Jaydogrules Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 You are attempting to impose impossible and unrealistic criterion on the legitimate hard data, and absolutely none at all on those attempting to argue the counter point. Eh, no. You initially argued that 'all things being equal' the PQ doesn't matter and then went on to provide examples where 'all things were not equal'. Look man, I think you're wrong (again) but I'm not going to get sucked into a back and forth. The nicer the book the stronger the price it fetches. Anybody who will argue that, well... Just as long as you understand that you are not actually disagreeing with "me" you are disagreeing with data and facts. Denial just ain't a river, as it were. To each his own. And actually, I never once said "all things being equal". Somebody else said that. I said that all things are never equal. Hence why, once again, your arguments fail utterly and completely. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showcase22gr1959 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential This: or that: This: or Bob's BB28: This: or that: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential Is this a trick question? Everybody knows books with better page quality sell for more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential Is this a trick question? Everybody knows books with better page quality sell for more! ...except when they don't. (thumbs u AF 15, 7.5: 9/2/13- "OW" on the label- $55,000 11/5/13- "Cr/OW" on the label- $62,000 Somebody paid $7k more for a book with supposedly "lesser 'PQ'" on the label just a couple of months after the other book sold. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessndx Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 I think everyone has made salient and interesting points regarding the PQ issue. I believe it will continue to be hotly debated as long as there are collectors who are willing to pay for comics. I don't necessarily subscribe to the PQ trumps all viewpoint, nor do I think that it's completely unrelated to sales. It is obvious that pricing depends on a number of different factors including availability, desire, presentation, PQ, etc. My personal experience dictates that some of these higher $ "lesser" PQ sales that proceed a "higher" PQ sale may be coinicidence, or might even be a case of eager buyers that missed an ealier opportunity. I know that's happened to me at least twice. I missed out on some auction or BIN that I wanted, and the next opportunity to purchase a similar item I snapped it up. In fact, I had missed out on something with OW/W that I really had in my sights....and lost to a higher bidder. I was determined to not let that next candidate in same grade escape and grabbed a CR/OW instead. I ended up paying more than the prior auction but was happy I had since the GPA went north afterwards. We can clearly debate this issue until the end of time. I'd PREFER pristine, perfect comics with only white pages in GEM MINT condition. But I'm realistic, when I'm trying to purchase a comic that's 50+ years old I don't expect that it's going to have those characteristics...and when they do I expect to pay a premium. I'm perfectly content, as I suspect most folks are, to own a piece of history regardless of the perceived color of the page (which varies with grader and time). Give me a CREAMY BB28 anyday. And FTR, if you wait around long enough....NONE of the comics that have WHITE PQ will CONTINUE to exhibit WHITE PQ ITF. That is unless you have a perfect vaccuum chamber and never take out the comic again. White today is tan tomorrow given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I think everyone has made salient and interesting points regarding the PQ issue. I believe it will continue to be hotly debated as long as there are collectors who are willing to pay for comics. I don't necessarily subscribe to the PQ trumps all viewpoint, nor do I think that it's completely unrelated to sales. It is obvious that pricing depends on a number of different factors including availability, desire, presentation, PQ, etc. My personal experience dictates that some of these higher $ "lesser" PQ sales that proceed a "higher" PQ sale may be coinicidence, or might even be a case of eager buyers that missed an ealier opportunity. I know that's happened to me at least twice. I missed out on some auction or BIN that I wanted, and the next opportunity to purchase a similar item I snapped it up. In fact, I had missed out on something with OW/W that I really had in my sights....and lost to a higher bidder. I was determined to not let that next candidate in same grade escape and grabbed a CR/OW instead. I ended up paying more than the prior auction but was happy I had since the GPA went north afterwards. We can clearly debate this issue until the end of time. I'd PREFER pristine, perfect comics with only white pages in GEM MINT condition. But I'm realistic, when I'm trying to purchase a comic that's 50+ years old I don't expect that it's going to have those characteristics...and when they do I expect to pay a premium. I'm perfectly content, as I suspect most folks are, to own a piece of history regardless of the perceived color of the page (which varies with grader and time). Give me a CREAMY BB28 anyday. And FTR, if you wait around long enough....NONE of the comics that have WHITE PQ will CONTINUE to exhibit WHITE PQ ITF. That is unless you have a perfect vaccuum chamber and never take out the comic again. White today is tan tomorrow given time. Yup. (thumbs u -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunsicker Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I think everyone has made salient and interesting points regarding the PQ issue. I believe it will continue to be hotly debated as long as there are collectors who are willing to pay for comics. I don't necessarily subscribe to the PQ trumps all viewpoint, nor do I think that it's completely unrelated to sales. It is obvious that pricing depends on a number of different factors including availability, desire, presentation, PQ, etc. My personal experience dictates that some of these higher $ "lesser" PQ sales that proceed a "higher" PQ sale may be coinicidence, or might even be a case of eager buyers that missed an ealier opportunity. I know that's happened to me at least twice. I missed out on some auction or BIN that I wanted, and the next opportunity to purchase a similar item I snapped it up. In fact, I had missed out on something with OW/W that I really had in my sights....and lost to a higher bidder. I was determined to not let that next candidate in same grade escape and grabbed a CR/OW instead. I ended up paying more than the prior auction but was happy I had since the GPA went north afterwards. We can clearly debate this issue until the end of time. I'd PREFER pristine, perfect comics with only white pages in GEM MINT condition. But I'm realistic, when I'm trying to purchase a comic that's 50+ years old I don't expect that it's going to have those characteristics...and when they do I expect to pay a premium. I'm perfectly content, as I suspect most folks are, to own a piece of history regardless of the perceived color of the page (which varies with grader and time). Give me a CREAMY BB28 anyday. And FTR, if you wait around long enough....NONE of the comics that have WHITE PQ will CONTINUE to exhibit WHITE PQ ITF. That is unless you have a perfect vaccuum chamber and never take out the comic again. White today is tan tomorrow given time. Of course that cream to off-white will have degraded to slightly brittle or brittle in that same amount of time, so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I think everyone has made salient and interesting points regarding the PQ issue. I believe it will continue to be hotly debated as long as there are collectors who are willing to pay for comics. I don't necessarily subscribe to the PQ trumps all viewpoint, nor do I think that it's completely unrelated to sales. It is obvious that pricing depends on a number of different factors including availability, desire, presentation, PQ, etc. My personal experience dictates that some of these higher $ "lesser" PQ sales that proceed a "higher" PQ sale may be coinicidence, or might even be a case of eager buyers that missed an ealier opportunity. I know that's happened to me at least twice. I missed out on some auction or BIN that I wanted, and the next opportunity to purchase a similar item I snapped it up. In fact, I had missed out on something with OW/W that I really had in my sights....and lost to a higher bidder. I was determined to not let that next candidate in same grade escape and grabbed a CR/OW instead. I ended up paying more than the prior auction but was happy I had since the GPA went north afterwards. We can clearly debate this issue until the end of time. I'd PREFER pristine, perfect comics with only white pages in GEM MINT condition. But I'm realistic, when I'm trying to purchase a comic that's 50+ years old I don't expect that it's going to have those characteristics...and when they do I expect to pay a premium. I'm perfectly content, as I suspect most folks are, to own a piece of history regardless of the perceived color of the page (which varies with grader and time). Give me a CREAMY BB28 anyday. And FTR, if you wait around long enough....NONE of the comics that have WHITE PQ will CONTINUE to exhibit WHITE PQ ITF. That is unless you have a perfect vaccuum chamber and never take out the comic again. White today is tan tomorrow given time. Of course that cream to off-white will have degraded to slightly brittle or brittle in that same amount of time, so there's that. That depends on who is grading the book that day, and there probably *still* won't be any difference in prices. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttfitz Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential This: or that: I'd probably prefer the first one, without the writing on the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showcase22gr1959 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential Is this a trick question? Everybody knows books with better page quality sell for more! No trick...you know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessndx Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential This: or that: I'd probably prefer the first one, without the writing on the cover. Ya' know, I'd have to +1 that as well. Writing sucks (especially someone's name). I'd take a lower grade lower PQ with NO writing or marks on the book front or back. Is there some statistical doo-hickey that can predict that? Probably not, but it is my personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showcase22gr1959 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential This: or that: I'd probably prefer the first one, without the writing on the cover. How about this: Edited May 27, 2015 by showcase22gr1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman399 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential This: or that: I'd probably prefer the first one, without the writing on the cover. How about this: Is it for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 If auction at the same time, which books will sell for more? Assuming no upgrade potential This: or that: I'd probably prefer the first one, without the writing on the cover. How about this: Is it for sale Um where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roulette44 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 jaydog, thanks for proving my point. it's been said by everyone, no need to repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 the only way a definitive conclusion can be drawn, is for the variables to be consistent, and there be some control, correct? I've given multiple examples of where near identical books visually, with differing PQ, have sold at the same time (practically) , at the same venue, by the same vendor (me)... most recently, flash 105 (both cgc 5.5)...a cr/ow for 1995 and an ow for 2095. the ow sold for more, first, the cr/ow sold for less , second, all within the "same" venue, etc, with virtually all variables consistent... another example was a Strange tales 110, cgc 5.0 ...one with white pages, one with OW...both sold at same venue, the W page first and for $200 more...the ow second, for $200 less... in SDCC in 2010 I believe (before the GL movie), I did this with SC 22 about 5 times the same weekend....I would put 2 copies out, at the same time, same grade, differing pq being the only real diff...and in all 5 instances, the higher pq sold first, and for more... the GPA quoted data by Jaydog comes with unknown variables and no control, and thus, can't be truly "comparable" as evidenced by the lack of support to a consistent statement of preference by the majority of folks discussing... seems reasonable to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 :shrug: I just want to know where I can buy the 7.5 SC 22 with White pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 :shrug: I just want to know where I can buy the 7.5 SC 22 with White pages. didn't/doesn't peewee own it and didn't I sell it to him (I recall him buying a 7.5 from me, but can't recall pq on it...if I had of had multiple 7.5's , I definitely would have remembered the pq ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 :shrug: I just want to know where I can buy the 7.5 SC 22 with White pages. didn't/doesn't peewee own it and didn't I sell it to him (I recall him buying a 7.5 from me, but can't recall pq on it...if I had of had multiple 7.5's , I definitely would have remembered the pq ) I don't know why, but posting a: seems appropriate.... It is a pretty book! Must own it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) the only way a definitive conclusion can be drawn, is for the variables to be consistent, and there be some control, correct? I've given multiple examples of where near identical books visually, with differing PQ, have sold at the same time (practically) , at the same venue, by the same vendor (me)... most recently, flash 105 (both cgc 5.5)...a cr/ow for 1995 and an ow for 2095. the ow sold for more, first, the cr/ow sold for less , second, all within the "same" venue, etc, with virtually all variables consistent... another example was a Strange tales 110, cgc 5.0 ...one with white pages, one with OW...both sold at same venue, the W page first and for $200 more...the ow second, for $200 less... in SDCC in 2010 I believe (before the GL movie), I did this with SC 22 about 5 times the same weekend....I would put 2 copies out, at the same time, same grade, differing pq being the only real diff...and in all 5 instances, the higher pq sold first, and for more... the GPA quoted data by Jaydog comes with unknown variables and no control, and thus, can't be truly "comparable" as evidenced by the lack of support to a consistent statement of preference by the majority of folks discussing... seems reasonable to me ..... many GPA examples are auction oriented. This makes it hard to determine what a winning bidder would have been willing to pay.... so this would make that type of data difficult to link to an individual's preference. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u Edited May 28, 2015 by jimjum12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
