SNE to flood eBay with 13,000 slabs?

[Bronty]

They were low print runs because nobody wanted them. I seriously doubt anyone will in 15 or 50 years.

Didn't DEAD-POOL have a short print run towards the end?

 

There will def. be a few titles wanted and maybe some wanted by completists that want every issue of FF or whatever. Anything non-mainstream I can't see anyone giving two kreps. As donut says though that's a long long term play and hands up who has more space to house another five boxes of krepe for 15 years. Not me.

[Bronty]

On that point. I really wonder when we will get to the point where nobody wants to buy stuff like that... stuff that fills completist runs.... because their closets and everyone's are already crammed to the max.

[ShowcaseNE]

They were low print runs because nobody wanted them. I seriously doubt anyone will in 15 or 50 years.

 

The same thing was said about Hulk 181, Giants Size X-men 1 and X-men 94 when they started to go up in price.

[500Club]

Wow! So much negativity and hostility.

 

Where does it come from?

 

The 30 and 40's books were lost to the paper drives because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 40's and early 50's were barely bought because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 50's and 60's were thrown out because no one thought it was possible that the stuff being printed was anything other than pure junk and no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 70"s started selling what was previously thought to be junk in the 40's and 50's, but still threw out the books from the 60"s because no one thought they would ever be worth anything. The dealers in the 80's threw out the 70's books because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 90's continued to throw out the books from the 70's and added the 80's to the pile because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

Everyone wants those 70's books back.

 

And now the 80's are in.

 

Today dealers are throwing out the 90's (because they reflect the attitudes of the todays collectors) because no one thinks they will ever be worth anything.

 

Is it my imagination, or is there a pattern here???

 

I don't want to be the contrarian here, and I definetely would not want to disagree with so many who feel the 80's and 90's books are so worthless. (By the way...how many of you know that getting 9.8's on post glut 90s era books is actually not all that easy for two reasons....they didn't print that many (because no one thought they would ever be worth anything), and the paper is extremely fickle.)

 

All of a sudden, I have this desire to run to my warehouse and see what else I can waste my money on.

 

I was tired earlier....But I now feel completely rejuvenated! What in the world is wrong with me??

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with the 'history repeats itself' argument is the fact that the collector base is shrinking. We are not dealing with a static set of circumstances from which to draw conclusions.

 

'A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds' may be the axiom that rules the day here. If you can sell a swath of 90s books in 9.8 now, don't hesitate.

[underthebigw]

Wow! So much negativity and hostility.

 

Where does it come from?

 

The 30 and 40's books were lost to the paper drives because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 40's and early 50's were barely bought because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 50's and 60's were thrown out because no one thought it was possible that the stuff being printed was anything other than pure junk and no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 70"s started selling what was previously thought to be junk in the 40's and 50's, but still threw out the books from the 60"s because no one thought they would ever be worth anything. The dealers in the 80's threw out the 70's books because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 90's continued to throw out the books from the 70's and added the 80's to the pile because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

Everyone wants those 70's books back.

 

And now the 80's are in.

 

Today dealers are throwing out the 90's (because they reflect the attitudes of the todays collectors) because no one thinks they will ever be worth anything.

 

Is it my imagination, or is there a pattern here???

 

I don't want to be the contrarian here, and I definetely would not want to disagree with so many who feel the 80's and 90's books are so worthless. (By the way...how many of you know that getting 9.8's on post glut 90s era books is actually not all that easy for two reasons....they didn't print that many (because no one thought they would ever be worth anything), and the paper is extremely fickle.)

 

All of a sudden, I have this desire to run to my warehouse and see what else I can waste my money on.

 

I was tired earlier....But I now feel completely rejuvenated! What in the world is wrong with me??

 

 

 

 

 

 

I gotta disagree on this.

 

 

• NOTHING has been thrown out since the late 1960's. Dealers may blow these books out, bottom feeders may hoard them, they may sit in basements and storage spaces, but there is ALWAYS someone willing to take a gample if the price is right.
   
  
• I've been collecting since 1975. At no point in this time did dealers think SA was worthless. Some may have had disdain for anything not GA, but they all knew there was a market from it and were glad to sell it.
   
  
• I think it's safe to say that the last year has made it clear that BA prices, except for uber HG and keys, have been steadily falling. It's actually a little sad.
   
  
• My humble opinion--books from the late 1970's on will be common as dirt in 9.8. And if they aren't, they be pressed into plentiness.
   
  
• At no point from the late 1940's through the early 1990's was the numbers of collectors falling. Now it is declining precipitously. Even with the 20 year rule and nostaglia of collectors growing up in the 1980's, is there going to be the same demand that drove the rise in SA and BA values. Ever.
   
  

[ShowcaseNE]

His is correct in that every generation thought the previous generation's books were not going to be worth much.

 

 

And you know what? Its kind of a fallacy that those generations were wrong. Clearly with respect to hg books they were... but hg emphasis is "relatively" new.

 

Point is with very very few exceptions you can buy anything 1960-1990 in vg for next to nothing.

 

hg copies turned that on its ear because they were so scarce. But what exactly from 1980-2000 is scarce even in hg?? Not a helluva lot. Mid to late 90s are probably the rarest. From 1980-1990? Truly nothing marvel/dc.

 

No question about it....CGC 9.8 is the standard for investment grade for the 80's and 90's. The rest isn't worth slabbing.

[Bosco685]

Just please get a better scanner.

 

When you posted those two Solar 10 CGC 9.6s in your last eBay sales, the cases looked completely scratched up.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Wow! So much negativity and hostility.

 

Where does it come from?

 

The 30 and 40's books were lost to the paper drives because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 40's and early 50's were barely bought because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 50's and 60's were thrown out because no one thought it was possible that the stuff being printed was anything other than pure junk and no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 70"s started selling what was previously thought to be junk in the 40's and 50's, but still threw out the books from the 60"s because no one thought they would ever be worth anything. The dealers in the 80's threw out the 70's books because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 90's continued to throw out the books from the 70's and added the 80's to the pile because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

Everyone wants those 70's books back.

 

And now the 80's are in.

 

Today dealers are throwing out the 90's (because they reflect the attitudes of the todays collectors) because no one thinks they will ever be worth anything.

 

Is it my imagination, or is there a pattern here???

 

Your pattern goes one step too far.

 

EVERYBODY thought 80's and 90's book would be worth something, which is why they saved them.

 

Come on, Dan, you're not stupid....but if I'm not mistaken, you have ONLY really dealt with Silver Age, and dabbled in Gold and Bronze for the last 20 years, and not dealt with late Bronze, Copper, or Moderns at all. Am I right?

 

If so, there are people around here who are much more familiar with those markets than you. It's a very, very tough place to be in. When you're talking about printruns in the millions for many early 90's books, owners could throw out 90% of these books and still have plenty to satisfy demand 10 times over in this market. You could literally throw out 99% of the entire print run of Turok #1, and still have enough copies (17,500) for every single collector who wants one. In fact, 17,500 would be a best selling Independent today.

 

I don't want to be the contrarian here, and I definetely would not want to disagree with so many who feel the 80's and 90's books are so worthless. (By the way...how many of you know that getting 9.8's on post glut 90s era books is actually not all that easy for two reasons....they didn't print that many (because no one thought they would ever be worth anything), and the paper is extremely fickle.)

 

The printruns weren't small because "no one thought they would ever be worth anything." The printruns were small because only readers were buying them brand new and the speculators who were buying 10, 100, 1000 copies were gone. The problem was, unlike the 40's, 50's, 60's, and to an extent the 70's, these books simply didn't have the audience that the former eras had.

 

That said, because of the "preserve everything in perfect condition mentality" of the people who still WERE collecting, more than enough of them got saved in high grade. If I were going to be paid $200 per, I could produce 10+ copies of just about everything from 1995-1999 (the "pre-CGC, post glut years) in 9.8 in about 6 months.

 

Look at one of the keys of the era: Hulk #8. There are 43 copies of this book in 9.8 on the census, and it is a LOW printed book. Thunderbolts #1 is also a good example. Of the 50 Universal copies on the census, 29 of them, or nearly 60%, are 9.8, with the rest scattered among VF to NM+.

 

The problem is not that these were low printed...it's that the vast majority of them were preserved in very, very high grade. The census will be top heavy on these books for decades, no matter what they are.

 

Ruins, Magneto Rex, JLA, Thunderbolts, you name it.

 

All of a sudden, I have this desire to run to my warehouse and see what else I can waste my money on.

 

I was tired earlier....But I now feel completely rejuvenated! What in the world is wrong with me??

 

Plus....I have no doubt that you secured a much, much better deal on getting these books slabbed, than the average Joe could off the street. That's just common sense.

 

No negativy, no hostility. Just an honest analysis.

 

[ShowcaseNE]

Wow! So much negativity and hostility.

 

Where does it come from?

 

The 30 and 40's books were lost to the paper drives because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 40's and early 50's were barely bought because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 50's and 60's were thrown out because no one thought it was possible that the stuff being printed was anything other than pure junk and no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 70"s started selling what was previously thought to be junk in the 40's and 50's, but still threw out the books from the 60"s because no one thought they would ever be worth anything. The dealers in the 80's threw out the 70's books because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 90's continued to throw out the books from the 70's and added the 80's to the pile because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

Everyone wants those 70's books back.

 

And now the 80's are in.

 

Today dealers are throwing out the 90's (because they reflect the attitudes of the todays collectors) because no one thinks they will ever be worth anything.

 

Is it my imagination, or is there a pattern here???

 

I don't want to be the contrarian here, and I definetely would not want to disagree with so many who feel the 80's and 90's books are so worthless. (By the way...how many of you know that getting 9.8's on post glut 90s era books is actually not all that easy for two reasons....they didn't print that many (because no one thought they would ever be worth anything), and the paper is extremely fickle.)

 

All of a sudden, I have this desire to run to my warehouse and see what else I can waste my money on.

 

I was tired earlier....But I now feel completely rejuvenated! What in the world is wrong with me??

 

 

 

 

 

 

I gotta disagree on this.

 

 

• NOTHING has been thrown out since the late 1960's. Dealers may blow these books out, bottom feeders may hoard them, they may sit in basements and storage spaces, but there is ALWAYS someone willing to take a gample if the price is right.
   
  
• I've been collecting since 1975. At no point in this time did dealers think SA was worthless. Some may have had disdain for anything not GA, but they all knew there was a market from it and were glad to sell it.
   
  
• I think it's safe to say that the last year has made it clear that BA prices, except for uber HG and keys, have been steadily falling. It's actually a little sad.
   
  
• My humble opinion--books from the late 1970's on will be common as dirt in 9.8. And if they aren't, they be pressed into plentiness.
   
  
• At no point from the late 1940's through the early 1990's was the numbers of collectors falling. Now it is declining precipitously. Even with the 20 year rule and nostaglia of collectors growing up in the 1980's, is there going to be the same demand that drove the rise in SA and BA values. Ever.
   
  

 

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

[ShowcaseNE]

Just please get a better scanner.

 

When you posted those two Solar 10 CGC 9.6s in your last eBay sales, the cases looked completely scratched up.

 

It's our scanner....our case are all flawless without exception. 99%) of our material comes straight from CGC.

[TupennyConan]

Have you been drinking tonight SNE?

[Mr 9.8]

What day do the auctions start Showcase?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think a very good LONG term play are Marvels from 1997-2001 in very high grade. You can pick them up, if you're patient, for next to nothing. Buy them, and put them away for 15 years. VERY low print runs for mainstream titles.

 

This is absolutely true, and I've been preaching this for years. This is especially true o "the dead years" 1999-2001. Printruns were ridiculously low, with the top selling books around the 100-120K mark for any given month.

 

Books like Wonder Woman and Flash were in the 30,000-50,000 range.

 

Astonishing numbers, compared to the rest of their history.

 

But, the census will still alwaybe top heavy on these books, and it really will take a renaissance for these books to amount to anything.

 

That said, I've been quietly buying them for about ten years now.

 

If I had to pick, I would say:

 

Amazing Spiderman #430-441, #1-30

X-Men #80-100

Uncanny X-Men #360-400

Batman #560-600

[RockMyAmadeus]

They were low print runs because nobody wanted them. I seriously doubt anyone will in 15 or 50 years.

 

The same thing was said about Hulk 181, Giants Size X-men 1 and X-men 94 when they started to go up in price.

 

Hulk #181, GS X-Men #1, and X-Men #94 did NOT have low print runs, NOR were they saved in uber high grade.

 

Moderns are the exact opposite.

 

You're comparing eras that are incomparable.

[RockMyAmadeus]

His is correct in that every generation thought the previous generation's books were not going to be worth much.

 

 

And you know what? Its kind of a fallacy that those generations were wrong. Clearly with respect to hg books they were... but hg emphasis is "relatively" new.

 

Point is with very very few exceptions you can buy anything 1960-1990 in vg for next to nothing.

 

hg copies turned that on its ear because they were so scarce. But what exactly from 1980-2000 is scarce even in hg?? Not a helluva lot. Mid to late 90s are probably the rarest. From 1980-1990? Truly nothing marvel/dc.

 

Exactly. Especially the highlighted part.

[500Club]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

[RockMyAmadeus]

His is correct in that every generation thought the previous generation's books were not going to be worth much.

 

 

And you know what? Its kind of a fallacy that those generations were wrong. Clearly with respect to hg books they were... but hg emphasis is "relatively" new.

 

Point is with very very few exceptions you can buy anything 1960-1990 in vg for next to nothing.

 

hg copies turned that on its ear because they were so scarce. But what exactly from 1980-2000 is scarce even in hg?? Not a helluva lot. Mid to late 90s are probably the rarest. From 1980-1990? Truly nothing marvel/dc.

 

No question about it....CGC 9.8 is the standard for investment grade for the 80's and 90's. The rest isn't worth slabbing.

 

That's not what he said.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

so in layman terms people who thought thier comics books were going up dollarwise,found out that thier comics are not worth as much because the us dollar has gone down in value.

 

[500Club]

The economics of collecting is a whole different issue than I have addressed.

 

If you want to focus on economics.....than no one should by any comic book, for any price (aside from the factors you mention) as they are in dollar denomintaed assets. The dollar is worth half of what it was in 2002. If your book(s) has doubled in price since than, inflation adjusted it is actually woth less (because you are not supposed to ignore the capital gains tax that you would pay on the inlated value of the book). Before taxes......comics have lost 20% of their value alone this year.

 

This a trend in the United States, in my opinion, that is permanent and structural in nature. For what it is worth, my professional background is in economics and finance (being an MBA, CPA and ex Wall Streeter)

 

But as I said...my focus this evening ignored the economics of collecting.

 

This statement is incorrect. The dollar, as compared to major international currencies, is worth half of what it was in '03. The dollar, in real dollar value adjusted for inflation, is NOT worth half of what it was worth in '03.

so in layman terms people who thought thier comics books were going up dollarwise,found out that thier comics are not worth as much because the us dollar has gone down in value.

 

No. Not unless you're selling the books to buy foreign currency denominated assets.

[ShowcaseNE]

Wow! So much negativity and hostility.

 

Where does it come from?

 

The 30 and 40's books were lost to the paper drives because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 40's and early 50's were barely bought because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The late 50's and 60's were thrown out because no one thought it was possible that the stuff being printed was anything other than pure junk and no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 70"s started selling what was previously thought to be junk in the 40's and 50's, but still threw out the books from the 60"s because no one thought they would ever be worth anything. The dealers in the 80's threw out the 70's books because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

The dealers in the 90's continued to throw out the books from the 70's and added the 80's to the pile because no one thought they would ever be worth anything.

 

Everyone wants those 70's books back.

 

And now the 80's are in.

 

Today dealers are throwing out the 90's (because they reflect the attitudes of the todays collectors) because no one thinks they will ever be worth anything.

 

Is it my imagination, or is there a pattern here???

 

Your pattern goes one step too far.

 

EVERYBODY thought 80's and 90's book would be worth something, which is why they saved them.

 

Come on, Dan, you're not stupid....but if I'm not mistaken, you have ONLY really dealt with Silver Age, and dabbled in Gold and Bronze for the last 20 years, and not dealt with late Bronze, Copper, or Moderns at all. Am I right?

 

If so, there are people around here who are much more familiar with those markets than you. It's a very, very tough place to be in. When you're talking about printruns in the millions for many early 90's books, owners could throw out 90% of these books and still have plenty to satisfy demand 10 times over in this market. You could literally throw out 99% of the entire print run of Turok #1, and still have enough copies (17,500) for every single collector who wants one. In fact, 17,500 would be a best selling Independent today.

 

I don't want to be the contrarian here, and I definetely would not want to disagree with so many who feel the 80's and 90's books are so worthless. (By the way...how many of you know that getting 9.8's on post glut 90s era books is actually not all that easy for two reasons....they didn't print that many (because no one thought they would ever be worth anything), and the paper is extremely fickle.)

 

The printruns weren't small because "no one thought they would ever be worth anything." The printruns were small because only readers were buying them brand new and the speculators who were buying 10, 100, 1000 copies were gone. The problem was, unlike the 40's, 50's, 60's, and to an extent the 70's, these books simply didn't have the audience that the former eras had.

 

That said, because of the "preserve everything in perfect condition mentality" of the people who still WERE collecting, more than enough of them got saved in high grade. If I were going to be paid $200 per, I could produce 10+ copies of just about everything from 1995-1999 (the "pre-CGC, post glut years) in 9.8 in about 6 months.

 

Look at one of the keys of the era: Hulk #8. There are 43 copies of this book in 9.8 on the census, and it is a LOW printed book. Thunderbolts #1 is also a good example. Of the 50 Universal copies on the census, 29 of them, or nearly 60%, are 9.8, with the rest scattered among VF to NM+.

 

The problem is not that these were low printed...it's that the vast majority of them were preserved in very, very high grade. The census will be top heavy on these books for decades, no matter what they are.

 

Ruins, Magneto Rex, JLA, Thunderbolts, you name it.

 

All of a sudden, I have this desire to run to my warehouse and see what else I can waste my money on.

 

I was tired earlier....But I now feel completely rejuvenated! What in the world is wrong with me??

 

Plus....I have no doubt that you secured a much, much better deal on getting these books slabbed, than the average Joe could off the street. That's just common sense.

 

No negativy, no hostility. Just an honest analysis.

 

You make some very good points.

 

Some books will always, and should be generally worthless. I have little doubt we would agree on the top ten; Spiderman 1, Turok 1, and on and on. However, I think the list of books that are collectible is much greater than the list of those that are not collectible.

 

Further, you are essentially making the point that these books will never appreciate in value the way, for example, a Spidy #1 might in the highest grades. I agree with you completely.

 

I think that at some point I would draw the line. There are more high grade copies of modern books than silver age books. True. But at the moment, compared to there silver age counterparts, they are relatively inexpensive. Supply and demand will play the role in deciding price over time.

 

I do think, however, that they are collectible at a certain price. Personally, I think the ten thousand (or whatever it is) or so that you would pay for a set of Spidy's in 9.8 from 200 to 441 will be worth more in the long run than the same amount of money spent on a single, early digit Spidy for the same price.

 

I have bought a lot of collections.....I think you would be amazed at just how few of them can be graded in the 9.8 range. There are a lot of NM modern collections out there. My experience, however, is that the majority of them are not worth buying because, while nm, they are just not nice enough.

 

As far as what we sell...I tend to try and let the market come to me.

 

We are no longer a major player in the high grade gold and silver market, and rightfully so. We still get them occasionally as pieces in larger collections.

 

I generally tell people that they should consign high grade books to Comic Link, when we get the phone calls, because they only charge ten percent as a commission. We can't (no dealer can) compete with this selling model. They seem to get the best prices for their consignments.....and in my opinion, are the most reputable of the choices out there.