Action #1 listed on C-link

[bluechip]

Mr. S pays record price for restored comic book, that is the true headline.

 

Here is my take

 

 

The person who spends as much money as a minimum wage worker who lworks 15,000 hours and that does not even count taxs and social security so add

A couple more thousand hours to that total on a restored comic book is clearly a speculator who has visions of millions of dolllars in his or here pockets.

 

It is my opinion that you, mr speculator ,you have just bitten yourself in the asssssd on this one. If you get luckily to find somebody looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and remember a sucker is born every miniute, for 100k or 120 k then head to the hills with your restored tail between your speculator legs. I do not buy the story going around that you had a emergency and had to take your doggie to the pet hospital.

We encountered your kind years ago when you pumped up the market on one million spiderman 1's. A true comic book collector holds and a speculator sells when the wind changes direction.

 

Mr speculator, yes money is to be made by collectors holding books and enjoying them. But your kind is the worst

 

I could present very good arguments for why restored comics and mid-grade and low-grade comics of key issues are the best investment in the field, but more to the point I could present very good arguments for how many items that you tout are worthless and have been irrationally riding the coattails of the value of the books that everybody outside the hobby finds interesting.

 

But that would be unfair to other collectors.

 

You are being worse than unfair to other collectors. You're not just saying what you like or don't you like. You're openly and constantly attacking the financial value of what they hold. You're saying these things here, and trying to get quoted in the press, so that you can reach people outside the hobby and cause them to avoid books they would be perfectly happy having -- because you don't own them,

 

I don't know if it rises to the level of tortious interference, but it is clearly wilfull and clearly designed to do financial harm

 

[Mr. 10%]

Mr. S pays record price for restored comic book, that is the true headline.

 

Here is my take

 

 

The person who spends as much money as a minimum wage worker who lworks 15,000 hours and that does not even count taxs and social security so add

A couple more thousand hours to that total on a restored comic book is clearly a speculator who has visions of millions of dolllars in his or here pockets.

 

It is my opinion that you, mr speculator ,you have just bitten yourself in the asssssd on this one. If you get luckily to find somebody looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and remember a sucker is born every miniute, for 100k or 120 k then head to the hills with your restored tail between your speculator legs. I do not buy the story going around that you had a emergency and had to take your doggie to the pet hospital.

We encountered your kind years ago when you pumped up the market on one million spiderman 1's. A true comic book collector holds and a speculator sells when the wind changes direction.

 

Mr speculator, yes money is to be made by collectors holding books and enjoying them. But your kind is the worst

 

And so it begins (again). Endless Brown Holder posting

[bluechip]

Mr. S pays record price for restored comic book, that is the true headline.

 

Here is my take

 

 

The person who spends as much money as a minimum wage worker who lworks 15,000 hours and that does not even count taxs and social security so add

A couple more thousand hours to that total on a restored comic book is clearly a speculator who has visions of millions of dolllars in his or here pockets.

 

It is my opinion that you, mr speculator ,you have just bitten yourself in the asssssd on this one. If you get luckily to find somebody looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and remember a sucker is born every miniute, for 100k or 120 k then head to the hills with your restored tail between your speculator legs. I do not buy the story going around that you had a emergency and had to take your doggie to the pet hospital.

We encountered your kind years ago when you pumped up the market on one million spiderman 1's. A true comic book collector holds and a speculator sells when the wind changes direction.

 

Mr speculator, yes money is to be made by collectors holding books and enjoying them. But your kind is the worst

 

And so it begins (again). Endless Brown Holder posting

 

If I was the guy selling the book in question, I would ask my lawyer to give mitchy a call. And then if he kept it up I would ask a couple of large people to speak to him. His behavior bears no resemblance whatever to good intentions

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

I've met Mitch. His posts are pure poo poo.

 

Potty training takes time and patience.

 

So, Richard, what are your impressions of the man you actually met?

 

Don't hold back now.

 

Remember, I've met you too; you're nothing like your snarky board personae.

My impression...

I thought he was distracted and that he had more important things to do then have a conversation with me. He asked me a question and then split before hearing the answer. It was San Diego. I understand there are a lot of distractions at the show so no big deal. And I'm probably pretty boring in person anyway. Other than that, he was clean, shaven, and didn't smell.

 

That may have been my fault.

 

I know that I walked up and introduced myself to Mitch while he was visiting with you and Gator. In the course of that brief conversation I seem to recall dragging him off to meet Verzyl. (see circumstantial evidence below)

 

 

I apologize here and now for that if this was the case, because that interruption was unintentionally rude.

 

Listen, I have no problem with the investment inanities of a majority of Mitch's posts. What I have a problem with is the attitude that one collector is more valid than another simply because of the books he possesses. That is pure B.S. There are so many folks on here who have a genuine passion for the art-form, the medium of comic books, who for whatever reason don't own expensive high grade key books. That does not make their opinion any less valid. Based on Mitch's posts he would on Scrooge's books. But Scrooge has a love for collecting that Mitch will never have. Or what about Boot. Mitch would turn and run from Boot's esoteric accumulation of comic weirdness. But Boot has an appreciation which Mitch could never comprehend. Take it a step further and think of all the folks who have posted one single golden age comic in this forum, their first or only old comic. There is no more prized thing than the first old comic of a collector. So when Mitch says,

I can wipe my ASSSS with your comic book collection

I take exception to that. Mitch can use his own comics to wipe his if he wants to. But the rest of us love our comics too much to use them for wiping.

 

Rich, I can't argue with anything you've said, but I doubt that Mitch meant what he said about wiping his ASSSS with someone's comic collection and wishes retrospectively that he could take that obviously insensitive comment back. I'd have to go back through that thread, but it wouldn't surprise me if there is more to this than Mitch's remark. It doesn't excuse making such a comment, but I have trouble believing that an outburst like that occurred in a vacuum.

 

Peace bro, and next time you're in the Metroplex maybe we can get together here for some beers and maybe a poker game. (thumbs u

[Aman619]

is that Mitch with the long hair?

[Transplant]

Rich, I can't argue with anything you've said, but I doubt that Mitch meant what he said about wiping his ASSSS with someone's comic collection and wishes retrospectively that he could take that obviously insensitive comment back.

I bet he does. There's a concept in law called the excited utterance exception to the heresay rule. I'm sure Mr. Ticket is familiar with it. Basically, if a statement is made in a very excited manner without time to think about it, it's more likely to be true. It appears to be a clearer view of how MM views other's collecting habits.

[DrWatson]

is that Mitch with the long hair?

No, that's David Fairygodmother.

[Cat-Man_America]

is that Mitch with the long hair?

 

 

 

 

No, Mitch is listening to Rich. My wife took this shot just before I introduced myself; that's me (the hair loom) in the foreground.

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

is that Mitch with the long hair?

No, that's David Fairygodmother.

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

Rich, I can't argue with anything you've said, but I doubt that Mitch meant what he said about wiping his ASSSS with someone's comic collection and wishes retrospectively that he could take that obviously insensitive comment back.

I bet he does. There's a concept in law called the excited utterance exception to the heresay rule. I'm sure Mr. Ticket is familiar with it. Basically, if a statement is made in a very excited manner without time to think about it, it's more likely to be true. It appears to be a clearer view of how MM views other's collecting habits.

 

I'm not sure how an excited utterance applies to the internet. This sounds more like a straw man argument. Hey, Straw-Man, we need your POV!

[Transplant]

I'm not sure you want Straw-Man's POV on this. He talks funny anyway.

[Aman619]

is that Mitch with the long hair?

 

 

 

 

No, Mitch is listening to Rich. My wife took this shot just before I introduced myself; that's me (the hair loom) in the foreground.

 

 

thanx, he looks so different from his website mugshot image.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I've met Mitch. His posts are pure poo poo.

 

Potty training takes time and patience.

 

So, Richard, what are your impressions of the man you actually met?

 

Don't hold back now.

 

Remember, I've met you too; you're nothing like your snarky board personae.

My impression...

I thought he was distracted and that he had more important things to do then have a conversation with me. He asked me a question and then split before hearing the answer. It was San Diego. I understand there are a lot of distractions at the show so no big deal. And I'm probably pretty boring in person anyway. Other than that, he was clean, shaven, and didn't smell.

 

Listen, I have no problem with the investment inanities of a majority of Mitch's posts. What I have a problem with is the attitude that one collector is more valid than another simply because of the books he possesses. That is pure B.S. There are so many folks on here who have a genuine passion for the art-form, the medium of comic books, who for whatever reason don't own expensive high grade key books. That does not make their opinion any less valid. Based on Mitch's posts he would on Scrooge's books. But Scrooge has a love for collecting that Mitch will never have. Or what about Boot. Mitch would turn and run from Boot's esoteric accumulation of comic weirdness. But Boot has an appreciation which Mitch could never comprehend. Take it a step further and think of all the folks who have posted one single golden age comic in this forum, their first or only old comic. There is no more prized thing than the first old comic of a collector. So when Mitch says,

I can wipe my ASSSS with your comic book collection

I take exception to that. Mitch can use his own comics to wipe his if he wants to. But the rest of us love our comics too much to use them for wiping.

 

Richard perhaps he was distracted by your "wall of gold" but didn't see an unrestored Action #1 and therefore deemed you unworthy. Although that was in 2011 so nix that. Maybe he was in the land of chocolate as you were speaking.

[lou_fine]

I can understand board members here who have bought into the restored comic book is ok theory . Spending a couple of hundred dollars to fill in a collection hole is fine by me. Spending $ 150,000.00 is another thing all together. I suspect the S word is at work here

 

Actually, most of the general public would agree with Mitch's comments, with only a slight difference:

 

"I can understand people buying into the comic books is an investment theory. Spending a few dollars on a comic book in the hopes of making some money is fine by me. Spending a couple of million dollars is another thing altogether. I suspect the double S word must be at work here (as in absolute silliness and stupidity)."

[mt1000]

I can understand board members here who have bought into the restored comic book is ok theory . Spending a couple of hundred dollars to fill in a collection hole is fine by me. Spending $ 150,000.00 is another thing all together. I suspect the S word is at work here

 

Actually, most of the general public would agree with Mitch's comments, with only a slight difference:

 

"I can understand people buying into the comic books is an investment theory. Spending a few dollars on a comic book in the hopes of making some money is fine by me. Spending a couple of million dollars is another thing altogether. I suspect the double S word must be at work here (as in absolute silliness and stupidity)."

 

Maybe off topic, but in a way when MM says the Action 1 resto isnt worth 150K, well like my father always told me when i was younger when i would say "this is worth this and that is worth that" he would say its only worth what someone will pay not what some book says. So therefore if someone bought it for 150K and if he sells if for that or something close then id say thats what its worth.

[Mmehdy]

It is more frustration than anger. I am in this for life, I believe that comic collectors need to do that-collect comics and price yes is part collecting life. I do not know who bought this book, but my concern is long term stability in our comic book world.

 

Things are going great now. We need to draw the line as to what really is acceptable and valuable down the collecting road for the next 20 years.

 

Somebody needs to take a stand and not let things just go on with so much confusion and anger.we need to stick together as we are in the same boat.

 

This action comics #1 is good comic book for the record, its just nowhere near a $150,000.00 comic book, and if it really is...we are in trouble

[Scrooge]

Why in trouble. Didn't you just say that only unrestored copy should be worth something. If a restored copy can fetch up to $150K, then it means that there is pent up demand for the unrestored, no? A high price on this copy is reflective of demand, which is only good for the hobby. I don't see people over time favoring restored copies to unrestored copies. I don't follow the logic that a rise in value for unrestored copies is detrimental to the hobby. Please elaborate what I am missing :shrug:

[Ze-man]

If the 8.0 was sitting in an Ext. P. label I would say $150K was on the steep side.

 

But the book graded out as Mod. P.

 

Which to me means says the book was in pretty decent condition to start with because you cannot resurrect low grade books, and hope for Moderate. Once the CT starts adding up it quickly pushes a book past Moderate.

 

So as a collector I can see the appeal of owning a 95% original, apparent 8.0 Action 1 for a fraction of the cost.

 

Is it a bad investment?..who am I to say. Time will tell.

 

All I know is most any copy of Action 1 seems to keep going up and up and up with each passing day.

 

Even with people paying nosebleed prices upfront.

[Mmehdy]

My concern is comic book reality and super price leaps. The only reason some S paid 150K was not because the book was really worth that BUT that the unrestored copy sold for 1.5/2.2 sold for that price. There really is no value per say in the restored book, but it copies the real unrestored comic book.

 

Let me put it to you this way , is there a number or X that is consistent with restored vs unrestored. There is no exact number. That is the problem.

 

let me put it to you another way....just because action 1 sells for 2 million unrestored does not lead to the conclusion that a restored comic book value is sudddenly is $150,000.00. You are making a bad assumption about value.

 

Apple does not equal orange. I am not buying in the fact just because quality unrestored GA is going to moon, that restored comics will follow.

 

thank you for helping me qualify my thoughts.

[bluechip]

It is more frustration than anger. I am in this for life, I believe that comic collectors need to do that-collect comics and price yes is part collecting life. I do not know who bought this book, but my concern is long term stability in our comic book world.

 

Things are going great now. We need to draw the line as to what really is acceptable and valuable down the collecting road for the next 20 years.

 

Somebody needs to take a stand and not let things just go on with so much confusion and anger.we need to stick together as we are in the same boat.

 

This action comics #1 is good comic book for the record, its just nowhere near a $150,000.00 comic book, and if it really is...we are in trouble

 

who is "we" and in what "trouble"? These sort of statements just reinforce the conclusion that you think investor money should not go anywhere except toward the very specific sort of books you have in your collection.

 

A restored Action 1 selling for a small single-digit percentage of an unrestored copy is nowhere close to being a threat to the hobby. Nobody in their right mind would see it as threat to anything -- except possbily YOUR narrative that the only books deemed "investment worthy" are the things you own.

 

And CGC is supposed to determine not what condition a book is in but HOW it got in that condition and whether or not the WAY it got that damage was "acceptable"???

 

From my own experience in seeing how people react to companies that rate investments and grade tangible items, the biggest threat to CGC's credibility is the way they define restoration as including things that don't actually restore the book and then further ttreat some restored/altered books differently from other restored/altered books -- labelling some with warnings that say it's worth "substantially less" and others so that one book with color touch or a tear seal can carry a warning that it's worth "substantially less" because CGC deems a dot of color touch to have been done intentionally... yet then allows itself discretion not to label some books as worth less, despite those books having precisely the same alterations and precisely the same intentions behind them. I know absolutely that some very high grade and big money books (including some discovered and sold in the past by people who were subsequently affiliated with CGC) were given the "acceptable to invest" label even though they had alterations that were the supposed cause for putting other books in the warning: worth "substantially less" category. Now, you cuold go on all day about the integrity of the people involved, but virtually no one outside the hobby, who hears those basic facts, doesn't conclude that such a system carries a potential for abuse as deep as a well and as wide as a church door. Yet you wanna double down on it all and engage in deliberate, possibly tortious interference with books, attacking the value of other people's property. And you want to do it when it's incredibly clear that you have a personal financial agenda to destroy their value?? And you think nobody could or should be able to do anything about that?

 

I understand the fanatics who obsess over 'altered' books as if they were not collecters but ancient royalty obsessed with the virginity of their brides, but that is for you to determine what you will or will not buy. If it not for you to slander the motives of people. For pity's sake, in your previous posts you went so far as to say the buyer of the action 1 committed some moral wrong simply by purchasing something he wanted?! WTF?

 

The obsession with "unrestored" has been great for the sales of many thousands of brand spanking new 9.8s taken right off the rack and slabbed to make them look collectible. Are the kids and naive grandparents buying those books, thinking they're gonna go up up up in value, worthy of your righteous indignation. Would you dream of suggesting that CGC label those books in some way to warn people that HG copies of same are common as dirt.

 

The anti-resto obsession has easily led to its share of abuses, not to mention played a big part in the damaging of books to remove color touch or apply tape instead of archival materials, and the trend toward cutting up incomplete books and selling them one page or wrap at a time.

 

You actually think a grading cmopany, let alone a collecting community or an individual, has any legal right to condemn people and cause them financial harm because of their likes and dislikes and what they choose to effing BUY with their own money.

 

That's absurd at best and actionable at worst. Comic books are not conflict diamonds or baby harp seals. And there is no way that the average person out there presumes at the outset that a grading company is supposed to interfere with commerce between well-informed, consenting adults in order to punish people for putting archive seals on a book instead of using corrosive tape.