PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[N/A]

I don't recall the seller stating the turn around time for the transaction. What if the transaction would not be finalized until after the 60-day paypal dispute window? Perhaps, the buyer agreed to the pre-sale but then later learned that he was forfeiting some form of buyer protection. Believe it or not this type of presale buying does happen on ebay.

 

This is a pre-sale where the seller did not run out and purchase the item specifically for the individual. He is not completely out of any money in a sense, just list it elsewhere or on the boards when it comes in.

 

I don't think this is a way of conducting a transaction. I am happy that this buyer was mentioned here. However, if I were the seller I would not want to complete a transaction with this type of buyer ever. Sorry but I don't see this as a punishable offense.

 

Comics were to be in the buyer's hands in 3-4 weeks from payment. Paypal protection was discussed and I believe it is now 45 days. There was plenty of time to file a case if I did not deliver in the time frame.

 

I've seen some discussion on the boards where somebody makes a sale and immediately purchases something else. Had I not left the funds in my paypal then I would have been locked from printing shipping labes or conducting any paypal business for several days while I loaded the account.

[divad]

The "buyer" will be put on the list, if in fact, he posted an and didn't pay or resolve the matter with the seller after 30 days. Period.

 

No. If the paypal dispute is finished before 30 days have passed, the buyer goes on the list then. Period.

 

You know, you talk before you think quite a bit.

[N/A]

This will be very unpopular but here it is... The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards. The 30-day period allows for some cool down plus gives time for a buyer who possibly has an emergency bill come up pay for their transaction.

 

The sellers here also have full time jobs. I personally don't mind waiting 30 days for a package.

 

Filing a paypal case and demaninding a refund seems pretty clear to me the transaction will not proceed. 30 days to get a package works for me too.

 

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the probie thread. I thought I was giving other sellers a heads up

[divad]

This will be very unpopular but here it is... The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards. The 30-day period allows for some cool down plus gives time for a buyer who possibly has an emergency bill come up pay for their transaction.

 

The sellers here also have full time jobs. I personally don't mind waiting 30 days for a package.

 

Filing a paypal case and demaninding a refund seems pretty clear to me the transaction will not proceed. 30 days to get a package works for me too.

 

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the probie thread. I thought I was giving other sellers a heads up

 

That's what the probation discussion thread is for. The Probation Thread is where deadbeats are permanently chronicled.

[N/A]

Sorry but I don't see this as a punishable offense.

 

 

So you would be ok with a Buyer, agreeing to all terms of the sale, more than once, and agreeing to changes in terms and then filing a charge back with Pay Pal anyway?

 

He didn't state in his paypal complaint that he was worried about the book shipping after the dispute date, he directly called the seller's honesty into question.

 

 

Nail on the head.

 

 

[mschmidt]

The "buyer" will be put on the list, if in fact, he posted an and didn't pay or resolve the matter with the seller after 30 days. Period.

 

No. If the paypal dispute is finished before 30 days have passed, the buyer goes on the list then. Period.

 

You know, you talk before you think quite a bit.

 

Whereas your problem is that you don't think at all? :shrug:

[N/A]

 

I am not defending the buyer here at all. Of course he used whatever means possible to get Paypal to reverse the charges. I don't agree to that but again, how long will until the transactions completed. Why has this question not been answered? When did the seller tell the buyer he could deliver the goods?

 

For me personally if someone wants to back out of a deal, that is fine because I would rather have a good transaction then forcing someone into a purchase. But that is me. I still feel that since this is a PRESALE it doesn't fall under the category that the seller is out any money. He did not purchase the items for the buyer. What was his intentions with the item before offering it for sale. Was he going to keep it or sale it. If the latter than just move on and sell it.

 

You allow 30 days for a package to be delivered but not a few hours to answer a post? See above.

 

You're right. I am not out money. I only had my reputation questioned and my paypal locked. I also had to spend more time to try and find out why the buyer had an issue so I could improve my service.

 

But you're right. No $$ lost.

Edited March 12, 2010 by branget

[comix4fun]

 

This will be very unpopular but here it is... The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards. The 30-day period allows for some cool down plus gives time for a buyer who possibly has an emergency bill come up pay for their transaction.

 

 

 

That's not what happened here. The buyer made inflammatory and accusatory claims to pay pal regarding the sellers honesty.

 

He did not contact anyone about emergency bills coming due. He agreed to a deal, agreed to it again with clarified terms and then set off to burn the seller down with pay pal. There's no need to become a revisionist here.

 

Why should anyone have to wait 30 days when the buyer has no intention of buying as evidenced by the pay pal charge back. This isn't a situation with someone shipping slowly and waiting the 30 days to get a package. This isn't a situation with a person ignoring PM's or Emails and you give them the 30 days to answer. If the other party in your transaction makes it 100% clear they are not going to perform on day one, as the buyer here did, there is NO point is waiting another month.

 

That's what the list is for, when a deal is failed they get put on the list and given a chance to do the right thing by the person they wronged.

 

An extra 29 days isn't going to undo the pay pal charge back. Standing on ceremony here is futile and fruitless.

 

These are all valid points, but you act as though the PayPal "chargeback" (which it isn't, btw, it's a dispute) is instantaneous (it isn't.) The dispute is not settled. When the dispute settles, or after 30 days, the seller can request that the "buyer" be put on the list. I really don't see the fanfare, except that the seller may be ticked off big time.

 

 

The outcome of the dispute bears little on the intent of the party attempting to undo the transaction. Whether or not he is successful his intent was to break his agreement with the seller.

[N/A]

No that all this discussion isn't worth having, but it's ironic mikeggg has made all of 2 posts in 2 months since he joined; I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear from him again.

 

Yep, my guess is that he will do nothing and go on the list. Better yet, PayPal will rule against him.

 

I refunded. Not worth the hassle.

[jpolz]

 

These are all valid points, but you act as though the PayPal "chargeback" (which it isn't, btw, it's a dispute) is instantaneous (it isn't.) The dispute is not settled. When the dispute settles, or after 30 days, the seller can request that the "buyer" be put on the list. I really don't see the fanfare, except that the seller may be ticked off big time.

 

 

The outcome of the dispute bears little on the intent of the party attempting to undo the transaction. Whether or not he is successful his intent was to break his agreement with the seller.

 

That's not necessarily true. I've initiated a paypal dispute myself -- to preserve my rights before they expired -- when what I really, really wanted was for the seller to just ship me the books I'd paid him for.

 

In this case the buyer may intend to break the sale, he may even have already gotten the books elsewhere. Or, maybe, a couple of status emails from branget could also convince him that everything's cool & not to worry so much, the internet's not a scary place & his book is on the way and will be here very soon.

 

Just a thought.

[N/A]

This will be very unpopular but here it is... The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards. The 30-day period allows for some cool down plus gives time for a buyer who possibly has an emergency bill come up pay for their transaction.

 

The sellers here also have full time jobs. I personally don't mind waiting 30 days for a package.

 

Filing a paypal case and demaninding a refund seems pretty clear to me the transaction will not proceed. 30 days to get a package works for me too.

 

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the probie thread. I thought I was giving other sellers a heads up

 

That's what the probation discussion thread is for. The Probation Thread is where deadbeats are permanently chronicled.

 

And that's why I started here Bosco taught me that I like the discussions. I don't know that I'd waste my time and check back after 30 days. I mean I gave the heads up. I'm not big on grudges. As GA would say "I'm not Santa Claus. I don't have a naughty list"

[jpolz]

I refunded. Not worth the hassle.

 

Question: If mikegg does get (re-)added to the probation list over this, how could he ever get himself off it at this point?

 

 

[N/A]

 

This will be very unpopular but here it is... The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards. The 30-day period allows for some cool down plus gives time for a buyer who possibly has an emergency bill come up pay for their transaction.

 

 

 

That's not what happened here. The buyer made inflammatory and accusatory claims to pay pal regarding the sellers honesty.

 

He did not contact anyone about emergency bills coming due. He agreed to a deal, agreed to it again with clarified terms and then set off to burn the seller down with pay pal. There's no need to become a revisionist here.

 

Why should anyone have to wait 30 days when the buyer has no intention of buying as evidenced by the pay pal charge back. This isn't a situation with someone shipping slowly and waiting the 30 days to get a package. This isn't a situation with a person ignoring PM's or Emails and you give them the 30 days to answer. If the other party in your transaction makes it 100% clear they are not going to perform on day one, as the buyer here did, there is NO point is waiting another month.

 

That's what the list is for, when a deal is failed they get put on the list and given a chance to do the right thing by the person they wronged.

 

An extra 29 days isn't going to undo the pay pal charge back. Standing on ceremony here is futile and fruitless.

 

These are all valid points, but you act as though the PayPal "chargeback" (which it isn't, btw, it's a dispute) is instantaneous (it isn't.) The dispute is not settled. When the dispute settles, or after 30 days, the seller can request that the "buyer" be put on the list. I really don't see the fanfare, except that the seller may be ticked off big time.

 

 

The outcome of the dispute bears little on the intent of the party attempting to undo the transaction. Whether or not he is successful his intent was to break his agreement with the seller.

 

I was hoping you'd join the discussion. Part of the reason I brought the issue here was to get your take on it. (thumbs u

[N/A]

 

That's not necessarily true. I've initiated a paypal dispute myself -- to preserve my rights before they expired -- when what I really, really wanted was for the seller to just ship me the books I'd paid him for.

 

In this case the buyer may intend to break the sale, he may even have already gotten the books elsewhere. Or, maybe, a couple of status emails from branget could also convince him that everything's cool & not to worry so much, the internet's not a scary place & his book is on the way and will be here very soon.

 

Just a thought.

 

He was reassured daily. Paid the 6th and refunded the 11th.

[N/A]

I refunded. Not worth the hassle.

 

Question: If mikegg does get (re-)added to the probation list over this, how could he ever get himself off it at this point?

 

 

A simple PM taking responsibility would likely do the trick. If he does come back and post on the boards and make accusations towards me or recommends not dealing with me then to nocutename's point I would be out money. And my heads up I thought was to warn other sellers that this may happen to them.

[N/A]

It was commented earlier that the pitchforks come out fast. Well in 4 days the buyer brought out the pitchfork, hung me out to dry and fabricated reasons for doing so.

[sckao]

Personally, pre-sales are probably not the way to go generally. You don't know when CGC will actually ship the books. You don't know if the shipment will be lost or damaged.

 

If you're going to do pre-sales, it'd probably be better to wait until you get the book IN HAND before accepting the money. (You can pre-sell them, but you tell the buyer to wait until the books come in to pay.)

 

Otherwise, you're kind of getting an interest free loan for whatever extra time (15-30 days?)

 

I understand needing to pay for the slabbing, but this way isn't it and the possibility of something happening is too great.

 

 

 

[divad]

It was commented earlier that the pitchforks come out fast. Well in 4 days the buyer brought out the pitchfork, hung me out to dry and fabricated reasons for doing so.

 

None of which would have been made public. No one here is not on your side.

[divad]

Personally, pre-sales are probably not the way to go generally. You don't know when CGC will actually ship the books. You don't know if the shipment will be lost or damaged.

 

If you're going to do pre-sales, it'd probably be better to wait until you get the book IN HAND before accepting the money. (You can pre-sell them, but you tell the buyer to wait until the books come in to pay.)

 

Otherwise, you're kind of getting an interest free loan for whatever extra time (15-30 days?)

 

I understand needing to pay for the slabbing, but this way isn't it and the possibility of something happening is too great.

 

 

 

Agreed. Pre-sales are stoopid. A lot can happen before you have books in hand. There have been instances here where a Boardie buys a book in one thread, and then re-sells it in another (even using the OP's scans!) before he has even received the book.

[faster friends]

Personally, pre-sales are probably not the way to go generally. You don't know when CGC will actually ship the books. You don't know if the shipment will be lost or damaged.

 

If you're going to do pre-sales, it'd probably be better to wait until you get the book IN HAND before accepting the money. (You can pre-sell them, but you tell the buyer to wait until the books come in to pay.)

 

Otherwise, you're kind of getting an interest free loan for whatever extra time (15-30 days?)

 

I understand needing to pay for the slabbing, but this way isn't it and the possibility of something happening is too great.

 

 

 

+1 I am not comfortable with selling something and accepting $$ for something that is not in my presence.