PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[zuckuss2003]

I made a purchase shortly after joining the board that I did not realize (it wasn't super clear in the post) was a presale of books still at CGC. I was not aware until 2 weeks later I asked where my books were, only to find out that for some strange reason they were still at CGC. It was almost a month after I paid until I got my book. The seller is a great seller and I still purchase from them but I don't pay now until the book is in the sellers hand.

 

Anyway, it was something I learned to watch for, and I do not think I would pre-pay like that again.

 

 

[N/A]

Personally, pre-sales are probably not the way to go generally. You don't know when CGC will actually ship the books. You don't know if the shipment will be lost or damaged.

 

If you're going to do pre-sales, it'd probably be better to wait until you get the book IN HAND before accepting the money. (You can pre-sell them, but you tell the buyer to wait until the books come in to pay.)

 

Otherwise, you're kind of getting an interest free loan for whatever extra time (15-30 days?)

 

I understand needing to pay for the slabbing, but this way isn't it and the possibility of something happening is too great.

 

 

 

+1 I am not comfortable with selling something and accepting $$ for something that is not in my presence.

 

I offer a discount for this and have grown comfortable. I've come to trust CGC services and turn arounds. It is not my regular form of sale.

[Boozad]

I made a purchase shortly after joining the board that I did not realize (it wasn't super clear in the post) was a presale of books still at CGC. I was not aware until 2 weeks later I asked where my books were, only to find out that for some strange reason they were still at CGC. It was almost a month after I paid until I got my book. The seller is a great seller and I still purchase from them but I don't pay now until the book is in the sellers hand.

 

Anyway, it was something I learned to watch for, and I do not think I would pre-pay like that again.

 

 

Totally understandable, although that could point to a certain amount of lack of communication.

 

Two of my Modern keys have been purchased through pre-sale (yes, through Jeff), and I won't hesitate to use his services again.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

[comicdonna]

I made a purchase shortly after joining the board that I did not realize (it wasn't super clear in the post) was a presale of books still at CGC. I was not aware until 2 weeks later I asked where my books were, only to find out that for some strange reason they were still at CGC. It was almost a month after I paid until I got my book. The seller is a great seller and I still purchase from them but I don't pay now until the book is in the sellers hand.

 

Anyway, it was something I learned to watch for, and I do not think I would pre-pay like that again.

 

 

Totally understandable, although that could point to a certain amount of lack of communication.

 

Two of my Modern keys have been purchased through pre-sale (yes, through Jeff), and I won't hesitate to use his services again.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

After waiting many years for a copy for my collection to appear, I could probably wait out the duration of a pre-sale book transaction to finalize.

[sckao]

I made a purchase shortly after joining the board that I did not realize (it wasn't super clear in the post) was a presale of books still at CGC. I was not aware until 2 weeks later I asked where my books were, only to find out that for some strange reason they were still at CGC. It was almost a month after I paid until I got my book. The seller is a great seller and I still purchase from them but I don't pay now until the book is in the sellers hand.

 

Anyway, it was something I learned to watch for, and I do not think I would pre-pay like that again.

 

 

Totally understandable, although that could point to a certain amount of lack of communication.

 

Two of my Modern keys have been purchased through pre-sale (yes, through Jeff), and I won't hesitate to use his services again.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

 

I'm not saying Pre-Sales are bad. I'm just saying that since the seller doesn't have the book IN HAND, you shouldn't have to pay for it until the seller does.

 

Or is the premature payment to preclude the seller from selling it for a higher price elsewhere in the meanwhile because no money has changed hands? (That would constitute a breach of contract IMO.)

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2010 by sckao

[Boozad]

I made a purchase shortly after joining the board that I did not realize (it wasn't super clear in the post) was a presale of books still at CGC. I was not aware until 2 weeks later I asked where my books were, only to find out that for some strange reason they were still at CGC. It was almost a month after I paid until I got my book. The seller is a great seller and I still purchase from them but I don't pay now until the book is in the sellers hand.

 

Anyway, it was something I learned to watch for, and I do not think I would pre-pay like that again.

 

 

Totally understandable, although that could point to a certain amount of lack of communication.

 

Two of my Modern keys have been purchased through pre-sale (yes, through Jeff), and I won't hesitate to use his services again.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

After waiting many years for a copy for my collection to appear, I could probably wait out the duration of a pre-sale book transaction to finalize.

 

I suppose it's all down to the relationship between the buyer and seller. I had no fear that if the books didn't grade out then I'd have been refunded. I wouldn't go into it blind with a seller I didn't know, in that case Mike I'd be sharing exactly the same stance as you just posted (thumbs u

 

My point really was that not all pre-sales are bad or unworthy of the Probation thread as some have pointed out. That statement seems to be tarring a lot of good honest sellers with a brush.

[N/A]

I made a purchase shortly after joining the board that I did not realize (it wasn't super clear in the post) was a presale of books still at CGC. I was not aware until 2 weeks later I asked where my books were, only to find out that for some strange reason they were still at CGC. It was almost a month after I paid until I got my book. The seller is a great seller and I still purchase from them but I don't pay now until the book is in the sellers hand.

 

Anyway, it was something I learned to watch for, and I do not think I would pre-pay like that again.

 

 

Totally understandable, although that could point to a certain amount of lack of communication.

 

Two of my Modern keys have been purchased through pre-sale (yes, through Jeff), and I won't hesitate to use his services again.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

 

I'm not saying Pre-Sales are bad. I'm just saying the since the seller doesn't have the book IN HAND, you shouldn't have to pay for it until the seller does.

 

Or is the premature payment to preclude the seller from selling it for a higher price elsewhere in the meanwhile because no money has changed hands? (That would constitute a breach of contract IMO.)

 

 

 

 

I only guarantee the price if it's paid for or a substantial down payment. When hot books are rising in price I offer a discount and the price locked on presales only. Most of my presales are a turnaround of 2-3 weeks.

[divad]

I made a purchase shortly after joining the board that I did not realize (it wasn't super clear in the post) was a presale of books still at CGC. I was not aware until 2 weeks later I asked where my books were, only to find out that for some strange reason they were still at CGC. It was almost a month after I paid until I got my book. The seller is a great seller and I still purchase from them but I don't pay now until the book is in the sellers hand.

 

Anyway, it was something I learned to watch for, and I do not think I would pre-pay like that again.

 

 

Totally understandable, although that could point to a certain amount of lack of communication.

 

Two of my Modern keys have been purchased through pre-sale (yes, through Jeff), and I won't hesitate to use his services again.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

After waiting many years for a copy for my collection to appear, I could probably wait out the duration of a pre-sale book transaction to finalize.

 

After waiting 35 to 40 years to have a book graded, I could probably wait another 3-4 weeks to actually receive it before listing it for sale . . .

[faster friends]

I made a purchase shortly after joining the board that I did not realize (it wasn't super clear in the post) was a presale of books still at CGC. I was not aware until 2 weeks later I asked where my books were, only to find out that for some strange reason they were still at CGC. It was almost a month after I paid until I got my book. The seller is a great seller and I still purchase from them but I don't pay now until the book is in the sellers hand.

 

Anyway, it was something I learned to watch for, and I do not think I would pre-pay like that again.

 

 

Totally understandable, although that could point to a certain amount of lack of communication.

 

Two of my Modern keys have been purchased through pre-sale (yes, through Jeff), and I won't hesitate to use his services again.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

After waiting many years for a copy for my collection to appear, I could probably wait out the duration of a pre-sale book transaction to finalize.

 

After waiting 35 to 40 years to have a book graded, I could probably wait another 3-4 weeks to actually receive it before listing it for sale . . .

 

Thats what I was thinking. What's the rush?

[divad]

When hot books are rising in price.

 

Aye, there's the rub.

[N/A]

When hot books are rising in price.

 

Aye, there's the rub.

 

(thumbs u Only a Modern sales thing for me. BA/SA/GA I wait until I have it back. It's not like the price is suddenly going to change.

[GACollectibles]

. As GA would say "I'm not Santa Claus. I don't have a naughty list"

 

[jpolz]

To my surprise mikegg did make a 3rd post, but he's apparently unaware he's on the probation list so I sent him a PM.

 

Related to that, another user, Jmarch51, was put on the probation list 2 years ago and didn't know about it. I'm pretty sure a lot of people are unaware this probation list even exists.

 

Is there any communication at all when people go on the probation list? If not, would it be unreasonable to suggest that when a person is added to the probation list that they get sent a PM letting them know, and know who they need to contact to resolve the situation?

 

 

[Bosco685]

To my surprise mikegg did make a 3rd post, but he's apparently unaware he's on the probation list so I sent him a PM.

 

Related to that, another user, Jmarch51, was put on the probation list 2 years ago and didn't know about it. I'm pretty sure a lot of people are unaware this probation list even exists.

 

Is there any communication at all when people go on the probation list? If not, would it be unreasonable to suggest that when a person is added to the probation list that they get sent a PM letting them know, and know who they need to contact to resolve the situation?

Just the template someone made up when sending a note a given forumite has been added to the Probation List.

 

Probation List Template

[zuckuss2003]

If you are in a situation that gets you put on the list, yes I assume you have gotten some PM's, particularly PMs from the person putting you on the list trying to resolve the problem first.

[jpolz]

So in other words, no.

 

The 30 day waiting period is supposed to give people an opportunity to work out their problems. Instead what seems to be happening is a sale goes bad, people wait 30 days and then say "my sale went bad so I want to put so-and-so on the probation list" and boom! it happens.

 

That's not a warning to the rest of the board about buyers/sellers who ought to be avoided, that's a punishment from someone who's unhappy about a transaction that went bad (which, lets be honest, happens sometimes).

 

A search posts shows that Jmarch51 has had multiple successful transactions and received multiple kudos in the kudos thread after he was put on the probation list. Does he really deserve to be on the probie list, or was this a one-time mistake that could have been worked out if the two parties just talked before the offended buyer complained and said "I want him on the list".

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

Instead what seems to be happening is a sale goes bad, people wait 30 days and then say "my sale went bad so I want to put so-and-so on the probation list" and boom! it happens.

 

What are some examples of this happening?

[zuckuss2003]

I am pretty sure most people have attempted to work out any issues before just coming here and adding someone.

[comix4fun]

So in other words, no.

 

The 30 day waiting period is supposed to give people an opportunity to work out their problems. Instead what seems to be happening is a sale goes bad, people wait 30 days and then say "my sale went bad so I want to put so-and-so on the probation list" and boom! it happens.

 

That's not a warning to the rest of the board about buyers/sellers who ought to be avoided, that's a punishment from someone who's unhappy about a transaction that went bad (which, lets be honest, happens sometimes).

 

A search posts shows that Jmarch51 has had multiple successful transactions and received multiple kudos in the kudos thread after he was put on the probation list. Does he really deserve to be on the probie list, or was this a one-time mistake that could have been worked out if the two parties just talked before the offended buyer complained and said "I want him on the list".

 

 

 

By the time a complaint makes it here the parties have already talked it over, or the aggrieved party has TRIED to talk it over via email or PM and the other party has ignored those messages and responded to the negative regarding their willingness to correct the transaction.

 

As well, this is an open forum, all parties are free to come in and state their side of the story. It's not a secret cadre of masons deciding who the next ruler of Britannia will be.

 

This list is NOT a punishment to the offender, it is a source of information to people who buy and sell here. In fact there is a template that is placed within a thread where the probation list member has either attempted to sell or attempted to buy an item while they still have outstanding issues that they have refused to address. So you are incorrect that this list is not a warning to other list members. That is EXACTLY what this list is.

 

In all cases the party who was wronged in the transaction has attempted to get their books, or their money, or some form of compensation or correction from the party who would be placed on probation. That is the goal. They gain nothing by placing him on this list other than the knowledge they have warned others away from a similar fate. If the pressure of being on this list becomes too great or too cumbersome to the party on it they can feel free to correct the errors they have made in the past.

 

In both cases the list has been a valuable and proper tool for the job.

 

If you had been a member of this board for more time you would realize that there are several people on that list who have absconded with sums that would be equivalent to felony larceny in almost all jurisdictions. Others are simply inconsiderate and dishonest people who have taken advantage of other people on this list. If you feel that the you don't want to be notified of either type of person operating in our midst that is your choice. I do believe, however, that you will find yourself in the minority in that regard.

[jpolz]

 

Instead what seems to be happening is a sale goes bad, people wait 30 days and then say "my sale went bad so I want to put so-and-so on the probation list" and boom! it happens.

 

What are some examples of this happening?

 

mikegg is one. The sale went bad and he's on the probation list until he apologizes to the seller. After the sale went bad the seller made no effort to contact him to work things out to mutual satisfaction -- he refunded the money but was still upset so wants the guy on the probation list.

 

Look at Jmarch51 -- OK it's from 2 yrs ago but the posts are still there. Buyer reports the deal falls through and he took the book to ebay. Ok that's wrong. Didn't say anything about trying to contact him and say "hey we had a deal, we need to work this out". Just "the deal fell through let's probie him" and bang! the next day jmarch51 is on the probation list.

 

It's being used as a punishment by people who are angry their deals fell through. In neither case is anyone out any money or merchandise, and while I agree that backing out of a deal is wrong and should be discouraged, people are being added to the probation list for busted deals without actually trying to work things out.