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what is going on at heritage?

Started by james1768-migration,

186 posts in this topic

Monkeyman

Monkeyman

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.

So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?

 

I personally don't have an issue with 2 or more new collectors entering the market and outbidding each other to a point where they're paying 4 to 5 times the FMV for books. Heck, we've all been newbies at some point in our collecting careers and have learned to settle into the market thru experience and learning from other collectors. However, what I do have a problem with is a newbie bidding $108,000 on a book and then retracting their bid for whatever reason. It just makes a serious auction look like a farce. Did the bidder call Heritage and say "oh gosh, I thought it was a Flash #1......my bad".

 

How many of these other books will be back up for sale in the next Heritage Auction because these new buyers were just thrill bidding and had no intention of paying? In this scenario, the original seller would be extremely upset, while many other collectors will perceive the auction house as either having a hand in the affair or at minimum being negligent.

 

Again, I really hope all these bids are legit and a couple of deep pocket buyers thought it would be fun to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra instead of doing a little research and finding higher graded copies for less money currently up for sale somewhere else!

 

I see this as a problem if potential bidders start worrying about the integrity of the auction house. Perception is everything.

 

Mike

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted

Heritage is now reporting they made a private sale of a Bat #1 CGC 9.2 for $850,000!!! :o

 

I remember when the book was going for 1/4 that not too many years ago and thinking it was a high price.

 

Obviously there are some people out there with a TON of money. Wish they would buy my books. :hi:

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rockman2008

rockman2008

Posted
Posted

Where is all that money coming from? My friends and I have been looking at the recovering real estate market. We've begun to notice there's been an influx of funds from China buying up properties "all cash offers" left and right. I'm starting to wonder if there might be overseas money involved buying up high grade GA.

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rockman2008

rockman2008

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.

So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?

 

I personally don't have an issue with 2 or more new collectors entering the market and outbidding each other to a point where they're paying 4 to 5 times the FMV for books. Heck, we've all been newbies at some point in our collecting careers and have learned to settle into the market thru experience and learning from other collectors. However, what I do have a problem with is a newbie bidding $108,000 on a book and then retracting their bid for whatever reason. It just makes a serious auction look like a farce. Did the bidder call Heritage and say "oh gosh, I thought it was a Flash #1......my bad".

 

How many of these other books will be back up for sale in the next Heritage Auction because these new buyers were just thrill bidding and had no intention of paying? In this scenario, the original seller would be extremely upset, while many other collectors will perceive the auction house as either having a hand in the affair or at minimum being negligent.

 

Again, I really hope all these bids are legit and a couple of deep pocket buyers thought it would be fun to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra instead of doing a little research and finding higher graded copies for less money currently up for sale somewhere else!

 

I see this as a problem if potential bidders start worrying about the integrity of the auction house. Perception is everything.

 

Mike

 

If a high percentage of books show up being "not sold" after receiving high bidding, then it's no longer a perception. It really is the integrity and ethics of the auction house that's a problem.

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sacentaur

sacentaur

Posted
Posted
It really is the integrity and ethics of the auction house that's a problem.

 

Exactly - and made even more noteworthy when those items were in serious question already for some.

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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.

So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?

 

I will break it down for you Rich

 

Me + buying + crazy bidding = bad

Me + selling + crazy bidding = good

 

:baiting::foryou:

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.

So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?

I believe this type of bidding causes some folks to "re think" their selling strategy...for example, because of a current heritage bid, a seller yesterday, can now want much more for a comparable book...thinking it is all of a sudden worth 3x, due to a crazy bid at an auction house (mind you, not a verified completed transaction, but a bid)... it inflates not only the auction copy, but in many cases (like someone pointed out today with an action on clink and like killercomics mentioned) other copies in the market...these inflated prices can slow potential buyers, and cause market stagnation...bad

 

it also takes some potential longer term collectors, and casts a very bad light on their purchases once they find out that they paid 10x FMV and can't even feel comfortable in recouping their purchase price... no matter how altruistic we want to be as collectors, anyone paying 10x market for a book is getting taken to the cleaners in a bad way...and that has to leave a bad taste in their mouth (and potentially others)...

 

it also can create the housing bubble analogy... we need steady and realistic price growth to maintain the health of our hobby...price stability is key in any market... in virtually all instances, these type of price variations hurt markets in both the short and longer term

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Dr Carl

Dr Carl

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!

 

I'd like to add my 2 cents here...

 

Price stability is very important to any market. When prices take wild fluctuations, new investors/collectors who start to study the market realize that this is a poor place to invest/collect because of these wild fluctuations.

 

Additionally, more seasoned investors/collectors tend to back off for a time to allow the market to regulate itself in an effort to avoid getting caught up in an unsustainable frenzy.

 

Sellers get a sense that their books are worth more than they are, and so dealers end up with fewer books to sell because the dealers wont meet the unreasonable demands...

 

In the short term, dealers have less, sellers end up disappointed (with the exception of a lucky 0.1%), seasoned collectors/investors may step back some, and new investors/collectors are scared off...

 

bad for the hobby...

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comicdonna

comicdonna

Posted
Posted
Me + selling + crazy bidding = good

 

:baiting::foryou:

If I owned the Action #36 CGC 8.5, I would be concerned that the sale of $26K plus would never be completed. This is just one example in this auction.
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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.

So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?

I believe this type of bidding causes some folks to "re think" their selling strategy...for example, because of a current heritage bid, a seller yesterday, can now want much more for a comparable book...thinking it is all of a sudden worth 3x, due to a crazy bid at an auction house (mind you, not a verified completed transaction, but a bid)... it inflates not only the auction copy, but in many cases (like someone pointed out today with an action on clink and like killercomics mentioned) other copies in the market...these inflated prices can slow potential buyers, and cause market stagnation...bad

 

it also takes some potential longer term collectors, and casts a very bad light on their purchases once they find out that they paid 10x FMV and can't even feel comfortable in recouping their purchase price... no matter how altruistic we want to be as collectors, anyone paying 10x market for a book is getting taken to the cleaners in a bad way...and that has to leave a bad taste in their mouth (and potentially others)...

 

it also can create the housing bubble analogy... we need steady and realistic price growth to maintain the health of our hobby...price stability is key in any market... in virtually all instances, these type of price variations hurt markets in both the short and longer term

 

So Rick, are you saying Mr Keller won't be return to comic collecting :o (I know I wouldn't if I took the pounding he took).

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Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer

Posted
Posted

Personally I find it hard to believe that big players like Keller and Cage could stay out of comics for good. I think we have all stepped away from the hobby at some point but if cash isn't an issue I just think it would be difficult for a guy like Cage for example [who probably has a real love for the hobby] to not get excited about wanting to collect again. Try and imagine having to step away from comics for good, how difficult would that be?

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.

So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?

I believe this type of bidding causes some folks to "re think" their selling strategy...for example, because of a current heritage bid, a seller yesterday, can now want much more for a comparable book...thinking it is all of a sudden worth 3x, due to a crazy bid at an auction house (mind you, not a verified completed transaction, but a bid)... it inflates not only the auction copy, but in many cases (like someone pointed out today with an action on clink and like killercomics mentioned) other copies in the market...these inflated prices can slow potential buyers, and cause market stagnation...bad

 

it also takes some potential longer term collectors, and casts a very bad light on their purchases once they find out that they paid 10x FMV and can't even feel comfortable in recouping their purchase price... no matter how altruistic we want to be as collectors, anyone paying 10x market for a book is getting taken to the cleaners in a bad way...and that has to leave a bad taste in their mouth (and potentially others)...

 

it also can create the housing bubble analogy... we need steady and realistic price growth to maintain the health of our hobby...price stability is key in any market... in virtually all instances, these type of price variations hurt markets in both the short and longer term

 

So Rick, are you saying Mr Keller won't be return to comic collecting :o (I know I wouldn't if I took the pounding he took).

hehe
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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.

So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?

 

Heres one of many reasons;

 

First when a book goes for beyond stupid money, as we are seeing presently at HA, the next guy with that exact same book in the same grade thinks his book is valued at that same price level and now the book gets held hostage at its new over inflated price. The next guy with the same book but half grade point less believes his book is worth slightly less than the over priced book. And this also happens with the guy who owns the same book in a higher grade as he wants more than the HA price or even a multiple of that sale, and so on, and so on. You get the idea. Finally, collectorS who would like to purchase said book for their personal collection or to complete a run can no longer do so, as its out of their price range. Why? Because of one stupid sale at auction which may or may not be real. Proof of this is when this senario happens on a book, you see dealers pulling that same book off their website as they do not want to under sell that same book. Also, you see it happen on Ebay, the book goes from $X to $5X. The book gets stagnate all of a sudden due to that one sale at auction which most everyone sees. And if this happens on enough books, the average collector can not afford to buy therefore slowing down the hobby and some getting out. My 2 cents!

So is it a good thing when something sells for a ridiculously low price at auction or on eBay?

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rodan57

rodan57

Posted
Posted
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!

 

I'd like to add my 2 cents here...

 

Price stability is very important to any market. When prices take wild fluctuations, new investors/collectors who start to study the market realize that this is a poor place to invest/collect because of these wild fluctuations.

 

Additionally, more seasoned investors/collectors tend to back off for a time to allow the market to regulate itself in an effort to avoid getting caught up in an unsustainable frenzy.

 

 

Yep.

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