Kansas City cgc 8.0 Action 1

[nearmint]

I also wouldn't attribute the success of The Dark Knight on Batman being so darn cool. That movie and its success was all about The Joker.

 

I was commenting on the appeal of Batman as a character.

 

Clark Kent is a (almost) snot nosed punk and Superman is a goody two shoes.

 

The fact that he's got a great costume, is the most powerful being on earth and is an alien is not good enough any more.

 

The guy with no powers and lots more character has taken the lead in popularity.

 

 

Lots more character? His parents were murdered and he's upset about it. They haven't explored much more about his character than that. Might as well be Frank Castle in a Batman costume.

[VintageComics]

I also wouldn't attribute the success of The Dark Knight on Batman being so darn cool. That movie and its success was all about The Joker.

 

I was commenting on the appeal of Batman as a character.

 

Clark Kent is a (almost) snot nosed punk and Superman is a goody two shoes.

 

The fact that he's got a great costume, is the most powerful being on earth and is an alien is not good enough any more.

 

The guy with no powers and lots more character has taken the lead in popularity.

 

 

Lots more character? His parents were murdered and he's upset about it. They haven't explored much more about his character than that. Might as well be Frank Castle in a Batman costume.

 

Hey, I've spent 40 years exploring my own psyche. I still don't know much about myself.

 

 

 

[buttock]

I also wouldn't attribute the success of The Dark Knight on Batman being so darn cool. That movie and its success was all about The Joker.

 

I was commenting on the appeal of Batman as a character.

 

Clark Kent is a (almost) snot nosed punk and Superman is a goody two shoes.

 

The fact that he's got a great costume, is the most powerful being on earth and is an alien is not good enough any more.

 

The guy with no powers and lots more character has taken the lead in popularity.

 

 

Lots more character? His parents were murdered and he's upset about it. They haven't explored much more about his character than that. Might as well be Frank Castle in a Batman costume.

 

Well Lego Batman on the Wii is like crack to my 5 year old. Argument over.

 

(but seriously, to kids Batman & Spidey are king. To pop culture, Supes probably has as much relevance as Batman, if not more.)

[fantastic_four]

rumor mill on OA forum, it probably was a rumor deal.

 

What does that mean?

 

they don't believe the deal went down.

 

Based upon what evidence?

 

my guess, instinct

 

Someone needs to flush the products of this instinct...they're stinking up the joint.

 

If they've got evidence, that's something else entirely.

[hockey&comicsguy]

It will be interesting to view the public's reaction to the next film, which will reportedly be darker, with involvement by Christopher Nolan.

 

Superman/Clark Kent are only as boring as the writers make him. The sole survivor of a doomed planet who may or may not fit in on Earth can be a complex, interesting character.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Supes. Got Smallville on my Tivo. I mean the guy has all the best powers. If you could have the powers of any superhero, who wouldn't pick supes?

 

But I think Roy is correct in saying the "ship has sailed" on the good natured, mild-mannered superhero type. I wasn't around for it but I would imagine that was a 50's thing. Now, it's got to be dark. People have to be able to relate. Now this is all relative of course, but who can relate to being Supes? I'm sure most can't relate to being a billionaire, playboy, crime fighter either. But the latter seems more realistic, especially considering that Bruce Wayne is, underneath everything, simply a man. Not a super powered, alien from a lost planet.

 

For the record I don't think any book will ever trump Action 1. Without getting into how many copies or whatever, hypothetically speaking, grade for grade Action 1 is likely to always trump Tec 27 or any other book.

 

But that's just in regards to vintage comic books. As far as pop culture (at least today), what's more relevant today (and for awhile now) and appears to have no end in sight is that Batman is king. Sure, another Supes movie may come out and hopefully it will be a 180 degree turn from the last krapfest. But, it won't be long before the gloss fades on whatever they turn out b/c the next Batman film will be coming out.

 

On a side note, my nephews love Legos. From what I gather Legos are hugely popular not just as building toys but as collectibles as well. Go walk through a toysrus and you'll see an endless shelf of Batman lego sets (and Star Wars for that matter). I don't think i've ever seen a Lego Superman set. Bats is everywhere. He's more prevalent today. He's #1 imo. Close #2 would be Spidey and in all likelihood he'll regain #1 status after another blockbuster film. And then Bats will trump again. It's going to take a lot of work to get Supes back to being the hero that young kids want to be. Batman is just cooler and based on the kids I see, what they dress up as, what they watch, they dig Batman more.

 

 

ps: I don't mean any of this to come of as gospel. Simply my opinion forged through observation.

[nearmint]

But I think Roy is correct in saying the "ship has sailed" on the good natured, mild-mannered superhero type. I wasn't around for it but I would imagine that was a 50's thing. Now, it's got to be dark. People have to be able to relate. Now this is all relative of course, but who can relate to being Supes? I'm sure most can't relate to being a billionaire, playboy, crime fighter either. But the latter seems more realistic, especially considering that Bruce Wayne is, underneath everything, simply a man. Not a super powered, alien from a lost planet.

 

I don't know that people can relate to being a 10-foot blue alien, but that didn't seem to hurt Avatar's business.

[VintageComics]

But I think Roy is correct in saying the "ship has sailed" on the good natured, mild-mannered superhero type. I wasn't around for it but I would imagine that was a 50's thing. Now, it's got to be dark. People have to be able to relate. Now this is all relative of course, but who can relate to being Supes? I'm sure most can't relate to being a billionaire, playboy, crime fighter either. But the latter seems more realistic, especially considering that Bruce Wayne is, underneath everything, simply a man. Not a super powered, alien from a lost planet.

 

I don't know that people can relate to being a 10-foot blue alien, but that didn't seem to hurt Avatar's business.

 

Jeff, the Avatar allowed for a real person to live within a fantasy body, so I can see the appeal. Almost like Captain Marvel and Billy Batson which we both know was a runaway smash hit in the 40's.

 

To make the last Superman movie appealing (or at least what Hollywood thought was appealing) they had to give Clark a child out of wedlock. So out of character for Supes.

 

There's a big difference between current cultural popularity and being a top pop culture icon.

 

Superman embodies everything that America was perceived to stand for in the 40's and 50's and maybe the 60's.

 

Now Batman does.

 

 

[hockey&comicsguy]

But I think Roy is correct in saying the "ship has sailed" on the good natured, mild-mannered superhero type. I wasn't around for it but I would imagine that was a 50's thing. Now, it's got to be dark. People have to be able to relate. Now this is all relative of course, but who can relate to being Supes? I'm sure most can't relate to being a billionaire, playboy, crime fighter either. But the latter seems more realistic, especially considering that Bruce Wayne is, underneath everything, simply a man. Not a super powered, alien from a lost planet.

 

I don't know that people can relate to being a 10-foot blue alien, but that didn't seem to hurt Avatar's business.

 

Yeah, and the Proclaimers had a popular hit song too. That's a snapshot in time. Avatar came and it's already gone. The DVD release will do well but that will be the end of it. It won't endure.

 

Batman and Supes are enduring. And the former just happens to be more relevant and more popular today. Maybe not with people who are 40 and up but as I said before, we aren't exactly the trend setters at this point in our lives.

 

Maybe it's sad to say, and i'm generalizing of course, but kids just don't think Superman is all that cool in comparison to Bats and Spidey. Kids fantasize about being Batman or Spidey. They probably liken Superman to their dad before they would themselves.

[nearmint]

To make the last Superman movie appealing (or at least what Hollywood thought was appealing) they had to give Clark a child out of wedlock. So out of character for Supes.

 

I always find it perplexing when people knock Superman Returns because Clark had a child out of wedlock, but no one knocks Superman II, where the child was actually conceived.

[hockey&comicsguy]

To make the last Superman movie appealing (or at least what Hollywood thought was appealing) they had to give Clark a child out of wedlock. So out of character for Supes.

 

I always find it perplexing when people knock Superman Returns because Clark had a child out of wedlock, but no one knocks Superman II, where the child was actually conceived.

 

I don't knock Superman returns for any specific plot line. I knock it because it sucked huge, giant monkey nutz.

[action1kid]

To make the last Superman movie appealing (or at least what Hollywood thought was appealing) they had to give Clark a child out of wedlock. So out of character for Supes.

 

I always find it perplexing when people knock Superman Returns because Clark had a child out of wedlock, but no one knocks Superman II, where the child was actually conceived.

 

I think your comparing a great movie[superman 2] to a sleeper[superman Returns] which has alot to do with Supermans 3rd place positioning in the standings of Super heros.

[VintageComics]

To make the last Superman movie appealing (or at least what Hollywood thought was appealing) they had to give Clark a child out of wedlock. So out of character for Supes.

 

I always find it perplexing when people knock Superman Returns because Clark had a child out of wedlock, but no one knocks Superman II, where the child was actually conceived.

 

I haven't seen that movie for what, 20 years? I don't even remember it.

 

I really like Superman. I'd prefer collecting runs of Action and Superman to Tec and Batman personally.

 

I just have a different opinion on the importance of Action #1.

 

 

[nearmint]

But I think Roy is correct in saying the "ship has sailed" on the good natured, mild-mannered superhero type. I wasn't around for it but I would imagine that was a 50's thing. Now, it's got to be dark. People have to be able to relate. Now this is all relative of course, but who can relate to being Supes? I'm sure most can't relate to being a billionaire, playboy, crime fighter either. But the latter seems more realistic, especially considering that Bruce Wayne is, underneath everything, simply a man. Not a super powered, alien from a lost planet.

 

I don't know that people can relate to being a 10-foot blue alien, but that didn't seem to hurt Avatar's business.

 

Jeff, the Avatar allowed for a real person to live within a fantasy body, so I can see the appeal. Almost like Captain Marvel and Billy Batson which we both know was a runaway smash hit in the 40's.

 

To make the last Superman movie appealing (or at least what Hollywood thought was appealing) they had to give Clark a child out of wedlock. So out of character for Supes.

 

There's a big difference between current cultural popularity and being a top pop culture icon.

 

Superman embodies everything that America was perceived to stand for in the 40's and 50's and maybe the 60's.

 

Now Batman does.

 

 

Batman embodies everything that America is perceived to stand for?

 

I think it's all about the writing and the performances. If Warner Brothers comes up with a great screenplay, the next Superman film can be just as successful as the Batman movies. We live in a world where The Big Bang Theory is a top 10 show, as it should be, but I don't think anyone would define those characters as "cool". It's just a very well written show with a cast of talented actors.

[fantastic_four]

I don't knock Superman returns for any specific plot line. I knock it because it sucked huge, giant monkey nutz.

 

I not only enjoyed it quite a lot, but it received largely positive critical reviews, scoring somewhere around 77% positive on Rotten Tomatoes. The action sequences were quite simply the best special effects we've seen featuring Superman to date, particularly the airplane rescue scene and the one where he's flying around Metropolis saving people from falling debris resulting from the earthquake caused by Lex Luthor. Much as is the case with the original Hulk movie, I don't get why everyone bashes these movies in retrospect, yet at the time of their release, they were well-received.

 

But completely separate from the overall appeal of the film itself, I don't get why fanboys like us can't look past all that and just get off on the action sequences. I own this film on BluRay, and when I pop it in the player, all I do is go straight to the action scenes. Isn't this what any guy should do? What exactly is WRONG with all you nancy-boys and your fru-fru obssessive desire for unparallelled writing, acting, and directing? Have you never actually read a comic book? They're almost NEVER written well, yet we remember them fondly because we love seeing heroes in action. All that should ultimately matter is that the action scenes ROCK!

[VintageComics]

You could be right and I've agreed with this sentiment many times.

 

I think a well written, well made Superman comic or movie could be a hit. Same with Captain Marvel for that matter.

 

 

 

 

[hockey&comicsguy]

But I think Roy is correct in saying the "ship has sailed" on the good natured, mild-mannered superhero type. I wasn't around for it but I would imagine that was a 50's thing. Now, it's got to be dark. People have to be able to relate. Now this is all relative of course, but who can relate to being Supes? I'm sure most can't relate to being a billionaire, playboy, crime fighter either. But the latter seems more realistic, especially considering that Bruce Wayne is, underneath everything, simply a man. Not a super powered, alien from a lost planet.

 

I don't know that people can relate to being a 10-foot blue alien, but that didn't seem to hurt Avatar's business.

 

Jeff, the Avatar allowed for a real person to live within a fantasy body, so I can see the appeal. Almost like Captain Marvel and Billy Batson which we both know was a runaway smash hit in the 40's.

 

To make the last Superman movie appealing (or at least what Hollywood thought was appealing) they had to give Clark a child out of wedlock. So out of character for Supes.

 

There's a big difference between current cultural popularity and being a top pop culture icon.

 

Superman embodies everything that America was perceived to stand for in the 40's and 50's and maybe the 60's.

 

Now Batman does.

 

 

Batman embodies everything that America is perceived to stand for?

 

I think it's all about the writing and the performances. If Warner Brothers comes up with a great screenplay, the next Superman film can be just as successful as the Batman movies. We live in a world where The Big Bang Theory is a top 10 show, as it should be, but I don't think anyone would define those characters as "cool". It's just a very well written show with a cast of talented actors.

 

 

No. But I also think that people don't really live their lives that way. This isn't the 40's and 50's. Superman was more popular during that time because he embodied that time. The innocence is over with.

 

Look at the films we have now. Look at Kick Azz. I don't see hollywood clamoring to make a super hero film pandering to the Boy Scouts of America.

 

Supes is a boyscout. That shyte was the rage in the 40's and 50's. The innocence is dead. People want their heroes to be as ed up and imperfect as they are. More importantly, kids and teens think Batman is cooler and they set the tone for what's hip. It just ain't hip to be Mr. Squeaky Clean right now.

 

Yes, a great film will do wonders for that franchise. But I don't see any Supes film in the next 10 years doing enough to trump the unstoppable force that is all things Batman.

[action1kid]

I think one of the signs of a dreary movie is skipping most of it just to see the Action scenes.

[fantastic_four]

I think one of the signs of a dreary movie is skipping most of it just to see the Action scenes.

 

When I started collecting comic books as a kid, I had a word to describe people who didn't skip panels to get to the fight scenes--girls.

[hockey&comicsguy]

I don't knock Superman returns for any specific plot line. I knock it because it sucked huge, giant monkey nutz.

 

I not only enjoyed it quite a lot, but it received largely positive critical reviews, scoring somewhere around 77% positive on Rotten Tomatoes. The action sequences were quite simply the best special effects we've seen featuring Superman to date, particularly the airplane rescue scene and the one where he's flying around Metropolis saving people from falling debris resulting from the earthquake caused by Lex Luthor. Much as is the case with the original Hulk movie, I don't get why everyone bashes these movies in retrospect, yet at the time of their release, they were well-received.

 

But completely separate from the overall appeal of the film itself, I don't get why fanboys like us can't look past all that and just get off on the action sequences. I own this film on BluRay, and when I pop it in the player, all I do is go straight to the action scenes. Isn't this what any guy should do? What exactly is WRONG with all you nancy-boys and your fru-fru obssessive desire for unparallelled writing, acting, and directing? Have you never actually read a comic book? They're almost NEVER written well, yet we remember them fondly because we love seeing heroes in action. All that should ultimately matter is that the action scenes ROCK!

 

 

I didn't like the casting. I found the people themselves to be unbelievable. C'mon, Kate Bosworth? Really? She was great and great to look at in Blue Crush. That I can believe. As Lois Lane? Ughh..... Kevin Spacey, who I think is a great actor seemed more like a caricature of Lex Luthor than the real deal. Routh? He looked the part and I think he was actually pretty good.

 

I just didn't think it was that great a film. Both Batman movies = great. Iron Man = great. Fantastic Four, Daredevil, etc....= shyte. Supes Returns was far closer to being shyte than it was to being great.

 

It just wasn't that good. Yes, the action scenes were good. But if action scenes made for a good movie, then Transformers 2 would be watchable more than once. As it stands, I kind of think of Supes Returns like a porno film. You fast forward through all the dialogue and only watch the "action" scenes.

[VintageComics]

Supes is a boyscout. That shyte was the rage in the 40's and 50's. The innocence is dead. People want their heroes to be as ed up and imperfect as they are. More importantly, kids and teens think Batman is cooler and they set the tone for what's hip. It just ain't hip to be Mr. Squeaky Clean right now.

 

Well put.

 

Just to try to be a bit more clear, my embodiment statement was more about attitude than it was about the way people actually are.