I recently purchased a CGG graded comic....and guess what?

[jkrk]

Your case for a return should rest on the fact that the seller did not indicate he will not accept returns and it could be argued that the scan was a bit small and the cut couldn't be spotted.

The sellers case for not refunding your money should rest on his sending the book to a third party grader. He is not the grader and the book is sent to an outside grader to avoid a disagreement in the structure of the book. You knew the grading source when you purchased the book. Would you have asked for your money back if the book looked like a NM-? VF/NM? You might have bought the book at a "discount" as the book was not graded bt CGC. The final purchase price reflects CGG as the grader. You knew what you were buying.

If I was the seller I would only offer you the right to return the book if CGC indicates that the book was trimmed.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

Why is everyone playing "be nice to CGG". or is that most of you mistakenly think it's a CGC book?

 

Greggy posted some pretty compelling evidence on the VF bettyswalls copies that were sent in to CGG and received NM grades... and had slightly "different" edges, so why is this potential case being swept under the carpet?

 

J_C, I believe that the reason for this is because the evidence is not very compelling. The reasons he listed for suspicion of trimming is very common to many bronze age books as miscuts during the printing process. What he is describing seems more like a bad printing job than trimming. Making a more definitive judgement requires more evidence in this case.

 

Although the evidence that Greggy put forth was compelling, this situation is not entirely the same.

[joe_collector]

Although the evidence that Greggy put forth was compelling, this situation is not entirely the same.

 

Hey, I'm not disagreeing, just very surprised. There are some members who will slam CGG literally at the drop of a hat.

[BassGMan]

 

Hey, I'm not disagreeing, just very surprised. There are some members who will slam CGG literally at the drop of a hat.

 

Back to the ol' CGC/CGG debate again huh? Well, I for one like both services. Of course I prefer CGC overall, but for speed and cost CGG provides me with an overall better service for pre '75 books at $14 a pop in three weeks rather than $29 and three months for CGC. For Moderns? I'll stick with CGC. If anyone has a problem with CGG not catching hard to see restoration in the past? Hey dudes, they advertsied very clearly on their website that they will not grade restored books (although they do now). So if someone sent in a restored book during that time, and CGG didn't realize it, graded and slabbed it, then is it their fault? I say no. It is the submitters fault for assuming that it was clean, or maybe even trying to get away with getting a restored book graded and unmarked as a restored book. But, back to this case. It seems as if the consensus is at least assuming that this book was miscut at the printing press. I just hope this dealer apologizes to the seller once that he realizes this. -----Sid

[Illiterati-migration]

Why is everyone playing "be nice to CGG". or is that most of you mistakenly think it's a CGC book?

 

Because we're civil, polite people, not a rude, arrogantly presumptious arsehole like yourself.

 

I was thinking it was because this was blatant pandering from MW1 to win the favor of the board by bashing The Enemy?

[MW1]

Khaos,

 

I didn't realize that someone was the "enemy." As I recall in a previous thread, I was one of the few who was actually lending support to the strength of CGG sales.

 

FYI, I have not yet sent an email to the seller requesting a refund or threatening a negative. Basically, that's the reason that I posted here. I wanted to get some opinions and analysis first. Being that what I have described may very well be part of the normal cutting and production process, I should probably disclose that there are other problems as well including very unusual "cutting marks" and places where the exposed cross section appears to be whiter. Also, I do not know if this is significant, but the shape of the comic is more like a trapezoid than a rectangle.

 

I will post some images later this evening so that others can see what I'm describing and correct me if I'm mistaken in my judgment.

[FlyingDonut]

I don't think you can slam the seller for it - by buying a CGG book, you implicitly agreed to their grading. He didn't put in his auction "no returns on CGG books", so he should take it back, but I can very easily see him saying no - he didn't grade the book, the third party did. Your complaint is with CGG, not with your seller.

[garthgantu]

Your complaint is with CGG, not with your seller.

 

I think that sums it up - IF there's a problem with this book at all...

[MW1]

Images of comic

 

[*] Top edge, front

[*] Top edge, reverse

[*] Bottom edge, front

[*] Bottom edge, reverse

[*] Bottom edge, reverse, middle

[*] Bottom edge, reverse, LR corner

[*] Bottom edge, front, LR corner

[*] Top edge, front, UL corner

[*] Bottom edge, reverse, LL corner

 

I think the issue of comic restoration raises an interesting question -- does a seller suddenly forego all responsibility for the merchandise he or she sells just because it has been graded? In my opinion, no.

[joe_collector]

Is this some comic book puzzle where we have to put all the pieces together?

 

If you could give us an entire, high-rez image it would be most helpful.

[MW1]

Is this some comic book puzzle where we have to put all the pieces together?

 

If you could give us an entire, high-rez image it would be most helpful.

Coming up.

[MW1]

High-res scan of comic

[Rocketeer]

Ummmm,...I'm not diggin that bottom edge...

[Smokinghawk]

Ummmm,...I'm not diggin that bottom edge...

 

Yeah, I have a REAL concern about that, too. And that ragged edge on the back is very similar to tool marks I've seen when cutting a stack of paper in a table-top slicer. Plus, aren't books trimmed at the bindery as a completed whole, meaning that even if the cut is angled, the WHOLE book is cut that way, not just the cover? That diagonal on the bottom cover thast leaves a portion of the interior extended past the edge (and cut straight, might I add), is curious. If I'm wrong about the bindery process, my comments are null and void, of course.

 

At the very least, it's quite unusual for CGG to grade a book like this as a 9.anything, given that my sweetest right-off-the-rack modern stuff I pegged as a 9.4 or 9.2 has come back as 9.2 in the past. Grading-wise, it seems like CGG is too strict for modern high-grades and lenient for silver/bronze upper-mid grades.

[joe_collector]

Now without the book in hand, it's tough to tell for sure, but here's my theory:

 

The book in question MAY have been disassembled, the cover MAY have been trimmed and then the book MAY have been put back together.

 

The cover shows definite signs of trimming, and the looseness of the internal pages and the outward tightness of the staples suggests that these may have been removed and then re-inserted slightly less-than snug.

[MW1]

I also had a real problem with this.

[joe_collector]

I also had a real problem with this.

 

[FFB]

I think this book raises enough questions for you to send it to Matt N. or to CGC for a restoration check. You got the book cheaply enough (when compared to the price a CGC-graded copy would have sold for) so that even with the resto detection fee and a re-grading fee for CGC, you'll still come out ahead on the book if it's clean. If it were my book, I'd spend the $30-60 to get a professional opinion.

 

Is this some comic book puzzle where we have to put all the pieces together?

 

If you could give us an entire, high-rez image it would be most helpful.

Coming up.

[DiceX]

I agree. But even so, I don't think the seller would deserve a neg for it.

CGG graded it.

[blowout]

Based on the scans you just posted the book looks trimmed to me. Those edges certainly don't fall into any of the obvious 'production defects' that Marvel books from the 70's tend to suffer from.

I would give CGG a call and ask them for the grading notes and their assesment of the book, followed by a trip to a pro-restorer for a second opinion resto check. But to me, it doesn't look at all good.