RockMyAmadeus Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 What an interesting turn this discussion has taken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 To get things back on track......has anyone seen any sales of note recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam I am Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) No sales, but this beauty will be sold in a few more days. Should set a new GPA high for a 5.5 http://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superhero/the-brave-and-the-bold-28-justice-league-of-america-dc-1960-cgc-fn-55-off-white-pages/a/7136-91316.s Edited May 25, 2015 by Sam I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumiho Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Yeah keepin an eye on this one as well http://ebay.com/itm/251969420401?nav=SEARCH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze johnny Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I like deferring to actual data. Crazy me. -J. Jaydog, even though you dissed my BB28 with claims of photography tricks, notice I did not take the bait. You only like to reference data when it works in your favor. While debating the value of some 10 cent DC keys I presented the CGC census data to back my point. In that case, when the data did not work in your favor, you dismissed it claiming something about it not being relevant. I've never "dissed" anybody's book. That makes all the differnce in the world in our approaches actually. I am not attempting to make people feel their books are "inferior" for any particular reason. There is a buyer for every book and budget. I alluded that the differences in the "appearances" of your book and the other one at auction could be the result of the scanner (again, not that anyone can divine the "page QUALITY" of a book from a picture). I actually complimented your book earlier in the thread. I suppose you missed that. And I don't recall dismissing any data points you provided. I don't need to do that. There is a counter data point for any one you can muster. That is basically the entire point. It's random and erratic. Hence, once again, why there is no consistent or quantifiable alleged "premium" that can be proven based solely on the so-called "PQ" that CGC decides to put on a label on any given day. (thumbs u -J. Jaydog, I recall seeing your copy of an FF 48 in a different thread (nice copy BTW). It was a White Pager and you commented that you bought it because the colors really popped. The fact that the colors popped is a reflection of the preservation. Going hand in hand with that is the fact that it was also a White Pager. A white pager = better preservation = other enhanced qualities = more attractive book = higher demand = higher price. I think you are a closet White Page lover ! Bob, this is not always the case. In general, page quality can give us insight into how the book was stored but I've seen books with cream to off white pq. where the colors on the cover make it impossible to guess what the quality of the pages are inside. Some Savannah Romance books are a good example of this- and a large number of Savannahs were not kept in the best places for preservation purposes. I think it's safe to say that the Savannahs with c-ow pq. were not the best preserved ones. And you know I'm not a fan of SA books with cream to ow pq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) I like deferring to actual data. Crazy me. -J. Jaydog, even though you dissed my BB28 with claims of photography tricks, notice I did not take the bait. You only like to reference data when it works in your favor. While debating the value of some 10 cent DC keys I presented the CGC census data to back my point. In that case, when the data did not work in your favor, you dismissed it claiming something about it not being relevant. I've never "dissed" anybody's book. That makes all the differnce in the world in our approaches actually. I am not attempting to make people feel their books are "inferior" for any particular reason. There is a buyer for every book and budget. I alluded that the differences in the "appearances" of your book and the other one at auction could be the result of the scanner (again, not that anyone can divine the "page QUALITY" of a book from a picture). I actually complimented your book earlier in the thread. I suppose you missed that. And I don't recall dismissing any data points you provided. I don't need to do that. There is a counter data point for any one you can muster. That is basically the entire point. It's random and erratic. Hence, once again, why there is no consistent or quantifiable alleged "premium" that can be proven based solely on the so-called "PQ" that CGC decides to put on a label on any given day. (thumbs u -J. Jaydog, I recall seeing your copy of an FF 48 in a different thread (nice copy BTW). It was a White Pager and you commented that you bought it because the colors really popped. The fact that the colors popped is a reflection of the preservation. Going hand in hand with that is the fact that it was also a White Pager. A white pager = better preservation = other enhanced qualities = more attractive book = higher demand = higher price. I think you are a closet White Page lover ! Bob, this is not always the case. In general, page quality can give us insight into how the book was stored but I've seen books with cream to off white pq. where the colors on the cover make it impossible to guess what the quality of the pages are inside. Some Savannah Romance books are a good example of this- and a large number of Savannahs were not kept in the best places for preservation purposes. I think it's safe to say that the Savannahs with c-ow pq. were not the best preserved ones. And you know I'm not a fan of SA books with cream to ow pq. There is an AF15 0.5 for sale right now on the boards that has Off-White to White pages. Hard to believe this book had "better preservation" given its overall state even though it has nice PQ. :shrug: *Note - this is not a reflection upon the seller or the book itself. Edited May 26, 2015 by rfoiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze johnny Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I like deferring to actual data. Crazy me. -J. Jaydog, even though you dissed my BB28 with claims of photography tricks, notice I did not take the bait. You only like to reference data when it works in your favor. While debating the value of some 10 cent DC keys I presented the CGC census data to back my point. In that case, when the data did not work in your favor, you dismissed it claiming something about it not being relevant. I've never "dissed" anybody's book. That makes all the differnce in the world in our approaches actually. I am not attempting to make people feel their books are "inferior" for any particular reason. There is a buyer for every book and budget. I alluded that the differences in the "appearances" of your book and the other one at auction could be the result of the scanner (again, not that anyone can divine the "page QUALITY" of a book from a picture). I actually complimented your book earlier in the thread. I suppose you missed that. And I don't recall dismissing any data points you provided. I don't need to do that. There is a counter data point for any one you can muster. That is basically the entire point. It's random and erratic. Hence, once again, why there is no consistent or quantifiable alleged "premium" that can be proven based solely on the so-called "PQ" that CGC decides to put on a label on any given day. (thumbs u -J. Jaydog, I recall seeing your copy of an FF 48 in a different thread (nice copy BTW). It was a White Pager and you commented that you bought it because the colors really popped. The fact that the colors popped is a reflection of the preservation. Going hand in hand with that is the fact that it was also a White Pager. A white pager = better preservation = other enhanced qualities = more attractive book = higher demand = higher price. I think you are a closet White Page lover ! Bob, this is not always the case. In general, page quality can give us insight into how the book was stored but I've seen books with cream to off white pq. where the colors on the cover make it impossible to guess what the quality of the pages are inside. Some Savannah Romance books are a good example of this- and a large number of Savannahs were not kept in the best places for preservation purposes. I think it's safe to say that the Savannahs with c-ow pq. were not the best preserved ones. And you know I'm not a fan of SA books with cream to ow pq. There is an AF15 0.5 for sale right now on the boards that has Off-White to White pages. Hard to believe this book had "better preservation" given its overall state even though it has nice PQ. :shrug: *Note - this is not a reflection upon the seller or the book itself. Excellent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Guys, you are taking my comments way out of context. Of course there are no absolutes. There are fugly White Pagers and there are nice presenting CR/OW books. No argument. Realize who I was talking to here, Jaydog, who thinks there is no upside, either in value or quality to a White Pager. I simply pointed out that a book he owned, and was proud of, was a White Pager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Personally I don't put a lot of stock into PQ, anything better than Cream/Off-White is good with me. I do see people charging more for Off-White and better pages. Personally I have paid more in some of those cases because I wanted the book or it presented well overall. My only concern is that PQ is very inconsistent and buyers should beware inflated values based solely on PQ. Just my opinion though. Lots of collectors out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I have some tough DC SA keys with "tan/cream" on the label that presents amazingly and that certainly did not sell for anything resembling a "discount". -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttfitz Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 As a disinterested observer here, it appears that Bob and others are arguing that, all else being equal, a better PQ will bring higher prices. I doubt that Jay would argue with this; however, his point seems to be that in practice, all else is never equal, and that looking at the total of the data doesn't show much support for the notion (sometimes the better PQ sells for more; sometimes it doesn't, no pattern seems to emerge). Or maybe I've got it all wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) As a disinterested observer here, it appears that Bob and others are arguing that, all else being equal, a better PQ will bring higher prices. I doubt that Jay would argue with this; however, his point seems to be that in practice, all else is never equal, and that looking at the total of the data doesn't show much support for the notion (sometimes the better PQ sells for more; sometimes it doesn't, no pattern seems to emerge). Or maybe I've got it all wrong... Regarding Jaydog, you have it all wrong. He is arguing that, statistically, PQ has no effect on the price. I'm bowing out here as we are ruining a perfectly good thread. Jaydog, do not pull me back in with some ridiculous comment. PLEASE. Let's just end it here. Whatever you say is correct, just stop. Edited May 26, 2015 by bomber-bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 As a disinterested observer here, it appears that Bob and others are arguing that, all else being equal, a better PQ will bring higher prices. I doubt that Jay would argue with this; however, his point seems to be that in practice, all else is never equal, and that looking at the total of the data doesn't show much support for the notion (sometimes the better PQ sells for more; sometimes it doesn't, no pattern seems to emerge). Or maybe I've got it all wrong... Actually that pretty much sums it up exactly. (thumbs u -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 As a disinterested observer here, it appears that Bob and others are arguing that, all else being equal, a better PQ will bring higher prices. I doubt that Jay would argue with this; however, his point seems to be that in practice, all else is never equal, and that looking at the total of the data doesn't show much support for the notion (sometimes the better PQ sells for more; sometimes it doesn't, no pattern seems to emerge). Or maybe I've got it all wrong... Actually that pretty much sums it up exactly. (thumbs u -J. Darn you Jaydog, I asked nicely, I even said PLEASE, why can't you just end it I said whatever you say is correct, you win, PQ don't mean squat, whatever you want to hear. At least give me the final word and Don't Reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessndx Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 As a disinterested observer here, it appears that Bob and others are arguing that, all else being equal, a better PQ will bring higher prices. I doubt that Jay would argue with this; however, his point seems to be that in practice, all else is never equal, and that looking at the total of the data doesn't show much support for the notion (sometimes the better PQ sells for more; sometimes it doesn't, no pattern seems to emerge). Or maybe I've got it all wrong... Regarding Jaydog, you have it all wrong. He is arguing that, statistically, PQ has no effect on the price. I'm bowing out here as we are ruining a perfectly good thread. Jaydog, do not pull me back in with some ridiculous comment. PLEASE. Let's just end it here. Whatever you say is correct, just stop. I don't want to light the proverbial fire here again, but I think that it's fairly obvious that PQ has an impact on SOME pricing with SOME people SOMETIMES. There's never going to be an absolute 100% anything. I can guarantee that if you look hard enough you'll find some examples of influenced pricing and uninfluenced pricing. It depends largely on availability and perceived scarcity as well as grade and a plethora of different factors that are somewhat difficult to predict. I've already stated FTR that I don't care about PQ when it comes to scarce and impossible to find stuff. Having said that, if I had a choice between several of the same comics with varying PQ, I'd opt for the one that presented best with the best PQ possible. But I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if I ended up with something in the CR/OW range with some extraordinary book (such as BB28). Would I pay an extreme premium for white pages? Once again it'd depend on the book and how much $ I'd be willing to part with for a minute alteration in color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordysnordy Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I like deferring to actual data. Crazy me. -J. Jaydog, even though you dissed my BB28 with claims of photography tricks, notice I did not take the bait. You only like to reference data when it works in your favor. While debating the value of some 10 cent DC keys I presented the CGC census data to back my point. In that case, when the data did not work in your favor, you dismissed it claiming something about it not being relevant. I've never "dissed" anybody's book. That makes all the differnce in the world in our approaches actually. I am not attempting to make people feel their books are "inferior" for any particular reason. There is a buyer for every book and budget. I alluded that the differences in the "appearances" of your book and the other one at auction could be the result of the scanner (again, not that anyone can divine the "page QUALITY" of a book from a picture). I actually complimented your book earlier in the thread. I suppose you missed that. And I don't recall dismissing any data points you provided. I don't need to do that. There is a counter data point for any one you can muster. That is basically the entire point. It's random and erratic. Hence, once again, why there is no consistent or quantifiable alleged "premium" that can be proven based solely on the so-called "PQ" that CGC decides to put on a label on any given day. (thumbs u -J. Jaydog, I recall seeing your copy of an FF 48 in a different thread (nice copy BTW). It was a White Pager and you commented that you bought it because the colors really popped. The fact that the colors popped is a reflection of the preservation. Going hand in hand with that is the fact that it was also a White Pager. A white pager = better preservation = other enhanced qualities = more attractive book = higher demand = higher price. I think you are a closet White Page lover ! Bob, this is not always the case. In general, page quality can give us insight into how the book was stored but I've seen books with cream to off white pq. where the colors on the cover make it impossible to guess what the quality of the pages are inside. Some Savannah Romance books are a good example of this- and a large number of Savannahs were not kept in the best places for preservation purposes. I think it's safe to say that the Savannahs with c-ow pq. were not the best preserved ones. And you know I'm not a fan of SA books with cream to ow pq. There is an AF15 0.5 for sale right now on the boards that has Off-White to White pages. Hard to believe this book had "better preservation" given its overall state even though it has nice PQ. :shrug: *Note - this is not a reflection upon the seller or the book itself. Haha that AF 15 0.5 is my book and I agree with you 100%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 There is an AF15 0.5 for sale right now on the boards that has Off-White to White pages. Hard to believe this book had "better preservation" given its overall state even though it has nice PQ. :shrug: *Note - this is not a reflection upon the seller or the book itself. Haha that AF 15 0.5 is my book and I agree with you 100%! Bob's reference to the "state of preservation" is not what you guys think it is. Take a 9.8, white paged Mile High book and tear half the cover and parts of several pages off and you get a 0.5 with white pages that is in an incredible "state of preservation" as the book is still nice and fresh. It has nothing to do with tears, creases, missing pieces, etc.,. The page quality question is really rather simple - books with white pages garner a premium over books with lesser quality pages because there are collectors that will pay more for a white-paged copy, all else being equal. There are no collectors that will pay more for a copy with lesser page quality, all else being equal. (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 There is an AF15 0.5 for sale right now on the boards that has Off-White to White pages. Hard to believe this book had "better preservation" given its overall state even though it has nice PQ. :shrug: *Note - this is not a reflection upon the seller or the book itself. Haha that AF 15 0.5 is my book and I agree with you 100%! Bob's reference to the "state of preservation" is not what you guys think it is. Take a 9.8, white paged Mile High book and tear half the cover and parts of several pages off and you get a 0.5 with white pages that is in an incredible "state of preservation" as the book is still nice and fresh. It has nothing to do with tears, creases, missing pieces, etc.,. The page quality question is really rather simple - books with white pages garner a premium over books with lesser quality pages because there are collectors that will pay more for a white-paged copy, all else being equal. There are no collectors that will pay more for a copy with lesser page quality, all else being equal. (thumbs u Except "all else" is never equal, and every collector has their own unique "deal breakers" and no one (other than the actual buyer) has any way of knowing what the deciding factor in a buying decision is or was on any given book. Hence why the conversation should begin and end with the statement "*I* will pay a 'premium' for a book simply because it says 'white pages' on the label", rather than the unsupported and purely speculative blanket statement that "There is a 'premium' for books that say 'white pages' on the label". Because there is none that is observed or provable with any consistency once the overall market at large is considered. It's all just speculation that is influenced by a person's own unique biases and preferences. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 ...influenced by a person's own unique biases and preferences. Exactly, now you understand why books with white pages command a premium! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 ...influenced by a person's own unique biases and preferences. Exactly, now you understand why books with white pages command a premium! ...except when they don't. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
