PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Bosco685]

So ... have the rules for adding people to the probation list been changed now?

 

Because when I wanted to add jhurley to the list for flaking on a purchase I was repeatedly told that I had to wait 30 days - and yet branget just got someone added to the list within a day :shrug:

It's you.

[nocutename]

Branget and Boozad, while I am sure that David is more than happy to have members update the prob list. This transaction is not more than 30 days old. The newbie should not be on the list until the 30 day period.

 

I am not too sure that I really side with him being put on the list at all. It was a pre-sale and while he initially agreed to it probably found another copy. Did you give him a time frame for delivery? Does everyone see this as a cut and dry prob case? In any event he should be removed from the list for now and put on in 30 days time.

[GACollectibles]

I suppose that is why we have these threads, so that the other person can speak their piece, or peace, or...well, you get the picture;)

 

It's not perfect, but the probation list serves as a warning.

 

My question is, let's say the person really was nervous about the fact that the books were not "in hand". Would he be let off the hook if he admitted that? I know he said he wanted to move forward, but are second thoughts a terrible thing in this case?

 

That'd be up to the seller who put him on the list.

 

My problem with this, really, is the big opportunity I see for abuse. I think group policing works great when there's a lot of transparency. The thing is, message boards like this tend to be somewhat insular & protective of their own. People are going to believe a person they know over someone they don't; they're going to believe someone with a high post count over a low post count. That's natural and not necessarily bad -- but if you don't have at least a little transparency then it invites abuse too.

 

Look what we've got here: A sale that the only evidence of is from 1 person.

The other party added to the board's "not safe to do business with" list.

The only person who can remove him from that list? The person who put him there.

 

That's a fine system if we're all completely honest -- but eventually we're gonna get bit in the by someone who's had a run of bad luck or just isn't quite as honest as we thought they were.

 

Anyway, I've certainly had my say on this so I'll stop. The rest of the board is okay with this so there it is. I just thought I'd explain my position.

 

 

 

 

Part of the transparency issue is addressed by encouraging both parties to express their perspectives before an automatic rush to judgment.

 

Then, we proceed to pre-determined judgment plus tar & feathering.

[divad]

What was the reasoning behind his demands? Divad needs all the details so he can come to a ruling(or I'm just overly curious).

 

Just for the record, Divad doesn't make the final decision to put someone on the Probation List; it's up to the complainant.

 

That's correct . . . I'm just a scrivener

[Dick Pontoon]

I would prefer not to.

[Mac Man]

This reasoning doesn't really make sense to me.

 

The public never see's the paypal transactions, PM's, among many other variables.

 

I believe he's been added to the probation list. It will now be up to him to get off.

 

 

Now Mike, THAT was just TOO easy!

[Boozad]

I've removed my Probation update as told to by Divad via PM, so apprently yes he does run the Probation show.

 

I thought after Michael's case not long ago that it was down to case by case with sellers getting stiffed. Oh well Jeff, only another 24 days before you can bring it up again.

[Boozad]

Branget and Boozad, while I am sure that David is more than happy to have members update the prob list. This transaction is not more than 30 days old. The newbie should not be on the list until the 30 day period.

 

Even though he agreed to the terms then filed a chargeback four days later?

 

I am not too sure that I really side with him being put on the list at all. It was a pre-sale and while he initially agreed to it probably found another copy.

 

And you think this is an acceptable way to conduct yourself in the market place?

[Mac Man]

Branget and Boozad, while I am sure that David is more than happy to have members update the prob list. This transaction is not more than 30 days old. The newbie should not be on the list until the 30 day period.

 

Even though he agreed to the terms then filed a chargeback four days later?

 

I am not too sure that I really side with him being put on the list at all. It was a pre-sale and while he initially agreed to it probably found another copy.

 

And you think this is an acceptable way to conduct yourself in the market place?

 

Gav, it's not that the behavior was acceptable but just that these are rules that were established back in the beginning of the thread which is why Divad PM'd you. And I'd call him more of a "coordinator" of the thread than anything else.

 

NOW, if someone wanted to start a poll of some sort to gather public interest in adjusting this time period and an overwhelming majority was in favor, then maybe we could look into changing the 3-day stipulation?

[mschmidt]

I've removed my Probation update as told to by Divad via PM, so apprently yes he does run the Probation show.

 

I thought after Michael's case not long ago that it was down to case by case with sellers getting stiffed. Oh well Jeff, only another 24 days before you can bring it up again.

 

My opinion is that there need to be two different clauses for adding people to the probation list (and this applies to both sellers & buyers):

 

1a) If a buyer tells the seller that they have no intention of paying for a book they've committed to, forcing the seller to wait 30 days before being able to add the dead-beat to the Probation list is ridiculous. And it defeats the purpose of the list - to warn other sellers about problematic buyers.

 

1b) This applies to sellers as well - if a seller tells a buyer that he's not going to honor a sale, again, waiting 30 days before adding the seller to the Probation list is silly. There needs to be a fast-track option for these cases (say 3 days).

 

2a) If a buyer is slow in paying, doesn't quickly respond to PM's, but hasn't said outright that they're not going to pay, the usual 30 days remain in effect.

 

2b) If a seller is slow in shipping, doesn't quickly respond to PM's, but hasn't said outright that they're not going to honor the sale, the usual 30 days remain in effect.

 

Easy-peasy.

[Boboset]

I've removed my Probation update as told to by Divad via PM, so apprently yes he does run the Probation show.

 

I thought after Michael's case not long ago that it was down to case by case with sellers getting stiffed. Oh well Jeff, only another 24 days before you can bring it up again.

 

My opinion is that there need to be two different clauses for adding people to the probation list (and this applies to both sellers & buyers):

 

1a) If a buyer tells the seller that they have no intention of paying for a book they've committed to, forcing the seller to wait 30 days before being able to add the dead-beat to the Probation list is ridiculous. And it defeats the purpose of the list - to warn other sellers about problematic buyers.

 

1b) This applies to sellers as well - if a seller tells a buyer that he's not going to honor a sale, again, waiting 30 days before adding the seller to the Probation list is silly. There needs to be a fast-track option for these cases (say 3 days).

 

2a) If a buyer is slow in paying, doesn't quickly respond to PM's, but hasn't said outright that they're not going to pay, the usual 30 days remain in effect.

 

2b) If a seller is slow in shipping, doesn't quickly respond to PM's, but hasn't said outright that they're not going to honor the sale, the usual 30 days remain in effect.

 

Easy-peasy.

I don’t see it possible to argue against the points made above and I’m 100% in favor of this becoming the new guidelines.

[thehumantorch]

I've removed my Probation update as told to by Divad via PM, so apprently yes he does run the Probation show.

 

I thought after Michael's case not long ago that it was down to case by case with sellers getting stiffed. Oh well Jeff, only another 24 days before you can bring it up again.

 

My opinion is that there need to be two different clauses for adding people to the probation list (and this applies to both sellers & buyers):

 

1a) If a buyer tells the seller that they have no intention of paying for a book they've committed to, forcing the seller to wait 30 days before being able to add the dead-beat to the Probation list is ridiculous. And it defeats the purpose of the list - to warn other sellers about problematic buyers.

 

1b) This applies to sellers as well - if a seller tells a buyer that he's not going to honor a sale, again, waiting 30 days before adding the seller to the Probation list is silly. There needs to be a fast-track option for these cases (say 3 days).

 

2a) If a buyer is slow in paying, doesn't quickly respond to PM's, but hasn't said outright that they're not going to pay, the usual 30 days remain in effect.

 

2b) If a seller is slow in shipping, doesn't quickly respond to PM's, but hasn't said outright that they're not going to honor the sale, the usual 30 days remain in effect.

 

Easy-peasy.

I don’t see it possible to argue against the points made above and I’m 100% in favor of this becoming the new guidelines.

 

Makes perfect sense.

[divad]

I've removed my Probation update as told to by Divad via PM, so apprently yes he does run the Probation show.

 

As "requested" It's a community service. Thanks for stepping up to the plate (you just acted a tad too quickly)

[nocutename]

Branget and Boozad, while I am sure that David is more than happy to have members update the prob list. This transaction is not more than 30 days old. The newbie should not be on the list until the 30 day period.

 

Even though he agreed to the terms then filed a chargeback four days later?

 

I am not too sure that I really side with him being put on the list at all. It was a pre-sale and while he initially agreed to it probably found another copy.

 

And you think this is an acceptable way to conduct yourself in the market place?

 

I don't recall the seller stating the turn around time for the transaction. What if the transaction would not be finalized until after the 60-day paypal dispute window? Perhaps, the buyer agreed to the pre-sale but then later learned that he was forfeiting some form of buyer protection. Believe it or not this type of presale buying does happen on ebay.

 

This is a pre-sale where the seller did not run out and purchase the item specifically for the individual. He is not completely out of any money in a sense, just list it elsewhere or on the boards when it comes in.

 

I don't think this is a way of conducting a transaction. I am happy that this buyer was mentioned here. However, if I were the seller I would not want to complete a transaction with this type of buyer ever. Sorry but I don't see this as a punishable offense.

[nocutename]

I've removed my Probation update as told to by Divad via PM, so apprently yes he does run the Probation show.

 

I thought after Michael's case not long ago that it was down to case by case with sellers getting stiffed. Oh well Jeff, only another 24 days before you can bring it up again.

 

My opinion is that there need to be two different clauses for adding people to the probation list (and this applies to both sellers & buyers):

 

1a) If a buyer tells the seller that they have no intention of paying for a book they've committed to, forcing the seller to wait 30 days before being able to add the dead-beat to the Probation list is ridiculous. And it defeats the purpose of the list - to warn other sellers about problematic buyers.

 

1b) This applies to sellers as well - if a seller tells a buyer that he's not going to honor a sale, again, waiting 30 days before adding the seller to the Probation list is silly. There needs to be a fast-track option for these cases (say 3 days).

 

2a) If a buyer is slow in paying, doesn't quickly respond to PM's, but hasn't said outright that they're not going to pay, the usual 30 days remain in effect.

 

2b) If a seller is slow in shipping, doesn't quickly respond to PM's, but hasn't said outright that they're not going to honor the sale, the usual 30 days remain in effect.

 

Easy-peasy.

I don’t see it possible to argue against the points made above and I’m 100% in favor of this becoming the new guidelines.

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

This will be very unpopular but here it is... The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards. The 30-day period allows for some cool down plus gives time for a buyer who possibly has an emergency bill come up pay for their transaction.

 

The sellers here also have full time jobs. I personally don't mind waiting 30 days for a package.

Edited March 12, 2010 by nocutename

[Bosco685]

I've removed my Probation update as told to by Divad via PM, so apprently yes he does run the Probation show.

 

As "requested" It's a community service. Thanks for stepping up to the plate (you just acted a tad too quickly)

That's what I thought probably happened, as David has even said in the past this is a community-run activity. He just makes sure the rules are applied consistently and fairly.

[Bosco685]

The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards.

[kdoginohio]

The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards.

I prefer torches myself.

[divad]

The pitchforks come out way too fast on these boards.

I prefer torches myself.

 

tar

[Mr.Diggler]