a slab, you video it and lo and behold they've dropped an enormous bollock, either one way or the other.

 

The fact they have advised videoing slab openings in the past could be seen by some people as forewarned and could be taken as a big opportunity to make big money. I have no idea how legitimate the OP's case is and I'm not casting aspersions. It's just how a lot of people could see it.

The facts are getting a bit garbled here. Let's see if I can clarify them a bit.

 

The book mentioned in the first post of this thread (We'll call it Book1) was submitted to PGX in 2005.

 

Later, the same individual submitted another book to PGX (we'll call it Book2) which came back from them, if I recall correctly, without an outer holder and with part of the book sealed into the seam of the inner holder (my memories a little fuzzy on the specifics). The submitter then contacts PGX who refuses to offer him any compensation unless he provides video/picture proof that he has removed the book from their inner well. It seems like they are holding his money ransom until he proves that he destroyed the evidence of their foul up.

 

Because of this, he decides to start taking picture (then later video) evidence of his slab openings to protect himself from any other "mistakes".

 

Fast forward to the present. He decides to crack and resubmit to CGC the Book1 mentioned at the beginning of this thread and makes the discovery that we're talking about now.

[Boozad]

I just find it a bit strange. Would you, if PGX had said to you 'yes we make mistakes, please video any slab crackings that you do', submit anything to them again? Let alone a high value book?

And the next time you do crack a slab, you video it and lo and behold they've dropped an enormous bollock, either one way or the other.

 

The fact they have advised videoing slab openings in the past could be seen by some people as forewarned and could be taken as a big opportunity to make big money. I have no idea how legitimate the OP's case is and I'm not casting aspersions. It's just how a lot of people could see it.

The facts are getting a bit garbled here. Let's see if I can clarify them a bit.

 

The book mentioned in the first post of this thread (We'll call it Book1) was submitted to PGX in 2005.

 

Later, the same individual submitted another book to PGX (we'll call it Book2) which came back from them, if I recall correctly, without an outer holder and with part of the book sealed into the seam of the inner holder (my memories a little fuzzy on the specific). The submitter then contacts PGX who refuses to offer him any compensation unless he provides video/picture proof that he has removed the book from their inner well. It seems like they are holding his money ransom until he proves that he destroyed the evidence of their foul up.

 

Because of this, he decides to at first start taking picture (then later video) evidence of his slab openings to protect himself from any future "mistakes".

 

Fast forward to the present. He decides to crack and resubmit to CGC the Book1 mentioned at the beginning of this thread and makes the discovery that we're talking about now.

 

I stand corrected (thumbs u

[Domo Arigato]

I stand corrected (thumbs u

No problem. I'm getting a little confused myself.

[comics-rock]

I've seen the video, for those who haven't, here's a screen capture:

 

 

Hey Christian, don't think Dan really wanted it out there what the book was!