Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 71 71

[lightninglad]

What in the hell is going on with Man of Steel #17??

 

Did the market suddenly decide they prefer that to #18?

 

Or are the market buyers too dumb to know the difference.

 

Apparently so.

 

I have a few 18's and actually pulled a few 17's the other day out of my LCS's dollar bins. Am I missing something? :shrug:

 

From day one MoS #17 has always been the more valuable book due to its much lower print run. Nothing has really changed. You can check the recent debates on the issue:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6818071#Post6818071

 

 

Yes. We all participated in that debate. Perhaps you should take a moment and actually read the the thread.

 

I've read it in it's entirety and while it certainly addresses what is a cameo and what is a full appearance it does not address why #17 sells for more money then 18 and has for some time So, I'll re-post what i wrote in the Coppers Heating up discussion :

 

"Everybody knew a big story was starting with MoS 18, I'm sure retailers ordered accordingly, but the cameo books completely took people by surprise. When people finally caught on to who it was in those cameos shots, those books quickly disappeared, with MoS 17 being the one highly sought after. It immediately jumped to be $15-$20 book. I can't give you the numbers, but you could find tons of MoS 18's but MoS 17's were very hard to come by. IMO MoS 17 from the very start has always been the more valuable book.

 

I know we like to place rules on these types of things but I think each case is unique. In this case, the cameo is harder to find. Plus MoS 18 isn't really much of a first appearance. He's hidden in a suit the entire issue. If you were to show the average person who knew what Doomsday looks like, but knew nothing about comics, the cover to MoS 18 they'd say... "That's not Doomsday!"

 

So call the issues whatever you like but at the end of day I think 17 is and always will be the more valuable of the two, though 18 will close the gap some. There is room for both to be worth owning. It doesn't have to be a war of one against the other. \:\)

 

I have Diamond sales rankings but no print run numbers:

 

September 1992 MoS 17 was #97 on their sales chart. All Superman titles were low. Adventures didn't even make top 100.

 

October 1992 MoS 18 moves up to #77.

 

November 1992 MoS 19 jumps way up to #19

 

It's not quite as big of a difference between 17 and 18 as I would of thought, but def shows 17 was a lower print run. I also wonder if more newsstand copies of 18 survived. MoS 17's may have been pulled by the time people caught on to the whole Superman's being killed thing."

 

It doesn't definitely show a lower print run. I just picked a book at random and came up with this.

 

Daredevil 32 was #73 on comichron October sales with 34,957 copies

Daredevil 33 was #62 on comichron November sales with 32,966 copies.

 

Placement on the chart is not necessarily a good guesstimator for actual sales. The #19 I think is a more likely to be a valid measuring point.

 

The market has proven that #17 has a lower print run. We all agree that #17 is a cameo, a la Hulk 180, Amazing 298 299, X-Factor 5 ,etc. Why then does #17 routinely sell for as much or more than #18 if not for the fact the it's in shorter supply

 

The Death of Superman is one of the story-lines that really got me into collecting comics as a kid. I've collected these issues for 20 years and 17 has always been much harder to find. For example this past year I've check every major online retailer multiple times a week trying to find copies of 17 and 18 on the cheap. As recent as the last few weeks MCS has had copies of 18 in NM for $5 and VF for $4. Mile High as had then for less than $10. CCL used to have scores of #18 for well under cover price. You know how many copies of 17 I've find cheap during that time? Zero. You rarely find it for sale at all other than Ebay.

 

I think the market speaks for itself. But I guess time will tell.

 

Not trying to argue. Both issues are close to my heart.

[lightninglad]

Plus MoS 18 isn't really much of a first appearance. He's hidden in a suit the entire issue. If you were to show the average person who knew what Doomsday looks like, but knew nothing about comics, the cover to MoS 18 they'd say... "That's not Doomsday!"

 

Definitely "isn't much of a first appearance" . . .

 

 

 

Show me an issue other than #18 where Doomsday looks like that cover image? I sometimes wonder if you guys even know what Doomsday looks like

Edited January 5, 2014 by lightninglad

[slym2none]

what remains undisputed is one, that there are huge number of both issues, and neither of them are difficult to locate, and two, the #17 is a cameo, and #18 is a full first appearance.

 

So, #18 is the second appearance.

 

(thumbs u

 

Actually, is that even true? Didn't all 4 of the Superman titles that month have a "cameo" of Doomsday on the very back page?

 

 

 

 

-slym

Edited January 5, 2014 by slym2none

[the authority]

What in the hell is going on with Man of Steel #17??

 

Did the market suddenly decide they prefer that to #18?

 

Or are the market buyers too dumb to know the difference.

 

Apparently so.

 

I have a few 18's and actually pulled a few 17's the other day out of my LCS's dollar bins. Am I missing something? :shrug:

 

From day one MoS #17 has always been the more valuable book due to its much lower print run. Nothing has really changed. You can check the recent debates on the issue:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6818071#Post6818071

 

 

Yes. We all participated in that debate. Perhaps you should take a moment and actually read the the thread.

 

I've read it in it's entirety and while it certainly addresses what is a cameo and what is a full appearance it does not address why #17 sells for more money then 18 and has for some time So, I'll re-post what i wrote in the Coppers Heating up discussion :

 

"Everybody knew a big story was starting with MoS 18, I'm sure retailers ordered accordingly, but the cameo books completely took people by surprise. When people finally caught on to who it was in those cameos shots, those books quickly disappeared, with MoS 17 being the one highly sought after. It immediately jumped to be $15-$20 book. I can't give you the numbers, but you could find tons of MoS 18's but MoS 17's were very hard to come by. IMO MoS 17 from the very start has always been the more valuable book.

 

I know we like to place rules on these types of things but I think each case is unique. In this case, the cameo is harder to find. Plus MoS 18 isn't really much of a first appearance. He's hidden in a suit the entire issue. If you were to show the average person who knew what Doomsday looks like, but knew nothing about comics, the cover to MoS 18 they'd say... "That's not Doomsday!"

 

So call the issues whatever you like but at the end of day I think 17 is and always will be the more valuable of the two, though 18 will close the gap some. There is room for both to be worth owning. It doesn't have to be a war of one against the other. \:\)

 

I have Diamond sales rankings but no print run numbers:

 

September 1992 MoS 17 was #97 on their sales chart. All Superman titles were low. Adventures didn't even make top 100.

 

October 1992 MoS 18 moves up to #77.

 

November 1992 MoS 19 jumps way up to #19

 

It's not quite as big of a difference between 17 and 18 as I would of thought, but def shows 17 was a lower print run. I also wonder if more newsstand copies of 18 survived. MoS 17's may have been pulled by the time people caught on to the whole Superman's being killed thing."

 

It doesn't definitely show a lower print run. I just picked a book at random and came up with this.

 

Daredevil 32 was #73 on comichron October sales with 34,957 copies

Daredevil 33 was #62 on comichron November sales with 32,966 copies.

 

Placement on the chart is not necessarily a good guesstimator for actual sales. The #19 I think is a more likely to be a valid measuring point.

 

The market has proven that #17 has a lower print run. We all agree that #17 is a cameo, a la Hulk 180, Amazing 298 299, X-Factor 5 ,etc. Why then does #17 routinely sell for as much or more than #18 if not for the fact the it's in shorter supply

 

The Death of Superman is one of the story-lines that really got me into collecting comics as a kid. I've collected these issues for 20 years and 17 has always been much harder to find. For example this past year I've check every major online retailer multiple times a week trying to find copies of 17 and 18 on the cheap. As recent as the last few weeks MCS has had copies of 18 in NM for $5 and VF for $4. Mile High as had then for less than $10. CCL used to have scores of #18 for well under cover price. You know how many copies of 17 I've find cheap during that time? Zero. You rarely find it for sale at all other than Ebay.

 

I think the market speaks for itself. But I guess time will tell.

 

Not trying to argue. Both issues are close to my heart.

 

I'm with you and definitely not looking for an argument either. I was giving my perception and what little wisdom I have to offer on the books and nothing more. I've been reading and collecting for about 40 years and have experienced this with IH #180 and IH #181. I don't think a lot of people realize that the cameo used to cost more than the full appearance. It gradually changed, though I can't recall when, and #181 became the big dog. You will still find more #181 issues available and sold than #180. Either way, I wish you good luck with them. (thumbs u

Edited January 5, 2014 by The Authority

[divad]

The market has proven that #17 has a lower print run.

 

Actually that's not what it's proven at all. What all of the foregoing simply confirms is that #17 was the issue to appreciate (in value) early on. With only a minimum of thoughtful analysis, those that know and care have consequently determined that was done rather hastily, and in error.

[divad]

Show me an issue other than #18 where Doomsday looks like that cover image? I sometimes wonder if you guys even know what Doomsday looks like

 

And Wolverine hasn't changed a bit . . .

[divad]

I'm with you and definitely not looking for an argument either. I was giving my perception and what little wisdom I have to offer on the books and nothing more. I've been reading and collecting for about 40 years and have experienced this with IH #180 and IH #181. I don't think a lot of people realize that the cameo used to cost more than the full appearance. It gradually changed, though I can't recall when, and #181 became the big dog. You will still find more #181 issues available and sold than #180. Either way, I wish you good luck with them. (thumbs u

 

(thumbs u It's lively discussion, not an argument. Kudos to all.

[lightninglad]

what remains undisputed is one, that there are huge number of both issues, and neither of them are difficult to locate, and two, the #17 is a cameo, and #18 is a full first appearance.

 

So, #18 is the second appearance.

 

(thumbs u

 

Actually, is that even true? Didn't all 4 of the Superman titles that month have a "cameo" of Doomsday on the very back page?

 

 

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

That's correct. MoS #18 would be his fifth appearance. In honor of that, they had five printings.

Edited January 5, 2014 by lightninglad

[500Club]

Also despite the high number of copies of these books, their availability to the market is somewhat depressed because a great many of them are just sitting in attics and basements of people who again are not comic collectors, or never were, and thus are never put up for sale. They just sit until they get thrown out. Or the owner attempts to pawn them off on an LCS who blindly catergorizes all of the books the owner brings in as 90s drek and doesn't bother to purchase them as back issue stock.

 

This point can not be understated. This is the concept of relative supply, which is the actual number of books available to be bought/sold. The reasons you note depress this supply of these books.

 

Of course, if and when prices rise, that tends to squeeze more copies into circulation.

[slym2none]

what remains undisputed is one, that there are huge number of both issues, and neither of them are difficult to locate, and two, the #17 is a cameo, and #18 is a full first appearance.

 

So, #18 is the second appearance.

 

(thumbs u

 

Actually, is that even true? Didn't all 4 of the Superman titles that month have a "cameo" of Doomsday on the very back page?

 

 

That's correct. MoS #18 would be his fifth appearance. In honor of that, they had five printings.

 

OK, this is one of those rare times I can get behind the terms "first cameo appearance" and "first full appearance."

 

My bad, apologies for any confusion I caused by my comments here, and duly noted!

 

Carry on then!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Jimmy Linguini]

when did the 90's speculative boom begin?

 

well, we can probably say somewhere between November or December of 1992 - thats why Man of Steel 17 has 1 printing and Man of Steel 18 has 5.

[darkstar]

17 has two printings

[500Club]

when did the 90's speculative boom begin?

 

well, we can probably say somewhere between November or December of 1992 - thats why Man of Steel 17 has 1 printing and Man of Steel 18 has 5.

You are at least 2 years late on that.

 

McSpidey 1 was Aug 1990, and even then, the pot had already started to bubble over.

[Taco]

Why do we have a copper age board?

[Jimmy Linguini]

17 has two printings

 

Oh.

[the authority]

 

[VEI Reborn]

Why do we have a copper age board?

 

 

 

(thumbs u

[ion comics]

And try finding a 2nd print of that one. Never even seen one before in the wild.

 

Meck

[rjrjr]

Why do we have a copper age board?

 

[longshot975]

uhm i think i have the second print or know where it is if i dont