PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 20 20

[thehumantorch]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

[seanfingh]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

 

but true.

[PovertyRow]

Quote fail so:

 

OldGuy: "When do we stop making lists and simply suggest that people proceed with caution? ...Did you know that I have received e-mail from folks that read my CK website and proceeded to do business with him anyway and got a restored book back from CGC!? True story. You just can't help some people."

 

We stop making lists at the Board Member level. You're making it sound like we have lists all over the place. We don't. We have one list. We will still have one list if the Off-Board aspect is enacted.

 

I do feel the the majority of active board members don't fall under the category you describe about buying the resto books after reading your sites (which ARE quite interesting).

[comix4fun]

I am going to guess your school years resembled something like this...

 

 

Not quite, but simply trying out didn't secure you a spot on the team either. I know that will come as a shock to some.

 

In all seriousness, people may make mistakes based on a lack of information, and sometimes greed or folly. I don't know if that means we throw our hands up and turn a blind eye to a fraud brought directly to, and continued upon, our doorstep.

 

I never suggested that. I'm simply saying that there is a limit to what can be done here. When do we stop making lists and simply suggest that people proceed with caution? I've continued to host the Comickeys and PGX websites I created because I think the information they provide may be helpful to someone that is interested in exercising due diligence. However, those websites are worthless to someone that isn't interested in being cautious. Did you know that I have received e-mail from folks that read my CK website and proceeded to do business with him anyway and got a restored book back from CGC!? True story. You just can't help some people.

 

There are people that see the value in the HOS and probation list,

 

And I am one of them. But talk of adding another list is just silly in my opinion.

 

and when a clear gap is discovered there's nothing wrong with closing it.

 

Agreed, unless it's complete overkill.

 

I don't leave my keys in the ignition simply because I think a determined thief will steal the car anyway.

 

Of course not, and that also has nothing to do with what I said. What I did say is that if you insist on leaving your keys in your car than there is nothing I can do to help you.

 

 

Man I wish everyone was as clear minded on these boards.

[Twistty1]

Personally, I prefer not to have any discussions with you as they go no where IMO. You are twisting my words. He admitted to not looking at the book when he paid for it. I am just saying how do you fork over that my money without looking at the item.

 

The argument here which you are avoiding is whether or not Sagat belongs on the probation list or HOS. I am stating no because this was not a board transaction and furthermore, the boards had no influence on the purchase. Should he prosecute, I would in light of the new information but again that is not a board decision.

 

 

I just quickly reread your original post in PG section. To me you purchased the book based on knowing him from high school. It appears to me that Sagat being a a board member here didn't play a part in the purchasing decision. Now two years later rather than have a warning thread in CG, you are requesting him to be placed on the list because he is a member here.

 

I can see making justifications on transactions that are done off the boards based on the trust of a member here. But I don't see that being the case here. I feel for you and I wish that you get every penny back. I am sure that Sagat's selling days are over here regardless if he is on the list or not.

 

Just a few weeks back purchased a book with an undisclosed color touch. It was terribly done and I didn't catch it in the dim lighting of the LCS. Luckily I looked at it in my car and the spot was very apparent. The fact remains, while it sucks, you should have inspected the book before forking over that much money.

 

 

 

I am seriously hoping you are joking here or that you didn't read Andy "October"'s post about how SAGAT knew that the book was restored, was told to his face it was restored and them stated he was selling it on ebay anyway.

 

People are not allowed to make false claims about their product in order to induce a transaction. There are several criminal statutes built around that concept.

 

Are you REALLY blaming the victim here? Really?

 

They are all members here, including the eye witnesses. Who gives a flying fig about WHY Twisty bought the book from him? The fraudulent description is the core issue here.

 

Because he didn't rely on knowing him from the boards before buying? Really? That's what you are standing on? That's more important than outright fraud?

 

How can you possibly blame Twisty when you have independent 3rd party testimony from an established and respected board member that SAGAT knew for a fact the book was restored and sold it as un-restored?

If you want to stick you head in the sand and ignore what SAGAT did to Twisty that is your choice. The rest of us seem to prefer knowing when something like this happens, protecting ourselves and protecting each other.

 

I never said I did not look at the book when he dropped it off? I'm trying to stay out of this and not sway anyone's opinions and just lay out the facts but you keep missing them. I said I am no expert at detecting restoration, as I had not really been collecting for some time and had never seen a restored book at the time of the transaction. This is when I asked him if it was. What I did admit to was being naive and not knowing what a "badly restored" book would look like and taking his word on it alone. Hope this helps.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Twistty1

[DR.X]

I am stating no because this was not a board transaction and furthermore, the boards had no influence on the purchase. Should he prosecute, I would in light of the new information but again that is not a board decision.

 

I have been following this whole thread ( and I'm glad I did ) and want to throw my in and go finish cutting the lawn.

 

Sure, this was an off the board puchase. But, it involves two members. Here's what some may call the "gray area". Me personally, I want to know about stuff like this, regardless if it's on or off the boards. I won't deal with someone like this. Just me. My preference. What some are forgetting is that this a community, for the most part. We try and help the other guy out when he's in a jam, and give him a head's up when things look questionable. Steer people away from Roboblow, and Bijouscammy.

 

Now, here's my point, and why I am glad I read this. Sagat had a book on e-bay that I need to fill a hole. I've been watching it for quite some time. I finally have the funds and was about to contact him and try and work out a deal with him. I don't know Sagat personally and have never done any business with him. After reading this thread, I'll keep looking for that book, and won't do any business with him. That's just me though, and my preference.

 

DR.X

 

 

Edited April 29, 2011 by DR.X

[JazzMan]

There's been questions/concerns that this was outside of the boards, I want to remind you that we have ComicsSupplyon the HOS that dealt mainly with folks off the boards. Albeit, he did have multiple stints in the Probation list prior to it, it does make the argument that deals make outside the boards by fellow board members ARE indeed able to be included on the Proby list.

 

ComicSupply is on the list for failure to complete board transactions.

 

I stand corrected. However, his dealings off the boards also contributed to the overall discussion and reason he's on the list.

[Foolkiller]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

 

Can I ask where this blanket statement comes from? 1) I don't know of anyone selling to HOS members. 2) to say, if you are referring to me, that selling comics comes first and the community comes second, I suggest you take a look at the entire body of what I've done here.

 

This is specifically why I defended clobberintime -- this is the half cocked way in which some people decide to take their holier than thou positions about right and wrong.

 

Finally, on the issue of SAGAT, I think there's very clear evidence that he knowingly sold a restored book as unrestored. What list he ought to go on is irrelevant to me, except that people should be informed. If that means the HOS, so be it.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Foolkiller

[comix4fun]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

 

Can I ask where this blanket statement comes from? 1) I don't know of anyone selling to HOS members. 2) to say, if you are referring to me, that selling comics comes first and the community comes second, I suggest you take a look at the entire body of what I've done here.

 

This is specifically why I defended clobberintime -- this is the half cocked way in which some people decide to take their holier than thou positions about right and wrong.

 

Finally, on the issue of SAGAT, I think there's very clear evidence that he knowingly sold a restored book as unrestored. What list he ought to go on is irrelevant to me, except that people should be informed. If that means the HOS, so be it.

 

 

I was wondering where that statement came from as well. Is there some subtext we are missing? I've always known Brian to be an honest dealer on these board and of high character.

[seanfingh]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

 

Can I ask where this blanket statement comes from? 1) I don't know of anyone selling to HOS members. 2) to say, if you are referring to me, that selling comics comes first and the community comes second, I suggest you take a look at the entire body of what I've done here.

 

This is specifically why I defended clobberintime -- this is the half cocked way in which some people decide to take their holier than thou positions about right and wrong.

 

Finally, on the issue of SAGAT, I think there's very clear evidence that he knowingly sold a restored book as unrestored. What list he ought to go on is irrelevant to me, except that people should be informed. If that means the HOS, so be it.

 

Anyone that has been named as a defendant in a lawsuit for basically forum watchdog activities is more than involved enough in the community.

 

But your case aside, there are lots of people that discover this place, immediately start selling, never engage the community at all, and cause a lot of havoc.

[seanfingh]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

 

Can I ask where this blanket statement comes from? 1) I don't know of anyone selling to HOS members. 2) to say, if you are referring to me, that selling comics comes first and the community comes second, I suggest you take a look at the entire body of what I've done here.

 

This is specifically why I defended clobberintime -- this is the half cocked way in which some people decide to take their holier than thou positions about right and wrong.

 

Finally, on the issue of SAGAT, I think there's very clear evidence that he knowingly sold a restored book as unrestored. What list he ought to go on is irrelevant to me, except that people should be informed. If that means the HOS, so be it.

 

 

I was wondering where that statement came from as well. Is there some subtext we are missing? I've always known Brian to be an honest dealer on these board and of high character.

 

It comes from Brian being very forthright about his dealings with clobberintime, and saying that based upon prior good dealings, he would deal with him again. clobberintime screwed F_T on a deal to get on the PL (not a good choice of sellers to screw) and a lot of folks have been testy about BK's statements.

 

The irony is thick when one's abject desire to be forthright causes folks to question one's forthrightness (if that is a word).

[Twistty1]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

 

Can I ask where this blanket statement comes from? 1) I don't know of anyone selling to HOS members. 2) to say, if you are referring to me, that selling comics comes first and the community comes second, I suggest you take a look at the entire body of what I've done here.

 

This is specifically why I defended clobberintime -- this is the half cocked way in which some people decide to take their holier than thou positions about right and wrong.

 

Finally, on the issue of SAGAT, I think there's very clear evidence that he knowingly sold a restored book as unrestored. What list he ought to go on is irrelevant to me, except that people should be informed. If that means the HOS, so be it.

 

I would be very surprised if Torch was referring to you in this particular statement. I think he's aware of who's contributing to the board community as a whole and would not think of you as someone that only sells on here without adding to any other threads.

[DR.X]

But your case aside, there are lots of people that discover this place, immediately start selling, never engage the community at all, and cause a lot of havoc.

 

Correct, but it takes two to cause the havoc. How many time's have we seen sellers with a couple of post's in start selling. And the signs fly.

 

DR.X

Edited April 29, 2011 by DR.X

[cd4ever]

Dam troublemaker Sagat......

 

[Timmay]

you troublemaker

[Comicopolis]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

 

Not just newbies either.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Dam troublemaker Sagat......

 

 

That man was not funny, but he made a decent father character on a TV show.

[comix4fun]

The more disconcerting issue, for me, is that there are well respected sellers who sell to probation list and HOS members. These are people who screwed over other members, on these boards, not in a fifth grade game of marbles, and were placed on the list. Yet for the almighty dollar these sellers will continue to do business with them, hoping I guess that they won't be the unfortunate one to be hurt.

 

That is pretty

 

It is but some are here to sell comics and the community is secondary.

 

Can I ask where this blanket statement comes from? 1) I don't know of anyone selling to HOS members. 2) to say, if you are referring to me, that selling comics comes first and the community comes second, I suggest you take a look at the entire body of what I've done here.

 

This is specifically why I defended clobberintime -- this is the half cocked way in which some people decide to take their holier than thou positions about right and wrong.

 

Finally, on the issue of SAGAT, I think there's very clear evidence that he knowingly sold a restored book as unrestored. What list he ought to go on is irrelevant to me, except that people should be informed. If that means the HOS, so be it.

 

 

I was wondering where that statement came from as well. Is there some subtext we are missing? I've always known Brian to be an honest dealer on these board and of high character.

 

It comes from Brian being very forthright about his dealings with clobberintime, and saying that based upon prior good dealings, he would deal with him again. clobberintime screwed F_T on a deal to get on the PL (not a good choice of sellers to screw) and a lot of folks have been testy about BK's statements.

 

The irony is thick when one's abject desire to be forthright causes folks to question one's forthrightness (if that is a word).

 

 

Holy Carp!

Where the hell was I? I didn't catch any of that.

Maybe that was the weekend I woke up in the Thai Motel Room in a bathtub full of ice cubes and a scar where my left kidney used to be.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Dam troublemaker Sagat......

 

 

That man was not funny, but he made a decent father character on a TV show.

 

I support people being added to the lists we have, but don't create more lists that people would have to find. As long as there is sufficient believable evidence(discussed here), I don't have a problem with anybody being nominated for the lists we have. Separate them by categories as you like, just put them in the same posts like we have now. Regards,

[PovertyRow]

Dam troublemaker Sagat......

 

 

That man was not funny, but he made a decent father character on a TV show.

 

He always gave me the wiggins.