OMG!!!!!!

[Beau]

I've known hookers at prison rodeos that received less illegal action.

 

You hang out in the most interesting locales.

[DrWatson]

I've known hookers at prison rodeos that received less illegal action.

 

You hang out in the most interesting locales.

I suffer from boredom brought on by been there, done that syndrome.

[Ultra Ambient]

Is it possible that the other bidders are accounts owned by members of this board? You don't know who's reading this thread or what Ebay accounts they have.

[cheetah]

I don't know shilling from Adam but I've bought a few Avengers books off this seller over the last year and a half, as has here4now/pastimperfekt and most other UHG Avengers buyers. The guy has been unloading some exceptional books and ships immediately upon payment. He gets good prices and has a big following because of the books he sells. Reminds me of darcy*smygirl in 2007 and 2008. Given what he usually gets for the books he sells, I don't think he needs to shill. I've been outbid on his books around 80% of the time.

 

And the $25k selling price is in line with the last two sales on CLink in the range of $20k. The $13k GPA sale was the first copy to be available since Avengers rocketed in price and it was a private sale with no bidding. The eBay copy had better page quality so the $25k price is probably what it should have sold for.

 

[slym2none]

 

Actually, after reading the seller's defence, I'm pretty confident that the seller was bidding up his own auction and Paratrooper had him pegged right.

 

 

Agree. Glad I posted screenshots in this thread so we could see the shill bidding disappear after 'trooper pulled his $8,000,000 bid.

 

+1... the sequence of events is damning.

 

 

 

-slym

[conditionfreak]

I believe the correct way to look at this is thus.

 

Paratrooper may be right. The seller may be right. Problem is the "may".

 

How can you mess with someone if you can not prove it. Paratrooper, If you want proof positive that someone else did not shill, then provide "proof positive" that they did.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

My personal belief is that Paratrooper is probably right about other shillers. But I can not prove it. I can prove that this auction was shilled by Paratrooper, the proof being his own admission (unless he is a liar). However, I can not prove that someone else did or did not.

 

Where does that leave us? Where does that leave the seller and other bidders, and Paratrooper?

 

To mess with an Ebay auction in this manner, EVEN IF you are right about others (or the seller himself using an alias or two), shilling for this seller, is just plain wrong. Since you just have inconclusive evidence. Anecdotal evidence. Not proof positive. Even IF you did have proof positive of shilling going on in an auction that you are in fact not trying to win, what business is it of yours?

 

I don't understand. Is it your mission in life to correct the wrongs of Ebay, one cancellation at a time? Are you an internet cop? Are you a comic book undercover cop?

 

WHAT IF you are wrong? Are you NEVER wrong?

[Paratrooper]

I believe the correct way to look at this is thus.

 

Paratrooper may be right. The seller may be right. Problem is the "may".

 

How can you mess with someone if you can not prove it. Paratrooper, If you want proof positive that someone else did not shill, then provide "proof positive" that they did.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

My personal belief is that Paratrooper is probably right about other shillers. But I can not prove it. I can prove that this auction was shilled by Paratrooper, the proof being his own admission (unless he is a liar). However, I can not prove that someone else did or did not.

 

Where does that leave us? Where does that leave the seller and other bidders, and Paratrooper?

 

To mess with an Ebay auction in this manner, EVEN IF you are right about others (or the seller himself using an alias or two), shilling for this seller, is just plain wrong. Since you just have inconclusive evidence. Anecdotal evidence. Not proof positive. Even IF you did have proof positive of shilling going on in an auction that you are in fact not trying to win, what business is it of yours?

 

I don't understand. Is it your mission in life to correct the wrongs of Ebay, one cancellation at a time? Are you an internet cop? Are you a comic book undercover cop?

 

WHAT IF you are wrong? Are you NEVER wrong?

 

So you're saying I was right...that there was a shiller

[conditionfreak]

Yes. Diffinitely and for sure. If no one else, you were. That is at least one. Although the diffinition I use to describe a shill bidder has to be stated here. Yours may vary.

 

"Shill bidder": Someone who bids on an auction in order to raise the current highest bid of said auction, and who has no intention of actually trying to win said auction. Who has no intention of actually paying the seller for said item, if they win said auction.

 

Someone else may say that a "shill bidder" works for (or IS ) the seller in an attempt to obtain the maximum amount of money possibly in an auction type sale, for the seller. That is one way of describing a shill, but not the only way. Sometimes there are "thrill shills" that do not even know the seller or other bidders. It is just a game they like to play.

 

I believe that there was one or two other shills in the auction we are discussing here, but how can I know for sure? How can you know for sure?

 

I was one of the first (relatively speaking, in terms of numbers) who participated in/on Ebay. I remember that you were actually allowed, way back then, to bid on your own items. Using your own sellers ID. Then it changed to that you were allowed to bid on your own item (an item that you were the seller of in an auction), only once during the "run" of your auction. Of course then it changed to what it is now. You are not allowed to bid on your own auction (or are you?).

 

In the beginning, Ebay just wanted their "cut" and did not care how it came about. An argument could be made that it is still the case, from some things I have seen and assume that Ebay just "has to know" what is going on.

 

Does anybody have experience with actual in person auctions of big ticket items, such as Renoirs or Action Comics #1's, or antique cars. That can tell me (us) if it is allowable to bid up your own auction/s in those big in person auctions? I guess it is not much different than having an auction whereupon the seller has a "reserve". A reserve and a shill bidder is similar. Not the same, but close, IMO.

[bronzilla]

Frankly this whole shilling thing is pretty disgusting in my opinion.

 

And Troopers participation in this Auction in it and his arrogance verging on Idiocy when called out on it really makes my Blood Boil!

 

Sorry Trooper when you continue with The Dorky Acclaim Gremlin, Your not helping yourself, you frankly look a little silly.

[Sal]

So, wait, a guy comes here and gives us a sob-story post - with no follow-up - and we're ready to believe him over a long-standing member of the boards with a history of dealing with shillers in the manner they should be dealt with?

 

O-kayyyy.

 

I must be missing something. Besides his word, did the seller in question ever provide a rationale for why the bidding pattern looks so fishy?

[DrWatson]

So, wait, a guy comes here and gives us a sob-story post - with no follow-up - and we're ready to believe him over a long-standing member of the boards with a history of dealing with shillers in the manner they should be dealt with?

 

O-kayyyy.

 

I must be missing something. Besides his word, did the seller in question ever provide a rationale for why the bidding pattern looks so fishy?

Nope. Only that little Timmy needed an operation.

[bronzilla]

So, wait, a guy comes here and gives us a sob-story post - with no follow-up - and we're ready to believe him over a long-standing member of the boards with a history of dealing with shillers in the manner they should be dealt with?

 

O-kayyyy.

 

I must be missing something. Besides his word, did the seller in question ever provide a rationale for why the bidding pattern looks so fishy?

 

Im not BELIEVING anyone. I know that Trooper around in a auction he had no buisness in. Others have said it far better than I can. You dont mess with an Auction. Trooper couldnt be 100% certain on the Shill and even if he was so what?? Why do it?

 

[Paratrooper]

Frankly this whole shilling thing is pretty disgusting in my opinion.

 

And Troopers participation in this Auction in it and his arrogance verging on Idiocy when called out on it really makes my Blood Boil!

 

Sorry Trooper when you continue with The Dorky Acclaim Gremlin, Your not helping yourself, you frankly look a little silly.

 

[thehumantorch]

So, wait, a guy comes here and gives us a sob-story post - with no follow-up - and we're ready to believe him over a long-standing member of the boards with a history of dealing with shillers in the manner they should be dealt with?

 

O-kayyyy.

 

I must be missing something. Besides his word, did the seller in question ever provide a rationale for why the bidding pattern looks so fishy?

 

I don't get it. How would any of you feel if you put a big book up for auction and had one or more shillers ruin the auction? If the shilling was connected to this board wouldn't you join and ask what the hell.

 

Yes Paratrooper is a long-standing member of the boards but that doesn't mean he is right this time.

[mackenzie999]

Not sure where I stand on Ebay vigilanteism, I see valid points on both sides, but here's my question: does it serve any actual purpose? If all the crazy high bids are withdrawn or retracted, doesn't it simply revert to the highest remaining bid?

 

Regardless of the right or wrong aspect, it sure makes for some entertaining reading...

[binarysunrise]

I was one of the first (relatively speaking, in terms of numbers) who participated in/on Ebay. I remember that you were actually allowed, way back then, to bid on your own items. Using your own sellers ID. Then it changed to that you were allowed to bid on your own item (an item that you were the seller of in an auction), only once during the "run" of your auction. Of course then it changed to what it is now. You are not allowed to bid on your own auction (or are you?).

 

Remember AuctionWeb (I think that was the name)?

 

And then there was that period of time where you could list for free as they got people to transition from AuctionWeb to ebay. Those were the days

[FFNut]

Did anyone take two minutes aside during this fiasco to contact the seller and invite them to respond to these allegations?

[paperheart]

Did anyone take two minutes aside during this fiasco to contact the seller and invite them to respond to these allegations?

 

the seller posted in this thread and at least one board member that has bought books from him came to his defense

[FFNut]

Thanks. I didn't see where the seller posted.

 

Page number? Name? Thanks in advance.

[FFNut]

Found it.

 

So, I have seen a lot of people wondering in my CGC 9.4 Avengers #4 auction on Ebay is being shilled and if I had some part of it. Yes, from the two retractions, it appears that was the case. However, I am not involved in this at all. I never realized that some members would play around with the biding process to manipulate pricing. I have sold ton of my personal collection in the last 6 months because of medical bills for my son, and I have never experience this kind of immaturity. Perhaps, when I decide to move the rest of my collection at some time, I will be forced to go to Comiclink or Pedigree or Heritage Auctions. That is why I added the last comment on the auction.

For my policies, why would I allow returns on CGC graded items? I have seen that. And I package so well, none of of my books have ever had damage. I also pay for all insurance on the bids and the shipping. I ALSO COMMUNICATE WITH BUYER EVERY STEP OF THE WAY UNTIL YOU RECEIVE THE BOOK. Furthermore, after seeing the email chain on this book, it looks like silver.age.comic.collector (bidder with 6 rating) pulled out and then Paratrooper pulled out the $8M. If the $8M bill was used to fish out the shiller, I can kind of see that. IN ESSENCE THE GOOD SHILL IS STILL A SHILL THOUGH. Now Paratrooper54 is the high bidder again, but hopefully this is a legit bid. Or any others that come through.

 

That is what amazes me. If everyone just bid honestly and didn't want to market manipulate, this discussion would never have happened. I am amazed how high this auction has gone, shocked. If its all demand/supply, that is awesome for the industry as a whole. If there is manipulation, it's really bad.

 

Done with my diatribe - I only joined this society just to shed light on this. Let's see where this goes, but if some how more manipulation goes on by bidders, I will get Ebay involved. Take care, all. Thanks.

 

Doesn't exactly sound like "The Big, Bad, Shilling Wolf" to me.