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PROBATION DISCUSSIONS
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Started by alwaysbronze,

36,203 posts in this topic

Boozad

Boozad

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

Boozad, completely off topic but I just turned on signatures this week. Your daughter is adorable and has great taste. That is one of my favorites too.

 

Thanks Jean, she loves Batman just like her Dad. And I can't thank Jerel enough for that moment, he really is a star :)

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tortoise

tortoise

Posted
Posted (edited)
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

Edited by tortoise
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Loki

Loki

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

I don't think it was just the five-figure dollar value that resulted in the HOS bump. Stringing the seller along for months and months with promises of payment contributed. As did the utter lack of remorse after backing out of the deal.

 

But I think the biggest factor was the hypocrisy regarding restitution for expenses. If I recall correctly, TFL had someone back out of a deal for a ~$100 book which he subsequently sold for less than the original deal. TFL wanted the original buyer to make up his "loss" on the book. This occurred shortly after TFL had refused responsibility for the seller's losses (interest charges, declining a higher offer, etc) on the book that he had backed out on. I believe it was at THIS point that TFL got nominated for the Probation List. The seller had otherwise been willing to let it go, but got pissed about the double standard.

 

Of course I may have misremembered some of the details...

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

Posted
Posted (edited)
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

I don't think it was just the five-figure dollar value that resulted in the HOS bump. Stringing the seller along for months and months with promises of payment contributed. As did the utter lack of remorse after backing out of the deal.

 

But I think the biggest factor was the hypocrisy regarding restitution for expenses. If I recall correctly, TFL had someone back out of a deal for a ~$100 book which he subsequently sold for less than the original deal. TFL wanted the original buyer to make up his "loss" on the book. This occurred shortly after TFL had refused responsibility for the seller's losses (interest charges, declining a higher offer, etc) on the book that he had backed out on. I believe it was at THIS point that TFL got nominated for the Probation List. The seller had otherwise been willing to let it go, but got pissed about the double standard.

 

Of course I may have misremembered some of the details...

 

The $$ amount does make a difference. Failing to pay for a cheap book isn't likely to hurt the seller but TFL's failure to pay for an expensive book cost the seller an opportunity to sell the book elsewhere and cost the seller significant $$ in interest.

Edited by thehumantorch
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tortoise

tortoise

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

I don't think it was just the five-figure dollar value that resulted in the HOS bump. Stringing the seller along for months and months with promises of payment contributed. As did the utter lack of remorse after backing out of the deal.

 

But I think the biggest factor was the hypocrisy regarding restitution for expenses. If I recall correctly, TFL had someone back out of a deal for a ~$100 book which he subsequently sold for less than the original deal. TFL wanted the original buyer to make up his "loss" on the book. This occurred shortly after TFL had refused responsibility for the seller's losses (interest charges, declining a higher offer, etc) on the book that he had backed out on. I believe it was at THIS point that TFL got nominated for the Probation List. The seller had otherwise been willing to let it go, but got pissed about the double standard.

 

Of course I may have misremembered some of the details...

 

yeah, TFL definitly screwed up, but I still think what Danimal has done is worse.

The guy is essentially looking like a theif at this point, and he is dragging other innocent members into this as well. Say what u will about LTS not being involved, she WILL be judged,and scrutinized for this by many members here.

Although I do beleive that LTS is innocent, and should not be held responsible for Danimals action.. I wouldnt buy from, or sell to her b/c of Danimal... and whether they admit it or not I'm sure many members would agree with me.

 

the poll pretty much says it all.. just a matter of time.

 

 

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Boozad

Boozad

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

Put the seller in a bad situation? It cost him over $1,000 out of his own pocket to not sell the book TFL said he'd take. You don't think that's as bad as Danimal?

 

 

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tortoise

tortoise

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

Put the seller in a bad situation? It cost him over $1,000 out of his own pocket to not sell the book TFL said he'd take. You don't think that's as bad as Danimal?

 

 

from a monetary value yes. but doesnt the seller have to take some responsibilty?

when 20k is involved I think benefit of the doubt has to be thrown out the window, and a deposit has to be made befor the book is taken off the market at all.

 

Not defending TFL here, he belongs on the HOS, but I just cant see why theres a question in regards to Danimal

 

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Snake Eyes

Snake Eyes

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

I don't think it was just the five-figure dollar value that resulted in the HOS bump. Stringing the seller along for months and months with promises of payment contributed. As did the utter lack of remorse after backing out of the deal.

 

But I think the biggest factor was the hypocrisy regarding restitution for expenses. If I recall correctly, TFL had someone back out of a deal for a ~$100 book which he subsequently sold for less than the original deal. TFL wanted the original buyer to make up his "loss" on the book. This occurred shortly after TFL had refused responsibility for the seller's losses (interest charges, declining a higher offer, etc) on the book that he had backed out on. I believe it was at THIS point that TFL got nominated for the Probation List. The seller had otherwise been willing to let it go, but got pissed about the double standard.

 

Of course I may have misremembered some of the details...

 

The $$ amount does make a difference. Failing to pay for a cheap book isn't likely to hurt the seller but TFL's failure to pay for an expensive book cost the seller an opportunity to sell the book elsewhere and cost the seller significant $$ in interest.

 

I think there is something to what Tortoise is saying though. While the amount of money would certainly matter to a criminal prosecution (i.e. theft by deception second degree vs. third degree or something like that). However, we must keep in mind that a wide variety of people are represented on this board, and what may seem like a lot of money to some folks is negligible to others. For example, $100 is not much for an order to me; but $1000 is. Similarly, someone might see my $100 order and think that would set them back quite a bit. So without knowing someone's personal financial situation we cannot say just how hurt they were by the act :shrug: Therefore, not knowing this (in the case of the folks apparently taken by Danimal) caution would suggest we assume the worst and take the larger step (HOS vs. probation) to protect the community from such shennanigans in the future.

 

Of course, this is pretty much the same as the argument about laws for enhanced sentencing in hate crimes. Do we punish the act only, or do we also add weight to the reason/thought processes. Reasonable minds differ and doubt a strong consensus will be reached. :juggle: I think the vote started by Bosco is probably the best way to determine this issue. Someone should probably start a thread in general to direct folks here, but felt it was not my place since I was not in one of these transactions.

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Boozad

Boozad

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

Put the seller in a bad situation? It cost him over $1,000 out of his own pocket to not sell the book TFL said he'd take. You don't think that's as bad as Danimal?

 

 

from a monetary value yes. but doesnt the seller have to take some responsibilty?

when 20k is involved I think benefit of the doubt has to be thrown out the window, and a deposit has to be made befor the book is taken off the market at all.

 

Not defending TFL here, he belongs on the HOS, but I just cant see why theres a question in regards to Danimal

 

When did I question Danimal's nomination? I'm questioning how you equate somebody costing someone $1,000 and showing no remorse less than someone taking other people's money?

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tortoise

tortoise

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

Put the seller in a bad situation? It cost him over $1,000 out of his own pocket to not sell the book TFL said he'd take. You don't think that's as bad as Danimal?

 

 

from a monetary value yes. but doesnt the seller have to take some responsibilty?

when 20k is involved I think benefit of the doubt has to be thrown out the window, and a deposit has to be made befor the book is taken off the market at all.

 

Not defending TFL here, he belongs on the HOS, but I just cant see why theres a question in regards to Danimal

 

When did I question Danimal's nomination? I'm questioning how you equate somebody costing someone $1,000 and showing no remorse less than someone taking other people's money?

 

I'm sorry, that statement was not directed at you, more directed at the forum in general, namely the 7 or 8 no votes on the poll.

 

and I'm not nessasarily saying it worse, but definitly as bad.

if the monetary values were similar there would be no question.

 

but as bosco said TFL is blacklisted already.. I appologize for reviving a dead issue

 

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LovinTheSurfer

LovinTheSurfer

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

I don't think it was just the five-figure dollar value that resulted in the HOS bump. Stringing the seller along for months and months with promises of payment contributed. As did the utter lack of remorse after backing out of the deal.

 

But I think the biggest factor was the hypocrisy regarding restitution for expenses. If I recall correctly, TFL had someone back out of a deal for a ~$100 book which he subsequently sold for less than the original deal. TFL wanted the original buyer to make up his "loss" on the book. This occurred shortly after TFL had refused responsibility for the seller's losses (interest charges, declining a higher offer, etc) on the book that he had backed out on. I believe it was at THIS point that TFL got nominated for the Probation List. The seller had otherwise been willing to let it go, but got pissed about the double standard.

 

Of course I may have misremembered some of the details...

 

yeah, TFL definitly screwed up, but I still think what Danimal has done is worse.

The guy is essentially looking like a theif at this point, and he is dragging other innocent members into this as well. Say what u will about LTS not being involved, she WILL be judged,and scrutinized for this by many members here.

Although I do beleive that LTS is innocent, and should not be held responsible for Danimals action.. I wouldnt buy from, or sell to her b/c of Danimal... and whether they admit it or not I'm sure many members would agree with me.

 

the poll pretty much says it all.. just a matter of time.

 

 

I'm not sure what you would like me to do about this situation....Would you like me to hold his head under water or maybe chinese water torture to make him do the things he says he is going to do? This is his problem, again and again I have said to leave me out of this. Yes, I ship things like I say I'm going to and I'm sick reading the same mess over and over again. Yes, I messed up he realizes that but there is really nothing more that I can do about it.

 

Now about selling or buying from/to me...thats just ridiculous. 1). I don't have anything left that I wish to sell. 2). I really don't have the $$ or the time to be collecting comics. So no worries there. But you can ask anyone that I have bought from that I'm never late on a payment nor did I ever wait over 5 days to ship something. I am not Dan...I am my own person with my own responsibilities..just like dan but I can make him do things..I am not his mommy.

 

So please...leave me out of this. Put him in the HOS for all I care, it is his problem..not mine. I tried to tell him and I am sick of screaming at him about all the damn PMs and Emails I get.

 

I can't handle this kind of stress right now, so as I have said probably a million times by now...leave me out of it. Thanks!

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tortoise

tortoise

Posted
Posted
but if TFL can get added for not paying for a book

 

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

I don't think it is.

sure it was an expenssive book, and apparantly put the seller in a bad situation, but that shouldnt make him any more eligable for the HOS then if it were a $1.00 book that he didnt pay for .

in the end its the act not the value .

and considering (to my knowledge) TFL had a bad (very bad) dealing with a single member vs the 4 or 5 that Danimal is involved with, makes Danimal(IMO) much more worthy of a HOS spot then TFL is.

 

again, just my 2c .

 

I don't think it was just the five-figure dollar value that resulted in the HOS bump. Stringing the seller along for months and months with promises of payment contributed. As did the utter lack of remorse after backing out of the deal.

 

But I think the biggest factor was the hypocrisy regarding restitution for expenses. If I recall correctly, TFL had someone back out of a deal for a ~$100 book which he subsequently sold for less than the original deal. TFL wanted the original buyer to make up his "loss" on the book. This occurred shortly after TFL had refused responsibility for the seller's losses (interest charges, declining a higher offer, etc) on the book that he had backed out on. I believe it was at THIS point that TFL got nominated for the Probation List. The seller had otherwise been willing to let it go, but got pissed about the double standard.

 

Of course I may have misremembered some of the details...

 

yeah, TFL definitly screwed up, but I still think what Danimal has done is worse.

The guy is essentially looking like a theif at this point, and he is dragging other innocent members into this as well. Say what u will about LTS not being involved, she WILL be judged,and scrutinized for this by many members here.

Although I do beleive that LTS is innocent, and should not be held responsible for Danimals action.. I wouldnt buy from, or sell to her b/c of Danimal... and whether they admit it or not I'm sure many members would agree with me.

 

the poll pretty much says it all.. just a matter of time.

 

 

I'm not sure what you would like me to do about this situation....Would you like me to hold his head under water or maybe chinese water torture to make him do the things he says he is going to do? This is his problem, again and again I have said to leave me out of this. Yes, I ship things like I say I'm going to and I'm sick reading the same mess over and over again. Yes, I messed up he realizes that but there is really nothing more that I can do about it.

 

Now about selling or buying from/to me...thats just ridiculous. 1). I don't have anything left that I wish to sell. 2). I really don't have the $$ or the time to be collecting comics. So no worries there. But you can ask anyone that I have bought from that I'm never late on a payment nor did I ever wait over 5 days to ship something. I am not Dan...I am my own person with my own responsibilities..just like dan but I can make him do things..I am not his mommy.

 

So please...leave me out of this. Put him in the HOS for all I care, it is his problem..not mine. I tried to tell him and I am sick of screaming at him about all the damn PMs and Emails I get.

 

I can't handle this kind of stress right now, so as I have said probably a million times by now...leave me out of it. Thanks!

 

Like i said, I think your innocent

and its not so much that I was saying that I wouldnt sell to/buy from you, as I was saying I wouldnt sell to/buy from Danimals residence.

I'm not bringing u into this, or putting any blame on your shoulders. I'm simply pointing out that he is hurting other people with these actions, innocent people.

As has been said numerous times, you are not responsible for Danimals actions, but as a frequent seller/buyer I'd be reluctant of dealing with you.. not saying its right..but its the truth

In effect Danimal belongs on the HOS.

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divad

divad

Posted
Posted

TheDanimal has been added to the Hall of Shame by majority vote -- it's been way too long, and too many aggrieved parties. :sumo:

 

The whole community needs to know when this stuff happens.

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