Amazing 678 Mary Jane variant.... 2 2

[Jaydogrules]

54,252 copies sold in North America means there are likely 60,000+ regular editions.

1:50 would be 1,200 copies. They print at least 1,000 because there's a cost benefit.

There are likely 1,200 if they just order the 1:50 because it's just business.

Unearned copies go in a box. One box might sit for years.

It might be offered in a special deal (like the FF 1:50 for $5).

It might be shared in the offices or given away.

 

Regardless, there are 1,000... and probably 1,200.

 

There's a "cost benefit" to over-printing a title that's in the doldrums ?

 

I don't think so. I think the cumulative data on your site for this book (and others with comparable print runs) belie that statement.

 

-J.

 

PS: I love your site. (thumbs u

 

 

[valiantman]

54,252 copies sold in North America means there are likely 60,000+ regular editions.

1:50 would be 1,200 copies. They print at least 1,000 because there's a cost benefit.

There are likely 1,200 if they just order the 1:50 because it's just business.

Unearned copies go in a box. One box might sit for years.

It might be offered in a special deal (like the FF 1:50 for $5).

It might be shared in the offices or given away.

 

Regardless, there are 1,000... and probably 1,200.

 

There's a "cost benefit" to over-printing a title that's in the doldrums ?

 

I don't think so. I think the cumulative data on your site for this book (and others with comparable print runs) belie that statement.

 

-J.

 

PS: I love your site. (thumbs u

 

 

No, there is a cost benefit to printing AT LEAST 1,000 copies of each comic.

The total cost under 1,000 copies is basically identical to the cost of 1,000.

If you print 500, you'll pay the cost of 1,000... and you'll only get 500.

"Buy one for the price of two!" (No business would ever do that.)

Why wouldn't you pay for 1,000 and get 1,000?

 

My concern (if I was "invested" in this book) would be:

All indications are that there are NOT 1,000 copies of this book in the current market.

Which means that this particular book is in danger of being significantly impacted if boxes of the book are sitting somewhere.

 

It would be much better for owners of this comic if EVERY copy was distributed.

If would be better if there was not a "hoard" of these books anywhere... particularly in unknown (and potentially uncaring) hands.

 

But... because there are so few available in the market... and because Marvel likely printed at least 1,000 copies...

there is a huge risk associated with those missing books.

If they're in one place... they could kill the market when they arrive.

Primer #2 is a perfect example... even though it happened 20 years after printing.

[N/A]

Wow!

 

Nothing you listed has anything to do with proving a print. Manufacturers of high volume commodities often insist on minimum print runs. I am assuming Marvel did as they always have done. You are assuming they made an exception because hindsight tells you they should have. It is rare by comparison to other moderns and is currently a high dollar book for moderns. It is neither in the world of comics.

 

You have the advantage of hindsight. Marvel did not. They print to their SOP. Always have. No need for exceptions.

[Lazyboy]

And to think that the ASM 667 Dell'otto has a print run estimated by ______ to be as low as 200.

 

-J.

?

[valiantman]

Publishers will not pay the cost of 1,000 comics to get 500 comics.

The 1:50 ratio is for RETAILERS. Publishers OWN the property.

They can print as many as they want... it's their property... it's their money.

If they pay for 1,000... they won't get 500. They'll get what they paid for.

[Jaydogrules]

54,252 copies sold in North America means there are likely 60,000+ regular editions.

1:50 would be 1,200 copies. They print at least 1,000 because there's a cost benefit.

There are likely 1,200 if they just order the 1:50 because it's just business.

Unearned copies go in a box. One box might sit for years.

It might be offered in a special deal (like the FF 1:50 for $5).

It might be shared in the offices or given away.

 

Regardless, there are 1,000... and probably 1,200.

 

There's a "cost benefit" to over-printing a title that's in the doldrums ?

 

I don't think so. I think the cumulative data on your site for this book (and others with comparable print runs) belie that statement.

 

-J.

 

PS: I love your site. (thumbs u

 

 

No, there is a cost benefit to printing AT LEAST 1,000 copies of each comic.

The total cost under 1,000 copies is basically identical to the cost of 1,000.

If you print 500, you'll pay the cost of 1,000... and you'll only get 500.

"Buy one for the price of two!" (No business would ever do that.)

Why wouldn't you pay for 1,000 and get 1,000?

 

My concern (if I was "invested" in this book) would be:

All indications are that there are NOT 1,000 copies of this book in the current market.

Which means that this particular book is in danger of being significantly impacted if boxes of the book are sitting somewhere.

 

It would be much better for owners of this comic if EVERY copy was distributed.

If would be better if there was not a "hoard" of these books anywhere... particularly in unknown (and potentially uncaring) hands.

 

But... because there are so few available in the market... and because Marvel likely printed 1,000 copies.

There is a huge risk associated with those missing books. If they're in one place... they could kill the market when they arrive.

Primer #2 is a perfect example... even though it happened 20 years after printing.

 

 

Again, this statement could literally be said about "any" book of "any" era. I'm not so sure what the sudden obsession seems to be with "this" book to belabor such a blatantly speculative and extraordinarily unlikely scenario.

 

-J.

[Bill1]

Well, I would like a 9.8, but I don't want to pay over a few hundred, so I hope someone finds that box soon! It is probably on the shelf behind the Superman/Bradman books- they are slowly getting those out, so when they are done they can start on these!

[Lazyboy]

Wow. You just keep repeating yourself hoping it's true. Where was RMA "far fetched"? Do you think FF was selling well? There are considerably more substantiated facts pointing to a larger print run than you imply. Your constant refusal to accept anything but suggestions of a lower print is mind boggling.

 

Neither you nor RMA have presented any actual "fact".

 

The "fact" is there are only 92 copies of this book on the census even after 3.5 years, and a book that has consistently sold for a high dollar since its release.

 

The "fact" is that its high dollar value is partly due to its rarity, both in high grade, in the census, and its availability on the market.

 

The "fact" is that ASM sales were half then what they are now, so not many retailers were blowing up their orders to qualify for this variant.

 

The "fact" is that there are other high dollar moderns with comparable estimated print runs (500) that have even more slabbed copies accounted for than this one (wolverine 1, siege 3 campbell).

 

Those are the "facts".

 

Here now is what you and RMA have speculated about:

 

You have speculated that there is a warehouse full of copies of this book.

 

You have speculated that there are low census numbers only because people aren't bothering to slab this high dollar book.

 

You have speculated that marvel may some day sell "extra copies" of this book for $5.

 

You have speculated that marvel over-printed this book even in a down Spidey market because....well, just because. Contrary to your opinion on the matter, Marvel has, on many, many occasions, printed much less than 1000 copies of a variant. To suggest or state otherwise is pure nonsense.

 

I think that just about covers it. (thumbs u

 

-J.

I guess that must be a fact.

Which issues? Prove it.

[valiantman]

Which means that this particular book is in danger of being significantly impacted if boxes of the book are sitting somewhere.

Again, this statement could literally be said about "any" book of "any" era. I'm not so sure what the sudden obsession seems to be with "this" book to belabor such a blatantly speculative and extraordinarily unlikely scenario.

 

-J.

Yes... it can be said for ANY book of ANY era.

 

If a comic is worth $5 and is believed to be hard to find... it is not much of a risk ($5) if more show up.

 

It is risky to spend thousands of dollars on a comic which bases its value primarily on being hard to find.

It only takes one event --- finding some more --- to significantly impact the market.

If it is common for publishers to print at least 1,000 copies of every comic... and it is...

and if it is believed that much fewer than 1,000 copies are in the market...

then it is a RISK to believe that the other copies will never appear.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

To play Devil's Advocate.

 

Marvel produced the direct edition of 678 with 54,252 copies.

 

This variant is 1:50 so that would mean there should be 1,085 copies of this book.

 

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2012/2012-01.html

 

Those are ALLOCATION ratios, not PRINT RUN ratios.

 

"If you order 50 copies of the regular version, you get 1 copy of the variant."

 

It has nothing to do with the print run of the variant.

 

[Lonzilla]

Marvel could have a stash of them that they give away on a whim for whatever reason, I know of 1 for absolute fact! How many are in that stash we will never know because it's Marvel and they don't care if we know or not.

As for the cost difference between printing 500 and 1000, again it's marvel and they don't care because they can afford it, but I'd still guess 1000 copies is the accurate number.

Hard for us to believe it, but not everyone who has a 678 is a slabber

[Dark Knight]

Let's see how values for this book will be 5-10 years from now. Great cover but not $1000 worth to me

[RockMyAmadeus]

To play Devil's Advocate.

 

Marvel produced the direct edition of 678 with 54,252 copies.

 

This variant is 1:50 so that would mean there should be 1,085 copies of this book.

 

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2012/2012-01.html

 

That's only if every shop that ordered the book ordered 50+ copies of the regular cover.

 

Time and and the book's overall scarcity has suggested that certainly did not happen. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Ok we can say that. But it is possible that Marvel still "did" print those copies, but never distributed them to retailers. Maybe some were destroyed or given away to employees? Still a wicked low print run.

 

1:50 is a DISTRIBUTION ratio and not a PRINT ratio. I believe it has been said here many times. Marvel does not print to order. 1:50 has nothing to do with print run.

 

Yes.

[Jaydogrules]

Wow!

 

Nothing you listed has anything to do with proving a print. Manufacturers of high volume commodities often insist on minimum print runs. I am assuming Marvel did as they always have done. You are assuming they made an exception because hindsight tells you they should have. It is rare by comparison to other moderns and is currently a high dollar book for moderns. It is neither in the world of comics.

 

You have the advantage of hindsight. Marvel did not. They print to their SOP. Always have. No need for exceptions.

 

Uh...actually "hindsight" has nothing to do with it. ASM was a ~50,000 seller for more than a year and a half before this book was even thought of. So they would have had much more than an inkling as to how much of a variant to print to meet a proposed incentive well in advance. Which is why they were caught with their pants down a little on this one with a resulting seriously under-ordered book that ended up turning into a phenomenon. Whoops!

 

It was a perfect storm of events if you will.

 

-J.

[Dark Knight]

I think everyone who works for Marvel or working for Marvel Comics distributors got a complimentary copy. It's highly likely I think. If it is true, that should be around 500 copies handed out

[N/A]

Wow. You just keep repeating yourself hoping it's true. Where was RMA "far fetched"? Do you think FF was selling well? There are considerably more substantiated facts pointing to a larger print run than you imply. Your constant refusal to accept anything but suggestions of a lower print is mind boggling.

 

Neither you nor RMA have presented any actual "fact".

 

The "fact" is there are only 92 copies of this book on the census even after 3.5 years, and a book that has consistently sold for a high dollar since its release.

 

The "fact" is that its high dollar value is partly due to its rarity, both in high grade, in the census, and its availability on the market.

 

The "fact" is that ASM sales were half then what they are now, so not many retailers were blowing up their orders to qualify for this variant.

 

The "fact" is that there are other high dollar moderns with comparable estimated print runs (500) that have even more slabbed copies accounted for than this one (wolverine 1, siege 3 campbell).

 

Those are the "facts".

 

Here now is what you and RMA have speculated about:

 

You have speculated that there is a warehouse full of copies of this book.

 

You have speculated that there are low census numbers only because people aren't bothering to slab this high dollar book.

 

You have speculated that marvel may some day sell "extra copies" of this book for $5.

 

You have speculated that marvel over-printed this book even in a down Spidey market because....well, just because. Contrary to your opinion on the matter, Marvel has, on many, many occasions, printed much less than 1000 copies of a variant. To suggest or state otherwise is pure nonsense.

 

I think that just about covers it. (thumbs u

 

-J.

I guess that must be a fact.

Which issues? Prove it.

 

Prove the SOP? See Valiant's post. Is an exception ever more likely than the standard?

[RockMyAmadeus]

To play Devil's Advocate.

 

Marvel produced the direct edition of 678 with 54,252 copies.

 

This variant is 1:50 so that would mean there should be 1,085 copies of this book.

 

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2012/2012-01.html

 

That's only if every shop that ordered the book ordered 50+ copies of the regular cover.

 

Time and and the book's overall scarcity has suggested that certainly did not happen. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Ok we can say that. But it is possible that Marvel still "did" print those copies, but never distributed them to retailers. Maybe some were destroyed or given away to employees? Still a wicked low print run.

 

Again, highly unlikely given how poor spidey sales were at the time. As you can see ASM 678 barely cracked the top 20 then. There would be little reason or motivation for Marvel to randomly decide to over-print "this" specific book, regardless of what poppycock RMA is trying to float for whatever reason. Reality has already proven his far fetched theories and speculation to be wrong. (thumbs u

 

Please don't dismiss what I have to say as "poppycock", regardless of whether you agree or not.

 

You may not understand these things, and you may not know these things, but none of that means you need to be dismissive and insulting. I don't hold that you don't know these things against you, and publicly call what you have to say "poppycock", or use other such dismissive language.

 

If you can't disagree without being disagreeable, there's no point in having any discussion at all.

 

And frankly his sweeping and unsubstantiated statements can be made about virtually "any" book from any era, so I'm really starting to wonder what his fixation is about trying so strenuously (and yet so unsuccessfully) to make them about "this" particular book.

 

-J.

 

This is not only not true, it is a mischaracterization of the situation.

 

Stick to the facts, and leave your speculations about my motives at the door.

[Jaydogrules]

I think everyone who works for Marvel or working for Marvel Comics distributors got a complimentary copy. It's highly likely I think. If it is true, that should be around 500 copies handed out

 

Then where are they? Marvel does that with "some" books perhaps. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that happened with this book, however, because it was not a covention book. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

Wow. You just keep repeating yourself hoping it's true. Where was RMA "far fetched"? Do you think FF was selling well? There are considerably more substantiated facts pointing to a larger print run than you imply. Your constant refusal to accept anything but suggestions of a lower print is mind boggling.

 

Neither you nor RMA have presented any actual "fact".

 

The "fact" is there are only 92 copies of this book on the census even after 3.5 years, and a book that has consistently sold for a high dollar since its release.

 

The "fact" is that its high dollar value is partly due to its rarity, both in high grade, in the census, and its availability on the market.

 

The "fact" is that ASM sales were half then what they are now, so not many retailers were blowing up their orders to qualify for this variant.

 

The "fact" is that there are other high dollar moderns with comparable estimated print runs (500) that have even more slabbed copies accounted for than this one (wolverine 1, siege 3 campbell).

 

Those are the "facts".

 

Here now is what you and RMA have speculated about:

 

You have speculated that there is a warehouse full of copies of this book.

 

You have speculated that there are low census numbers only because people aren't bothering to slab this high dollar book.

 

You have speculated that marvel may some day sell "extra copies" of this book for $5.

 

You have speculated that marvel over-printed this book even in a down Spidey market because....well, just because. Contrary to your opinion on the matter, Marvel has, on many, many occasions, printed much less than 1000 copies of a variant. To suggest or state otherwise is pure nonsense.

 

I think that just about covers it. (thumbs u

 

-J.

I guess that must be a fact.

Which issues? Prove it.

 

Prove the SOP? See Valiant's post. Is an exception ever more likely than the standard?

 

No, of course not. Which is why this book and only a handful of other moderns consistently sell for major dollar signs. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Lazyboy]

Wow. You just keep repeating yourself hoping it's true. Where was RMA "far fetched"? Do you think FF was selling well? There are considerably more substantiated facts pointing to a larger print run than you imply. Your constant refusal to accept anything but suggestions of a lower print is mind boggling.

 

Neither you nor RMA have presented any actual "fact".

 

The "fact" is there are only 92 copies of this book on the census even after 3.5 years, and a book that has consistently sold for a high dollar since its release.

 

The "fact" is that its high dollar value is partly due to its rarity, both in high grade, in the census, and its availability on the market.

 

The "fact" is that ASM sales were half then what they are now, so not many retailers were blowing up their orders to qualify for this variant.

 

The "fact" is that there are other high dollar moderns with comparable estimated print runs (500) that have even more slabbed copies accounted for than this one (wolverine 1, siege 3 campbell).

 

Those are the "facts".

 

Here now is what you and RMA have speculated about:

 

You have speculated that there is a warehouse full of copies of this book.

 

You have speculated that there are low census numbers only because people aren't bothering to slab this high dollar book.

 

You have speculated that marvel may some day sell "extra copies" of this book for $5.

 

You have speculated that marvel over-printed this book even in a down Spidey market because....well, just because. Contrary to your opinion on the matter, Marvel has, on many, many occasions, printed much less than 1000 copies of a variant. To suggest or state otherwise is pure nonsense.

 

I think that just about covers it. (thumbs u

 

-J.

I guess that must be a fact.

Which issues? Prove it.

 

Prove the SOP? See Valiant's post. Is an exception ever more likely than the standard?

Oh, I see Jaydog bolded something, too. But I was specifically referring to the part I bolded in the post I chose to quote.