SNE to flood eBay with 13,000 slabs?

[FlyingDonut]

I think a very good LONG term play are Marvels from 1997-2001 in very high grade. You can pick them up, if you're patient, for next to nothing. Buy them, and put them away for 15 years. VERY low print runs for mainstream titles.

 

This is absolutely true, and I've been preaching this for years. This is especially true o "the dead years" 1999-2001. Printruns were ridiculously low, with the top selling books around the 100-120K mark for any given month.

 

Books like Wonder Woman and Flash were in the 30,000-50,000 range.

 

Astonishing numbers, compared to the rest of their history.

 

But, the census will still alwaybe top heavy on these books, and it really will take a renaissance for these books to amount to anything.

 

That said, I've been quietly buying them for about ten years now.

 

If I had to pick, I would say:

 

Amazing Spiderman #430-441, #1-30

X-Men #80-100

Uncanny X-Men #360-400

Batman #560-600

 

Daredevil 1-30

Fantastic Four 1-30

Flash, Wonder Woman, Justice League

[ShowcaseNE]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

 

I don't want to get into a discusssion about economics all that much.....But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar.

 

The inflation adjusted method, or index, released by the US Government is not a realistic measure. It is similar to the same type of goofy measure that Wall Street uses when they compare portfolio returns to the S & P index. Both fraudulent comparisons in my opinion because they ignore real pricing in a global market.

 

If you think it is useful, try using it as defense when then the price of oil (a global commodity in which the price is set by world markets, as reflected by "the basket" of currencies) goes to 200...$300 and higher as the dollar devalues.

[RockMyAmadeus]

learn how to quote, newb!

 

[ShowcaseNE]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

so in layman terms people who thought thier comics books were going up dollarwise,found out that thier comics are not worth as much because the us dollar has gone down in value.

 

Yes. Which doesn't matter much if you need to buy items that are produced entirely in the United States. As the dollars devalues, so don't real wages and other US measures of economic output such as domestic GDP. It makes all the difference in the world, however, if you have to trade your comic books to buy oil with which to heat your house.

[ShowcaseNE]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

so in layman terms people who thought thier comics books were going up dollarwise,found out that thier comics are not worth as much because the us dollar has gone down in value.

 

No. Not unless you're selling the books to buy foreign currency denominated assets.

 

Yes, all natural resources, pretty much without exception (I can't think of one), are priced by the global market which is why the dollar is getting hammered, relentlessly.

[500Club]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

 

I don't want to get into a discusssion about economics all that much.....But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar.

 

The inflation adjusted method, or index, released by the US Government is not a realistic measure. It is similar to the same type of goofy measure that Wall Street uses when they compare portfolio returns to the S & P index. Both fraudulent comparisons in my opinion because they ignore real pricing in a global market.

 

If you think it is useful, try using it as defense when then the price of oil (a global commodity in which the price is set by world markets, as reflected by "the basket" of currencies) goes to 200...$300 and higher as the dollar devalues.

 

It's only an appropriate way to measure the dollar if you are using said dollars to acquire foreign assets, or foreign currency based assets. The oil you mention, as a global commodity, ultimately ends up in that class.

 

I sure as he!! don't see the US dollar spending domestically at half of its 2003 purshasing power.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think a very good LONG term play are Marvels from 1997-2001 in very high grade. You can pick them up, if you're patient, for next to nothing. Buy them, and put them away for 15 years. VERY low print runs for mainstream titles.

 

This is absolutely true, and I've been preaching this for years. This is especially true o "the dead years" 1999-2001. Printruns were ridiculously low, with the top selling books around the 100-120K mark for any given month.

 

Books like Wonder Woman and Flash were in the 30,000-50,000 range.

 

Astonishing numbers, compared to the rest of their history.

 

But, the census will still alwaybe top heavy on these books, and it really will take a renaissance for these books to amount to anything.

 

That said, I've been quietly buying them for about ten years now.

 

If I had to pick, I would say:

 

Amazing Spiderman #430-441, #1-30

X-Men #80-100

Uncanny X-Men #360-400

Batman #560-600

 

Daredevil 1-30

Fantastic Four 1-30

Flash, Wonder Woman, Justice League

 

This character dropping nonsense the boards have is really starting to make my posts look bad....

 

 

Flash, I would say #164-200 (which goes a bit beyond 2001, but the book's numbers didn't improve dramatically until the Turner covers and Identity Crisis.)

 

Wonder Woman, pretty much anything post-Byrne to 220 or so. Those Adam Hughes covers are all winners.

 

I'd be willing to put money that there are more copies of EVERY issue of WW from 1963-1985 in existence than there ANY issue between #150-200 (2nd series.)

 

DD for sure...even with the Kevin Smith massive bump in numbers, they still pale in comparison even to Ann Nocenti's numbers from the late 80's!

[Bronty]

sure. I can't imagine a scenario where a natural resource wouldn't be priced by the global market. That would imply arbitrage opportunities

[ShowcaseNE]

learn how to quote, newb!

 

I'm a newbie.....I haven't figured it all out yet.

[N/A]

Most...

 

1980's/1990's do have some good books.

 

Example most of the Uncanny X-men from 143-current in 9.8 sells for barely over $20.00, and even the ones that do not like #212 have come down like 60%.

 

I grew up on these books and I not being negative.

 

Just trying to keep it in prespective.

 

How much of the decline can you attribute to a bad economy or a lack of super hero movie? Although I agree that there is a slight market correction I do not agree in a continued decline.

You mentioned JB X-men and it seems there was some inflation with the movies and a decline with the economy. I'd be surprised to see further decline but not by a slight rebound.

[Sqeggs]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

 

I don't want to get into a discusssion about economics all that much.....But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar.

 

The inflation adjusted method, or index, released by the US Government is not a realistic measure. It is similar to the same type of goofy measure that Wall Street uses when they compare portfolio returns to the S & P index. Both fraudulent comparisons in my opinion because they ignore real pricing in a global market.

 

If you think it is useful, try using it as defense when then the price of oil (a global commodity in which the price is set by world markets, as reflected by "the basket" of currencies) goes to 200...$300 and higher as the dollar devalues.

 

You have it backwards. If you live in the U.S., the correct measure of the value of the dollar is in terms of U.S. prices. The price level is about 20 percent higher now than it was at the beginning of 2002. The price level is lower today than it was a year ago. That the value of the dollar has declined against the euro and other currencies is interesting if you happen to be a European comic collector buying from U.S. dealers (or, for that matter, a U.S. collector buying from European dealers), but otherwise is irrelevant to evaluating the value of U.S. comics to U.S. collectors. "But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar." This statement makes no sense unless your local supermarkets, department stores, and services stations have started pricing in euros.

 

The "value" of the dollar to anyone living in the United States is determined by the amount of goods and services the dollar can buy, which is affected by the declining exchange value of the dollar only to the extent that the dollar price of imports rises.

 

Oil is currently at $78. It could go to $300, I suppose, because anything is possible. The chances of that happening within the next decade, though, are vanishingly small.

 

[Bronty]

you said that so much better than my scrapped post on the same point. kudos.

[Sqeggs]

Wow! So much negativity and hostility.

 

Where does it come from?

 

The 30 and 40's books were lost to the paper drives because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 40's and early 50's were barely bought because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 50's and 60's were thrown out because no one thought it was possible that the stuff being printed was anything other than pure junk and no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 70"s started selling what was previously thought to be junk in the 40's and 50's, but still threw out the books from the 60"s because no one thought they would ever be worth anything. The dealers in the 80's threw out the 70's books because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 90's continued to throw out the books from the 70's and added the 80's to the pile because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

Everyone wants those 70's books back.

 

And now the 80's are in.

 

Today dealers are throwing out the 90's (because they reflect the attitudes of the todays collectors) because no one thinks they will ever be worth anything.

 

Is it my imagination, or is there a pattern here???

 

I don't want to be the contrarian here, and I definetely would not want to disagree with so many who feel the 80's and 90's books are so worthless. (By the way...how many of you know that getting 9.8's on post glut 90s era books is actually not all that easy for two reasons....they didn't print that many (because no one thought they would ever be worth anything), and the paper is extremely fickle.)

 

All of a sudden, I have this desire to run to my warehouse and see what else I can waste my money on.

 

I was tired earlier....But I now feel completely rejuvenated! What in the world is wrong with me??

 

 

 

 

 

 

The dealers in 1970s threw out the books from the 1960s?? Man, you must not have been alive then because by 1965, nobody was throwing out any Marvel or DC. Hell, books from the 1960s made up most of the business for dealers in the 1970s. Anything that people thought had the remotest chance of being another FF1, ASM1, of AF15 was stockpiled to the rafters. If everybody threw out 1960s books, why are there are so many post-1965 high grade books around?

[COI]

you said that so much better than my scrapped post on the same point. kudos.

 

Same here. I was in the process of making a response, but he did it quicker, and it's much better than mine would have been.

[500Club]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

 

I don't want to get into a discusssion about economics all that much.....But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar.

 

The inflation adjusted method, or index, released by the US Government is not a realistic measure. It is similar to the same type of goofy measure that Wall Street uses when they compare portfolio returns to the S & P index. Both fraudulent comparisons in my opinion because they ignore real pricing in a global market.

 

If you think it is useful, try using it as defense when then the price of oil (a global commodity in which the price is set by world markets, as reflected by "the basket" of currencies) goes to 200...$300 and higher as the dollar devalues.

 

You have it backwards. If you live in the U.S., the correct measure of the value of the dollar is in terms of U.S. prices. The price level is about 20 percent higher now than it was at the beginning of 2002. The price level is lower today than it was a year ago. That the value of the dollar has declined against the euro and other currencies is interesting if you happen to be a European comic collector buying from U.S. dealers (or, for that matter, a U.S. collector buying from European dealers), but otherwise is irrelevant to evaluating the value of U.S. comics to U.S. collectors. "But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar." This statement makes no sense unless your local supermarkets, department stores, and services stations have started pricing in euros.

 

The "value" of the dollar to anyone living in the United States is determined by the amount of goods and services the dollar can buy, which is affected by the declining exchange value of the dollar only to the extent that the dollar price of imports rises.

 

Oil is currently at $78. It could go to $300, I suppose, because anything is possible. The chances of that happening within the next decade, though, are vanishingly small.

 

Thank you for reiterating.

 

I don't think he was taking my word for it.

[ShowcaseNE]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

 

I don't want to get into a discusssion about economics all that much.....But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar.

 

The inflation adjusted method, or index, released by the US Government is not a realistic measure. It is similar to the same type of goofy measure that Wall Street uses when they compare portfolio returns to the S & P index. Both fraudulent comparisons in my opinion because they ignore real pricing in a global market.

 

If you think it is useful, try using it as defense when then the price of oil (a global commodity in which the price is set by world markets, as reflected by "the basket" of currencies) goes to 200...$300 and higher as the dollar devalues.

 

You have it backwards. If you live in the U.S., the correct measure of the value of the dollar is in terms of U.S. prices. The price level is about 20 percent higher now than it was at the beginning of 2002. The price level is lower today than it was a year ago. That the value of the dollar has declined against the euro and other currencies is interesting if you happen to be a European comic collector buying from U.S. dealers (or, for that matter, a U.S. collector buying from European dealers), but otherwise is irrelevant to evaluating the value of U.S. comics to U.S. collectors. "But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar." This statement makes no sense unless your local supermarkets, department stores, and services stations have started pricing in euros.

 

The "value" of the dollar to anyone living in the United States is determined by the amount of goods and services the dollar can buy, which is affected by the declining exchange value of the dollar only to the extent that the dollar price of imports rises.

 

Oil is currently at $78. It could go to $300, I suppose, because anything is possible. The chances of that happening within the next decade, though, are vanishingly small.

 

Lets agree to disagreee. One of us is missing the point and doesn't know it.

 

Let me finish with this...natural resources are a key ingredient in the factors of production. Natural resources are priced in the global market. Consequently, because the dollar has devalued so much, raw resources (commodities) have sky rocketed vs. a vs. the US dollar. The reason that most produced goods in the United States seem to have, at most, moderated to some extent, is because real wages are down, and productivity is up, which serves the purpose of masking the change in prices for raw materials. This will not continue to occur over the long run. It is a mathematical impossibility. This is the simple version as there are other things that occur which complicate these relatively basic concepts (that is as far I go here though).

 

Most products that are measured by the Goofy US price inflation index have components in them that reflect (intentionally, I might add) items that have high concentrations of depressed labor prices, and elements of productivity.

 

The dollar and real inflation (or dollar devaluation) would be completely exposed for what it is if it were compared to a basket of natural resources which everyone on the planet had to compete for.

 

As I said....it doesn't matter all that much if you never need to buy anything that isn't priced in the global market, such as oil, copper, zinc, coffee, or even concrete for builing, and on and on and on. But that's not the case, is it?

 

As long as Americans continue to work harder, and longer, for less money, the problem of inflation and the devaluation of the dollar wiil stay under the radar for most Americans, which has been illustraded, in my opinion, by the back and forth discussion here.

[Not*Sure*]

[RockMyAmadeus]

The dealers in 1970s threw out the books from the 1960s?? Man, you must not have been alive then because by 1965, nobody was throwing out any Marvel or DC. Hell, books from the 1960s made up most of the business for dealers in the 1970s. Anything that people thought had the remotest chance of being another FF1, ASM1, of AF15 was stockpiled to the rafters. If everybody threw out 1960s books, why are there are so many post-1965 high grade books around?

 

Well....

 

That's true to an extent, but not entirely...

 

Remember, there were massive piles of books like Superboy floating around in the 1970's that NO one wanted. Keeping in mind that Superboy was the #2 selling book for at least a handful of years in the 1960's, there would be quite a bit that were tossed out because they took up too much space, and were worthless junk (and still are.)

 

And remember, this was the 70's, not the 90's. People still routinely threw out comics on a grand scale back then.

[Bronty]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

 

I don't want to get into a discusssion about economics all that much.....But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar.

 

The inflation adjusted method, or index, released by the US Government is not a realistic measure. It is similar to the same type of goofy measure that Wall Street uses when they compare portfolio returns to the S & P index. Both fraudulent comparisons in my opinion because they ignore real pricing in a global market.

 

If you think it is useful, try using it as defense when then the price of oil (a global commodity in which the price is set by world markets, as reflected by "the basket" of currencies) goes to 200...$300 and higher as the dollar devalues.

 

You have it backwards. If you live in the U.S., the correct measure of the value of the dollar is in terms of U.S. prices. The price level is about 20 percent higher now than it was at the beginning of 2002. The price level is lower today than it was a year ago. That the value of the dollar has declined against the euro and other currencies is interesting if you happen to be a European comic collector buying from U.S. dealers (or, for that matter, a U.S. collector buying from European dealers), but otherwise is irrelevant to evaluating the value of U.S. comics to U.S. collectors. "But comparing the dollar to a basket of global currencies is the correct and appropriate method to measure the dollar." This statement makes no sense unless your local supermarkets, department stores, and services stations have started pricing in euros.

 

The "value" of the dollar to anyone living in the United States is determined by the amount of goods and services the dollar can buy, which is affected by the declining exchange value of the dollar only to the extent that the dollar price of imports rises.

 

Oil is currently at $78. It could go to $300, I suppose, because anything is possible. The chances of that happening within the next decade, though, are vanishingly small.

 

Lets agree to disagreee. One of us is missing the point and doesn't know it.

 

Let me finish with this...natural resources are a key ingredient in the factors of production.

 

CPA to CPA I don't think you're giving everyone else enough credit because I don't think anyone is missing that point at all. Certainly in this day and age of many things being priced globally it is impossible for a falling dollar as compared to other currencies to not affect, at least somewhat, the amount of goods and services that can be bought with that dollar. But its not the direct, 1:1 relationship you're making it out to be. There are components of goods and services sourced outside of the country. There are components sourced inside. Point is a 20% drop in the US dollar does not equate to a 20% reduction in its value *from the pov of someone who mostly earns and spends US dollars*. There will be a reduction sure. Can't buy as many TVs designed in japan and made in china with components from five different countries. But it isn't a 20% reduction, not by a long shot.

[ShowcaseNE]

If I remember correctly...Marvel printed some 50 million books in the 60's.....so if the majority of them weren't destroyed...where are they?

 

 

And as the 70's and 80's go....in the early 90's we couldn't sell the tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands in total) to any one. In the early 90's we had 13 comic book stores within a 10 mile radius. I couldn't give them away, even to them

 

They all ended up in the dump.