Fellow Boardies Help, Is my ASM 1 Restored?

[seanfingh]

How does this hypothetical "aw-shucks" bucolic seller know about the "Price at GPA for raw books" sleight of hand?

 

Don't know, Symbiotic isn't giving details about him, presumably because he's sitll trying to protect his identity, which given the tendency for people to jump to conclusions is a good move.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/RandomestDude/JumpToConclusionsMat.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fark.com/comments/6452589/Math-professor-jumps-to-conclusion&h=469&w=500&sz=32&tbnid=hyst9JIrJA4d-M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=96&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djump%2Bto%2Bconclusions%2Bmat%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=jump+to+conclusions+mat&usg=__b1eP6GUpVfs3cppswdvtqTfuRgs=&docid=Wwt12BmpZHlSAM&sa=X&ei=RMfsT-KaNpKC8QTyy9z2BQ&ved=0CFkQ9QEwAw&dur=1608

[COI]

Alright guys. I know how to take my licks, but no need to bash on me. I'm already doing enough self-hating for the lot of us....

 

In 2002 I got hosed on two high grade, to-good-to-be-true Avengers 1s from one of the most well known scam artists in the entire hobby. Don't beat yourself up; it isn't constructive and despite all the gurus of hindsight posting in this thread, anyone with any real experience in this hobby has been burned at least once.

 

Additionally, you're handling this in a classy manner; karma will avenge you.

[seanfingh]

Alright guys. I know how to take my licks, but no need to bash on me. I'm already doing enough self-hating for the lot of us....

 

In 2002 I got hosed on two high grade, to-good-to-be-true Avengers 1s from one of the most well known scam artists in the entire hobby. Don't beat yourself up; it isn't constructive and despite all the gurus of hindsight posting in this thread, anyone with any real experience in this hobby has been burned at least once.

 

Additionally, you're handling this in a classy manner; karma will avenge you.

 

I read this post as though it were being read in a heart-felt and soulful manner by Ving Rhames.

[sufunk]

Alright guys. I know how to take my licks, but no need to bash on me. I'm already doing enough self-hating for the lot of us....

 

In 2002 I got hosed on two high grade, to-good-to-be-true Avengers 1s from one of the most well known scam artists in the entire hobby. Don't beat yourself up; it isn't constructive and despite all the gurus of hindsight posting in this thread, anyone with any real experience in this hobby has been burned at least once.

 

Additionally, you're handling this in a classy manner; karma will avenge you.

 

I read this post as though it were being read in a heart-felt and soulful manner by Ving Rhames.

 

Feel that sting?!? That's Karma with you!

[Ogami]

Nothing about this story feels right.

 

 

[Joe Kim]

The dealer sent me this e-mail after reading this post and would like the chance to respond to whats been posted.

 

I am so glad that you have had the time to sit down and take a break to think rationally, because now that I am at home, and having read through the full posting on that forum, my blood was beginning to boil. Whatever you may personally think, all it takes is one or two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons to mention my name and say something derogitary, and my reputation is unfairly put on the line.

A couple of key things were raised, which have been misinterpreted, and I know that was not your intention.

Specifically, I did not sell the book 'as is', that was really how you put it to me, that you would not give me any come back, whatever the final outcome.

The way it comes across in the forum is that I simply washed my hands of any outcome, when in fact I made it quite clear where I saw what looked like work on the book (exactly as the more helpful guys who posted pointed out), the gloss effect down the right hand edge, the dark shadow inside the cover, and the removal of the number '5' top left.

I did not (as is being put across) claim there was nothing there to worry about, or claim I couldn't see anything, but did say, I have no idea what if anything has been done to create these effects, as there is no obvious signs (to me) of anything being added. If that is what has happened (and it sounds like it is), I have no idea how they do it, because its seemless!

I am an experienced comicbook dealer of some 30 years. I am not (and don't pretend to be) a dealer in high end books, have any knowledge of professional restoration, and have never attempted to restore, nor submitted anything at all to CGC, nor even sold a CGC book (I personally don't like them, but thats another matter).

I think your knee jerk reaction (quite understandably) is to recoil from the book. Having read all that was posted, I don't blame you in the least. Maybe when we look at it again together, you may remember your initial reaction and excitement at what a nice looking item it actually is, remembering that this was with me pointing out the potential problems - nothing was hidden. As a pure inverstment - no doubt a big gamble. As a very very nice looking book to own - you decide.

I certainly don't think its a worthless bit of , and personally feel the price I put on it was fair, but if, after you haven given it proper (and personal) thought - not just listening to a few abusive knee-jerkers - you are unhappy, I will of course be happy to take the book back, and refund you.

If it has had the work done, that the more helpful guys listed (ie reinforcement along the right hand edge), I would eat my hat if this wasn't deemed professional restoration, and would similarly be shocked if this was again deemed 'extensive' restoration. I don't know how CGC make the decisions, but both the collector and dealer in me finds it very difficult to see how this is 'extensive'.

I also don't think its been hacked/trimmed or whatever - take a close look at that 9.0 unrestored CGC copy that wsa posted (look at it blown up), and that edge also looks uneven to me - and thats a real high end copy!

As far as I know my history, a lot (if not most) books from that early era suffered from blunt edge guiloteen (excuse incorrcet spelling) effect - its well documented, and a lot of Marvels have chipping (ragged right hand edge) as a result.

With the benefit of the more useful info posted across the forum, I would say that the right hand edge has been reinforced to some extent. I can't see how anything has been added in, as there is no join I could see, but maybe something has been lacquered on top (a guess, I genuinly don't know what they do to achieve this).

I don't think the cover has been washed, as some jerk said. I will bring you in my copy from home, which has the same slight smudging effect of some text inside - almost in the same place as yours (and you can also see where the chipping is, its in the same place on mine, put without being restored, so mine has a ragged edge).

You would expect a professionally trimmed copy to have an artificially clean straight edge in my opinion. Why go to the trouble of cleverly reinforcinfg the edge (if that what been done), and then hack away at it. It dosen't make sensse!

I am happy for you to post this email (with my name & shop removed please - it may seem like I am trying to hide, but its simply that with such vitriol being posted by an ignorant few, I am on a lose-lose, as I can't directly respond. I certainly don't wish to play out this trade on a forum, but it would be nice for the view to be at least balanced, with a strictly one-ff response/explanation.

I look forward to seeing you tomorrow, when we can both relax a little.

[scooter99]

The dealer sent me this e-mail after reading this post and would like the chance to respond to whats been posted.

 

I am so glad that you have had the time to sit down and take a break to think rationally, because now that I am at home, and having read through the full posting on that forum, my blood was beginning to boil. Whatever you may personally think, all it takes is one or two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons to mention my name and say something derogitary, and my reputation is unfairly put on the line.

A couple of key things were raised, which have been misinterpreted, and I know that was not your intention.

Specifically, I did not sell the book 'as is', that was really how you put it to me, that you would not give me any come back, whatever the final outcome.

The way it comes across in the forum is that I simply washed my hands of any outcome, when in fact I made it quite clear where I saw what looked like work on the book (exactly as the more helpful guys who posted pointed out), the gloss effect down the right hand edge, the dark shadow inside the cover, and the removal of the number '5' top left.

I did not (as is being put across) claim there was nothing there to worry about, or claim I couldn't see anything, but did say, I have no idea what if anything has been done to create these effects, as there is no obvious signs (to me) of anything being added. If that is what has happened (and it sounds like it is), I have no idea how they do it, because its seemless!

I am an experienced comicbook dealer of some 30 years. I am not (and don't pretend to be) a dealer in high end books, have any knowledge of professional restoration, and have never attempted to restore, nor submitted anything at all to CGC, nor even sold a CGC book (I personally don't like them, but thats another matter).

I think your knee jerk reaction (quite understandably) is to recoil from the book. Having read all that was posted, I don't blame you in the least. Maybe when we look at it again together, you may remember your initial reaction and excitement at what a nice looking item it actually is, remembering that this was with me pointing out the potential problems - nothing was hidden. As a pure inverstment - no doubt a big gamble. As a very very nice looking book to own - you decide.

I certainly don't think its a worthless bit of , and personally feel the price I put on it was fair, but if, after you haven given it proper (and personal) thought - not just listening to a few abusive knee-jerkers - you are unhappy, I will of course be happy to take the book back, and refund you.

If it has had the work done, that the more helpful guys listed (ie reinforcement along the right hand edge), I would eat my hat if this wasn't deemed professional restoration, and would similarly be shocked if this was again deemed 'extensive' restoration. I don't know how CGC make the decisions, but both the collector and dealer in me finds it very difficult to see how this is 'extensive'.

I also don't think its been hacked/trimmed or whatever - take a close look at that 9.0 unrestored CGC copy that wsa posted (look at it blown up), and that edge also looks uneven to me - and thats a real high end copy!

As far as I know my history, a lot (if not most) books from that early era suffered from blunt edge guiloteen (excuse incorrcet spelling) effect - its well documented, and a lot of Marvels have chipping (ragged right hand edge) as a result.

With the benefit of the more useful info posted across the forum, I would say that the right hand edge has been reinforced to some extent. I can't see how anything has been added in, as there is no join I could see, but maybe something has been lacquered on top (a guess, I genuinly don't know what they do to achieve this).

I don't think the cover has been washed, as some jerk said. I will bring you in my copy from home, which has the same slight smudging effect of some text inside - almost in the same place as yours (and you can also see where the chipping is, its in the same place on mine, put without being restored, so mine has a ragged edge).

You would expect a professionally trimmed copy to have an artificially clean straight edge in my opinion. Why go to the trouble of cleverly reinforcinfg the edge (if that what been done), and then hack away at it. It dosen't make sensse!

I am happy for you to post this email (with my name & shop removed please - it may seem like I am trying to hide, but its simply that with such vitriol being posted by an ignorant few, I am on a lose-lose, as I can't directly respond. I certainly don't wish to play out this trade on a forum, but it would be nice for the view to be at least balanced, with a strictly one-ff response/explanation.

I look forward to seeing you tomorrow, when we can both relax a little.

 

I'm glad the dealer is going to refund your dough. (thumbs u

[seanfingh]

 

$10,000 for a frankenbook is awful, but as i said, my sympathies have lost their steam.

[sufunk]

So, he's never sold a CGC book or submitted a book to CGC and "personally doesn't like them". However, after looking at the book with you with a magnifying glass, he didn't see anything wrong and it was so nice he was immediately going to submit it himself to CGC to be slabbed if you didn't buy it for $9500 ASAP.

 

Isn't that what you said he said when you guys closely examined the book? Did he or did he not say he would be getting the book slabbed if you didn't buy it?

 

Like ogami said, NOTHING about this story feels right or adds up IMO. He doesn't deal in high end books but has a 10k asm1, a god knows what grade Hulk 1, a 9.6 ASM 129, a 9.0+ hulk 181 and I forget what grade Silver surfer 1-4. Sounds kind of high end to me

[seanfingh]

 

Silver Age Keys.

[Ogami]

Marvel SA Keys.

 

 

[sufunk]

The dealer sent me this e-mail after reading this post and would like the chance to respond to whats been posted.

 

I am so glad that you have had the time to sit down and take a break to think rationally, because now that I am at home, and having read through the full posting on that forum, my blood was beginning to boil. Whatever you may personally think, all it takes is one or two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons to mention my name and say something derogitary, and my reputation is unfairly put on the line.

A couple of key things were raised, which have been misinterpreted, and I know that was not your intention.

Specifically, I did not sell the book 'as is', that was really how you put it to me, that you would not give me any come back, whatever the final outcome.

The way it comes across in the forum is that I simply washed my hands of any outcome, when in fact I made it quite clear where I saw what looked like work on the book (exactly as the more helpful guys who posted pointed out), the gloss effect down the right hand edge, the dark shadow inside the cover, and the removal of the number '5' top left.

I did not (as is being put across) claim there was nothing there to worry about, or claim I couldn't see anything, but did say, I have no idea what if anything has been done to create these effects, as there is no obvious signs (to me) of anything being added. If that is what has happened (and it sounds like it is), I have no idea how they do it, because its seemless!

I am an experienced comicbook dealer of some 30 years. I am not (and don't pretend to be) a dealer in high end books, have any knowledge of professional restoration, and have never attempted to restore, nor submitted anything at all to CGC, nor even sold a CGC book (I personally don't like them, but thats another matter).

I think your knee jerk reaction (quite understandably) is to recoil from the book. Having read all that was posted, I don't blame you in the least. Maybe when we look at it again together, you may remember your initial reaction and excitement at what a nice looking item it actually is, remembering that this was with me pointing out the potential problems - nothing was hidden. As a pure inverstment - no doubt a big gamble. As a very very nice looking book to own - you decide.

I certainly don't think its a worthless bit of , and personally feel the price I put on it was fair, but if, after you haven given it proper (and personal) thought - not just listening to a few abusive knee-jerkers - you are unhappy, I will of course be happy to take the book back, and refund you.

If it has had the work done, that the more helpful guys listed (ie reinforcement along the right hand edge), I would eat my hat if this wasn't deemed professional restoration, and would similarly be shocked if this was again deemed 'extensive' restoration. I don't know how CGC make the decisions, but both the collector and dealer in me finds it very difficult to see how this is 'extensive'.

I also don't think its been hacked/trimmed or whatever - take a close look at that 9.0 unrestored CGC copy that wsa posted (look at it blown up), and that edge also looks uneven to me - and thats a real high end copy!

As far as I know my history, a lot (if not most) books from that early era suffered from blunt edge guiloteen (excuse incorrcet spelling) effect - its well documented, and a lot of Marvels have chipping (ragged right hand edge) as a result.

With the benefit of the more useful info posted across the forum, I would say that the right hand edge has been reinforced to some extent. I can't see how anything has been added in, as there is no join I could see, but maybe something has been lacquered on top (a guess, I genuinly don't know what they do to achieve this).

I don't think the cover has been washed, as some jerk said. I will bring you in my copy from home, which has the same slight smudging effect of some text inside - almost in the same place as yours (and you can also see where the chipping is, its in the same place on mine, put without being restored, so mine has a ragged edge).

You would expect a professionally trimmed copy to have an artificially clean straight edge in my opinion. Why go to the trouble of cleverly reinforcinfg the edge (if that what been done), and then hack away at it. It dosen't make sensse!

I am happy for you to post this email (with my name & shop removed please - it may seem like I am trying to hide, but its simply that with such vitriol being posted by an ignorant few, I am on a lose-lose, as I can't directly respond. I certainly don't wish to play out this trade on a forum, but it would be nice for the view to be at least balanced, with a strictly one-ff response/explanation.

I look forward to seeing you tomorrow, when we can both relax a little.

 

I'm glad the dealer is going to refund your dough. (thumbs u

 

+1

 

Take that $9500 back and run like Carl Lewis (thumbs u

 

He may not think its a "worthless POS" and that "his price is fair" but he's wrong. For 10k, you can get get a 10 times nicer ASM1 than that copy (thumbs u

[DiceX]

Alright guys. I know how to take my licks, but no need to bash on me. I'm already doing enough self-hating for the lot of us....

 

In 2002 I got hosed on two high grade, to-good-to-be-true Avengers 1s from one of the most well known scam artists in the entire hobby. Don't beat yourself up; it isn't constructive and despite all the gurus of hindsight posting in this thread, anyone with any real experience in this hobby has been burned at least once.

 

Additionally, you're handling this in a classy manner; karma will avenge you.

 

I read this post as though it were being read in a heart-felt and soulful manner by Ving Rhames.

 

Feel that sting?!? That's Karma with you!

 

Naw, man. I'm pretty far from "ok."

 

 

[hulksmashdave]

The dealer sent me this e-mail after reading this post and would like the chance to respond to whats been posted.

 

I am so glad that you have had the time to sit down and take a break to think rationally, because now that I am at home, and having read through the full posting on that forum, my blood was beginning to boil. Whatever you may personally think, all it takes is one or two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons to mention my name and say something derogitary, and my reputation is unfairly put on the line.

A couple of key things were raised, which have been misinterpreted, and I know that was not your intention.

Specifically, I did not sell the book 'as is', that was really how you put it to me, that you would not give me any come back, whatever the final outcome.

The way it comes across in the forum is that I simply washed my hands of any outcome, when in fact I made it quite clear where I saw what looked like work on the book (exactly as the more helpful guys who posted pointed out), the gloss effect down the right hand edge, the dark shadow inside the cover, and the removal of the number '5' top left.

I did not (as is being put across) claim there was nothing there to worry about, or claim I couldn't see anything, but did say, I have no idea what if anything has been done to create these effects, as there is no obvious signs (to me) of anything being added. If that is what has happened (and it sounds like it is), I have no idea how they do it, because its seemless!

I am an experienced comicbook dealer of some 30 years. I am not (and don't pretend to be) a dealer in high end books, have any knowledge of professional restoration, and have never attempted to restore, nor submitted anything at all to CGC, nor even sold a CGC book (I personally don't like them, but thats another matter).

I think your knee jerk reaction (quite understandably) is to recoil from the book. Having read all that was posted, I don't blame you in the least. Maybe when we look at it again together, you may remember your initial reaction and excitement at what a nice looking item it actually is, remembering that this was with me pointing out the potential problems - nothing was hidden. As a pure inverstment - no doubt a big gamble. As a very very nice looking book to own - you decide.

I certainly don't think its a worthless bit of , and personally feel the price I put on it was fair, but if, after you haven given it proper (and personal) thought - not just listening to a few abusive knee-jerkers - you are unhappy, I will of course be happy to take the book back, and refund you.

If it has had the work done, that the more helpful guys listed (ie reinforcement along the right hand edge), I would eat my hat if this wasn't deemed professional restoration, and would similarly be shocked if this was again deemed 'extensive' restoration. I don't know how CGC make the decisions, but both the collector and dealer in me finds it very difficult to see how this is 'extensive'.

I also don't think its been hacked/trimmed or whatever - take a close look at that 9.0 unrestored CGC copy that wsa posted (look at it blown up), and that edge also looks uneven to me - and thats a real high end copy!

As far as I know my history, a lot (if not most) books from that early era suffered from blunt edge guiloteen (excuse incorrcet spelling) effect - its well documented, and a lot of Marvels have chipping (ragged right hand edge) as a result.

With the benefit of the more useful info posted across the forum, I would say that the right hand edge has been reinforced to some extent. I can't see how anything has been added in, as there is no join I could see, but maybe something has been lacquered on top (a guess, I genuinly don't know what they do to achieve this).

I don't think the cover has been washed, as some jerk said. I will bring you in my copy from home, which has the same slight smudging effect of some text inside - almost in the same place as yours (and you can also see where the chipping is, its in the same place on mine, put without being restored, so mine has a ragged edge).

You would expect a professionally trimmed copy to have an artificially clean straight edge in my opinion. Why go to the trouble of cleverly reinforcinfg the edge (if that what been done), and then hack away at it. It dosen't make sensse!

I am happy for you to post this email (with my name & shop removed please - it may seem like I am trying to hide, but its simply that with such vitriol being posted by an ignorant few, I am on a lose-lose, as I can't directly respond. I certainly don't wish to play out this trade on a forum, but it would be nice for the view to be at least balanced, with a strictly one-ff response/explanation.

I look forward to seeing you tomorrow, when we can both relax a little.

 

He can't say he has no knowledge of restoration and then say he doesn't think the restoration is "extensive."

 

Talking out of both sides of his mouth.

 

He also said Kenny was a "jerk" by simply pointing out what restoration might be present. Who is the jerk?

[DiceX]

$10,000 for a frankenbook is awful, but as i said, my sympathies have lost their steam.

 

Yeah. Mine too.

 

Oh, wait. I never had those. What do they feel like?

 

 

[sufunk]

The dealer sent me this e-mail after reading this post and would like the chance to respond to whats been posted.

 

I am so glad that you have had the time to sit down and take a break to think rationally, because now that I am at home, and having read through the full posting on that forum, my blood was beginning to boil. Whatever you may personally think, all it takes is one or two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons to mention my name and say something derogitary, and my reputation is unfairly put on the line.

A couple of key things were raised, which have been misinterpreted, and I know that was not your intention.

Specifically, I did not sell the book 'as is', that was really how you put it to me, that you would not give me any come back, whatever the final outcome.

The way it comes across in the forum is that I simply washed my hands of any outcome, when in fact I made it quite clear where I saw what looked like work on the book (exactly as the more helpful guys who posted pointed out), the gloss effect down the right hand edge, the dark shadow inside the cover, and the removal of the number '5' top left.

I did not (as is being put across) claim there was nothing there to worry about, or claim I couldn't see anything, but did say, I have no idea what if anything has been done to create these effects, as there is no obvious signs (to me) of anything being added. If that is what has happened (and it sounds like it is), I have no idea how they do it, because its seemless!

I am an experienced comicbook dealer of some 30 years. I am not (and don't pretend to be) a dealer in high end books, have any knowledge of professional restoration, and have never attempted to restore, nor submitted anything at all to CGC, nor even sold a CGC book (I personally don't like them, but thats another matter).

I think your knee jerk reaction (quite understandably) is to recoil from the book. Having read all that was posted, I don't blame you in the least. Maybe when we look at it again together, you may remember your initial reaction and excitement at what a nice looking item it actually is, remembering that this was with me pointing out the potential problems - nothing was hidden. As a pure inverstment - no doubt a big gamble. As a very very nice looking book to own - you decide.

I certainly don't think its a worthless bit of , and personally feel the price I put on it was fair, but if, after you haven given it proper (and personal) thought - not just listening to a few abusive knee-jerkers - you are unhappy, I will of course be happy to take the book back, and refund you.

If it has had the work done, that the more helpful guys listed (ie reinforcement along the right hand edge), I would eat my hat if this wasn't deemed professional restoration, and would similarly be shocked if this was again deemed 'extensive' restoration. I don't know how CGC make the decisions, but both the collector and dealer in me finds it very difficult to see how this is 'extensive'.

I also don't think its been hacked/trimmed or whatever - take a close look at that 9.0 unrestored CGC copy that wsa posted (look at it blown up), and that edge also looks uneven to me - and thats a real high end copy!

As far as I know my history, a lot (if not most) books from that early era suffered from blunt edge guiloteen (excuse incorrcet spelling) effect - its well documented, and a lot of Marvels have chipping (ragged right hand edge) as a result.

With the benefit of the more useful info posted across the forum, I would say that the right hand edge has been reinforced to some extent. I can't see how anything has been added in, as there is no join I could see, but maybe something has been lacquered on top (a guess, I genuinly don't know what they do to achieve this).

I don't think the cover has been washed, as some jerk said. I will bring you in my copy from home, which has the same slight smudging effect of some text inside - almost in the same place as yours (and you can also see where the chipping is, its in the same place on mine, put without being restored, so mine has a ragged edge).

You would expect a professionally trimmed copy to have an artificially clean straight edge in my opinion. Why go to the trouble of cleverly reinforcinfg the edge (if that what been done), and then hack away at it. It dosen't make sensse!

I am happy for you to post this email (with my name & shop removed please - it may seem like I am trying to hide, but its simply that with such vitriol being posted by an ignorant few, I am on a lose-lose, as I can't directly respond. I certainly don't wish to play out this trade on a forum, but it would be nice for the view to be at least balanced, with a strictly one-ff response/explanation.

I look forward to seeing you tomorrow, when we can both relax a little.

 

He can't say he has no knowledge of restoration and then say he doesn't think the restoration is "extensive."

 

Talking out of both sides of his mouth.

 

He also said Kenny was a "jerk" by simply pointing out what restoration might be present. Who is the jerk?

 

+1

 

He can say what he wants about me, dice or some others but what the hell did Kenny do that he's a jerk???

 

I can't help but think how remarkably similar that email sounds to the one I received from robojo after I found out the 9.2-9.4 X-Men2 I bought from him was actually a 8.5 he bought from WW and cracked out

[FFB]

The only part of his comments about the restoration that is true is the part where he says he does not know how to spot it. Everything else is wrong. The book is trimmed badly, there is a lot of color touch, the book was clearly disassembled based on how the staples look and based on the amount of inpainting that was done on the book, and lord knows what else.

 

To the unnamed dealer:

 

It is laughable that you say you don't like CGC. Books like this are the reason why so many high end collectors won't buy raw books. Because too many people selling books either truly don't know what they're doing or they do see the restoration and choose not to fess up about it.

 

Having said that, giving a refund was the right thing to do. I wasn't there at the time of the sale and I don't know whose story is more correct, but I do know that book is badly restored, although aside from the TRIMMING, the work looks like it was done with professional materials, i.e., not with marker pen. Apart from that, it is clearly an Extensive P book, maybe Moderate P if you get lucky.

 

The dealer sent me this e-mail after reading this post and would like the chance to respond to whats been posted.

 

I am so glad that you have had the time to sit down and take a break to think rationally, because now that I am at home, and having read through the full posting on that forum, my blood was beginning to boil. Whatever you may personally think, all it takes is one or two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons to mention my name and say something derogitary, and my reputation is unfairly put on the line.

A couple of key things were raised, which have been misinterpreted, and I know that was not your intention.

Specifically, I did not sell the book 'as is', that was really how you put it to me, that you would not give me any come back, whatever the final outcome.

The way it comes across in the forum is that I simply washed my hands of any outcome, when in fact I made it quite clear where I saw what looked like work on the book (exactly as the more helpful guys who posted pointed out), the gloss effect down the right hand edge, the dark shadow inside the cover, and the removal of the number '5' top left.

I did not (as is being put across) claim there was nothing there to worry about, or claim I couldn't see anything, but did say, I have no idea what if anything has been done to create these effects, as there is no obvious signs (to me) of anything being added. If that is what has happened (and it sounds like it is), I have no idea how they do it, because its seemless!

I am an experienced comicbook dealer of some 30 years. I am not (and don't pretend to be) a dealer in high end books, have any knowledge of professional restoration, and have never attempted to restore, nor submitted anything at all to CGC, nor even sold a CGC book (I personally don't like them, but thats another matter).

I think your knee jerk reaction (quite understandably) is to recoil from the book. Having read all that was posted, I don't blame you in the least. Maybe when we look at it again together, you may remember your initial reaction and excitement at what a nice looking item it actually is, remembering that this was with me pointing out the potential problems - nothing was hidden. As a pure inverstment - no doubt a big gamble. As a very very nice looking book to own - you decide.

I certainly don't think its a worthless bit of , and personally feel the price I put on it was fair, but if, after you haven given it proper (and personal) thought - not just listening to a few abusive knee-jerkers - you are unhappy, I will of course be happy to take the book back, and refund you.

If it has had the work done, that the more helpful guys listed (ie reinforcement along the right hand edge), I would eat my hat if this wasn't deemed professional restoration, and would similarly be shocked if this was again deemed 'extensive' restoration. I don't know how CGC make the decisions, but both the collector and dealer in me finds it very difficult to see how this is 'extensive'.

I also don't think its been hacked/trimmed or whatever - take a close look at that 9.0 unrestored CGC copy that wsa posted (look at it blown up), and that edge also looks uneven to me - and thats a real high end copy!

As far as I know my history, a lot (if not most) books from that early era suffered from blunt edge guiloteen (excuse incorrcet spelling) effect - its well documented, and a lot of Marvels have chipping (ragged right hand edge) as a result.

With the benefit of the more useful info posted across the forum, I would say that the right hand edge has been reinforced to some extent. I can't see how anything has been added in, as there is no join I could see, but maybe something has been lacquered on top (a guess, I genuinly don't know what they do to achieve this).

I don't think the cover has been washed, as some jerk said. I will bring you in my copy from home, which has the same slight smudging effect of some text inside - almost in the same place as yours (and you can also see where the chipping is, its in the same place on mine, put without being restored, so mine has a ragged edge).

You would expect a professionally trimmed copy to have an artificially clean straight edge in my opinion. Why go to the trouble of cleverly reinforcinfg the edge (if that what been done), and then hack away at it. It dosen't make sensse!

I am happy for you to post this email (with my name & shop removed please - it may seem like I am trying to hide, but its simply that with such vitriol being posted by an ignorant few, I am on a lose-lose, as I can't directly respond. I certainly don't wish to play out this trade on a forum, but it would be nice for the view to be at least balanced, with a strictly one-ff response/explanation.

I look forward to seeing you tomorrow, when we can both relax a little.

[oakman29]

How can you sell comics for 30 years and not see the blatant resto on this book?

[Anfield Fox]

Even if he didn't know it was restored (and i find that hard to believe), how could he possibly sell that book as a VF+ to VF/NM?

 

Look like a VG/FN maybe a FN+ at best even if you look past the obvious resto.

[Mark 1]

Even if he didn't know it was restored (and i find that hard to believe), how could he possibly sell that book as a VF+ to VF/NM?

 

Look like a VG/FN maybe a FN+ at best even if you look past the obvious resto.

 

I don't really agree with that. The book looks like a 7.5 to me...

 

[Edit] Check out the PGM forum where the OP also posted this book. Others are in the same ballpark as me.