Brave & Bold #28: Speculation on future pricing 4 4

[Aasparky1000]

so anything new going on with this book? (thumbs u

[Kevin76]

so anything new going on with this book? (thumbs u

Other than that I can't afford a NM copy? No.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The prices on these books just continue to astonish me.

 

In the late 90's on eBay, you could buy a nice mid-grade B&B #28 for $400-$600.

[gumiho]

The prices on these books just continue to astonish me.

 

In the late 90's on eBay, you could buy a nice mid-grade B&B #28 for $400-$600.

 

Hmmm.. I think it is safe to say... EVERY SUPERHERO book just continues to amaze me now in regards to prices!

[ttfitz]

The prices on these books just continue to astonish me.

 

In the late 90's on eBay, you could buy a nice mid-grade B&B #28 for $400-$600.

 

Hmmm.. I think it is safe to say... EVERY SUPERHERO book just continues to amaze me now in regards to prices!

 

This is particularly troublesome when it comes to books I have not yet acquired.

[VintageComics]

The prices on these books just continue to astonish me.

 

In the late 90's on eBay, you could buy a nice mid-grade B&B #28 for $400-$600.

 

Hmmm.. I think it is safe to say... EVERY SUPERHERO book just continues to amaze me now in regards to prices!

 

Naw, just the ones that have movies in production.

[roulette44]

Guys, you are taking my comments way out of context. Of course there are no absolutes. There are fugly White Pagers and there are nice presenting CR/OW books. No argument. Realize who I was talking to here, Jaydog, who thinks there is no upside, either in value or quality to a White Pager. I simply pointed out that a book he owned, and was proud of, was a White Pager.

 

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants).

 

what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own.

 

That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period.

 

And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

 

Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us.

 

cheers

joey

 

[Jaydogrules]

Guys, you are taking my comments way out of context. Of course there are no absolutes. There are fugly White Pagers and there are nice presenting CR/OW books. No argument. Realize who I was talking to here, Jaydog, who thinks there is no upside, either in value or quality to a White Pager. I simply pointed out that a book he owned, and was proud of, was a White Pager.

 

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants).

 

what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own.

 

That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period.

 

And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

 

Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us.

 

cheers

joey

 

...except when they don't and "all else" is never equal, and yes that makes all the difference in the world in fact.

 

What you are basically saying is the the "PQ" on the label is the #1 consideration for everybody when making a buying decision.

 

Sorry, but that is both presumptuous and flat out wrong.

 

Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ?

 

Just say the word. I'm ready.

 

-J.

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

Guys, you are taking my comments way out of context. Of course there are no absolutes. There are fugly White Pagers and there are nice presenting CR/OW books. No argument. Realize who I was talking to here, Jaydog, who thinks there is no upside, either in value or quality to a White Pager. I simply pointed out that a book he owned, and was proud of, was a White Pager.

 

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants).

 

what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own.

 

That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period.

 

And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

 

Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us.

 

cheers

joey

 

...except when they don't and "all else" is never equal, and yes that makes all the difference in the world in fact.

 

What you are basically saying is the the "PQ" on the label is the #1 consideration for everybody when making a buying decision.

 

Sorry, but that is both presumptuous and flat out wrong.

 

Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ?

 

Just say the word. I'm ready.

 

-J.

 

 

Jaydog, what exactly is your modus operandi here? While I think you are basically an avid collector and good guy, you are starting to come across as a raving maniac. I just don't think anyone concurs with your observations, yet you keep badgering. What are you trying to accomplish ? I have already conceded. You win. YOU WIN. Now, can we all go back to playing nice ?

Edited May 27, 2015 by bomber-bob

[Jaydogrules]

Guys, you are taking my comments way out of context. Of course there are no absolutes. There are fugly White Pagers and there are nice presenting CR/OW books. No argument. Realize who I was talking to here, Jaydog, who thinks there is no upside, either in value or quality to a White Pager. I simply pointed out that a book he owned, and was proud of, was a White Pager.

 

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants).

 

what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own.

 

That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period.

 

And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

 

Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us.

 

cheers

joey

 

...except when they don't and "all else" is never equal, and yes that makes all the difference in the world in fact.

 

What you are basically saying is the the "PQ" on the label is the #1 consideration for everybody when making a buying decision.

 

Sorry, but that is both presumptuous and flat out wrong.

 

Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ?

 

Just say the word. I'm ready.

 

-J.

 

 

Jaydog, what exactly is your modus operandi here? While I think you are basically an avid collector and good guy, you are starting to come across as a raving maniac. I just don't think anyone concurs with your observations, yet you keep badgering. What are you trying to accomplish ? I have already conceded. You win. YOU WIN. Now, can we all go back to playing nice ?

 

Again, I have no MO, and I don't need anyone to "concur" with me. The data concurs with me and that is good enough for me. (thumbs u

 

My only quibble is with some of the broad, grand, sweeping statements that continue to be made on the subject, that are unsupported by actual sales trends.

 

-J.

 

PS: I always play nice.

 

 

[Iceman399]

Guys, you are taking my comments way out of context. Of course there are no absolutes. There are fugly White Pagers and there are nice presenting CR/OW books. No argument. Realize who I was talking to here, Jaydog, who thinks there is no upside, either in value or quality to a White Pager. I simply pointed out that a book he owned, and was proud of, was a White Pager.

 

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants).

 

what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own.

 

That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period.

 

And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

 

Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us.

 

cheers

joey

 

...except when they don't and "all else" is never equal, and yes that makes all the difference in the world in fact.

 

What you are basically saying is the the "PQ" on the label is the #1 consideration for everybody when making a buying decision.

 

Sorry, but that is both presumptuous and flat out wrong.

 

Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ?

 

Just say the word. I'm ready.

 

-J.

 

 

Jaydog, what exactly is your modus operandi here? While I think you are basically an avid collector and good guy, you are starting to come across as a raving maniac. I just don't think anyone concurs with your observations, yet you keep badgering. What are you trying to accomplish ? I have already conceded. You win. YOU WIN. Now, can we all go back to playing nice ?

 

Again, I have no MO, and I don't need anyone to "concur" with me. The data concurs with me and that is good enough for me. (thumbs u

 

My only quibble is with some of the broad, grand, sweeping statements that continue to be made on the subject, that are unsupported by actual sales trends.

 

-J.

 

PS: I always play nice.

 

 

There is no grading factor that matters, for every piece of sales data there will be something that refutes it. Tape, chipping, writing, pq, wrap.

 

You have been given sales data from several dealers who had two almost identical books (we are talking about things that can't be identical) in which the one with a better PQ either sold faster or at a premium.

 

Of course there will be exceptions. Life has exceptions. Y is not a vowel, EXCEPT when it is.

All materials can go through the state changes (solid, liquid, gas)...well EXCEPT for things like Dry ice.

 

Now shall we take data and skew it to look how we want it to? Sure the average person has 1 ovary. Does that mean if you cut an individual up you will find only 1? Nope but there are STATS to back up a claim.

[Jaydogrules]

Guys, you are taking my comments way out of context. Of course there are no absolutes. There are fugly White Pagers and there are nice presenting CR/OW books. No argument. Realize who I was talking to here, Jaydog, who thinks there is no upside, either in value or quality to a White Pager. I simply pointed out that a book he owned, and was proud of, was a White Pager.

 

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants).

 

what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own.

 

That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period.

 

And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

 

Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us.

 

cheers

joey

 

...except when they don't and "all else" is never equal, and yes that makes all the difference in the world in fact.

 

What you are basically saying is the the "PQ" on the label is the #1 consideration for everybody when making a buying decision.

 

Sorry, but that is both presumptuous and flat out wrong.

 

Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ?

 

Just say the word. I'm ready.

 

-J.

 

 

Jaydog, what exactly is your modus operandi here? While I think you are basically an avid collector and good guy, you are starting to come across as a raving maniac. I just don't think anyone concurs with your observations, yet you keep badgering. What are you trying to accomplish ? I have already conceded. You win. YOU WIN. Now, can we all go back to playing nice ?

 

Again, I have no MO, and I don't need anyone to "concur" with me. The data concurs with me and that is good enough for me. (thumbs u

 

My only quibble is with some of the broad, grand, sweeping statements that continue to be made on the subject, that are unsupported by actual sales trends.

 

-J.

 

PS: I always play nice.

 

 

There is no grading factor that matters, for every piece of sales data there will be something that refutes it. Tape, chipping, writing, pq, wrap.

 

You have been given sales data from several dealers who had two almost identical books (we are talking about things that can't be identical) in which the one with a better PQ either sold faster or at a premium.

 

Of course there will be exceptions. Life has exceptions. Y is not a vowel, EXCEPT when it is.

All materials can go through the state changes (solid, liquid, gas)...well EXCEPT for things like Dry ice.

 

Now shall we take data and skew it to look how we want it to? Sure the average person has 1 ovary. Does that mean if you cut an individual up you will find only 1? Nope but there are STATS to back up a claim.

 

I give little credence to anecdotal, unreported dealer reports.

 

Talk about the potential for skewing data.

 

There are far, far more than one or two examples in the public domain for B & B 28 alone where the "PQ" on the label didn't matter a lick.

 

In fact there are more examples where it did not seem to make a difference than when it did.

 

Not that anyone would know either way, since no one other than the actual buyer can know what caused him to make his final buying decision.

 

Final sales prices are all over the map when it comes to the "PQ" on the label. A theory that is random and inconsistent and impossible to quantify cannot be used to establish anything.

 

-J.

 

 

[MusterMark]

I used to enjoy this thread.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

PS: I always play nice.

 

 

Since when....?

 

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

 

PS: I always play nice.

 

 

Since when....?

 

 

 

 

-J.

[roulette44]

 

Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ?

 

 

 

Let's see it, i'm all about the data.

[drbanner]

.....but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

(thumbs u

 

When you have dealers saying they get more for copies with better page quality and collectors saying they'll pay more for copies with better page quality and the fact that not a single collector would pay more for a copy with lower page quality, the matter is settled.

 

So it's just silly-season now...Jaydog vs. the world and he ain't backing down no way, no how, no matter what!

 

[Kevin76]

.....but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

(thumbs u

 

When you have dealers saying they get more for copies with better page quality and collectors saying they'll pay more for copies with better page quality and the fact that not a single collector would pay more for a copy with lower page quality, the matter is settled.

 

So it's just silly-season now...Jaydog vs. the world and he ain't backing down no way, no how, no matter what!

 

I actually passed on a 5.5 and 6.0 when I was buying my BB 28 5.0 because I didn't want the cream pages, I downgraded for better PQ. Yes PQ does make a difference in terms of a buying decision.

[Jaydogrules]

.....but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

(thumbs u

 

When you have dealers saying they get more for copies with better page quality and collectors saying they'll pay more for copies with better page quality and the fact that not a single collector would pay more for a copy with lower page quality, the matter is settled.

 

So it's just silly-season now...Jaydog vs. the world and he ain't backing down no way, no how, no matter what!

 

The extent of the wrongness of your unsupported, conclusory statemenets is truly mind boggling.

 

So because Joey requested it, here is some of what has actually happened:

 

Grade: 2.0

 

4/16/14- "Brittle" on the label- $1300

 

9/14/14/14- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1300

 

1/14/2015- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1381

 

No difference in price based on the so-called "PQ" on the label for even a book with "Brittle pages" on the label that sold nine months earlier than the book with "Cr/OW" on the label.

 

 

Grade: 2.5

 

9/24/13- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1300

 

11/17/13- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1325

 

12/22/13- "OW/W" on the label- $1250

 

The book with the allegedly "better 'PQ'" on the label appears to have under-performed two other books that sold as much as three months earlier.

 

 

Grade: 3.0

 

 

3/26/15- "OW/W" on the label- $1880

 

4/29/15- "OW" on the label- $2330

 

A book with supposedly "lesser 'PQ'" on the label sells for nearly $500 more just a month later.

 

 

Grade: 3.5

 

9/22/13- "OW" on the label- $1788

 

10/15/2013- "Cr/OW" on the label- $2250

 

Somebody paid nearly $500 more for a book with allegedly "lesser 'PQ'" on the label just three weeks later.

 

 

Grade: 4.0

 

8/4/2013- "White" on the label- $2076

 

8/18/2013- "Cr/OW" on the label- $2749

 

9/9/13- "Cream" on the label- $2565

 

12/5/13- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1950

 

A book with "Cr/OW" on the label sells for $700 more than a book with "White" on the label just two weeks earlier, and a "Cream" page books sells for $500 more. Another book with "Cr/OW" on the label sells for essentially the same as the "White" pages book did four months earlier. "PQ" relative to pricing is all over the map in this grade.

 

 

 

Grade 4.5:

 

3/4/15- "Cr/OW" on the label- $3500

 

3/27/15- "LT/OW" on the label- $4500

 

A book with supposedly "lesser 'PQ'" on the label sells for $1000 more less than three weeks later.

 

 

Grade 6.5:

 

3/23/14- "OW" on the label- $8500

 

8/7/14- "OW/W" on the label- $7170

 

A book with supposedly "better 'PQ'" on the label appears to under-perform another book that sold five months earlier.

 

 

That's seven different grades, over a two year period, and nearly two dozen examples where the so-called "PQ" that CGC decided to put on a label had absolutely no apparent effect on pricing. If anything, this data would ironically suggest that people pay *more* for books with "lesser 'PQ'" on the label. But I am not making such an argument. To do so would be ridiculous.

 

As about as ridiculous as it would be for someone to say that "everyone, always" pays a premium based solely on the "PQ" on the label. The cumulative publicly available sales data utterly contradicts such a notion. Maybe "some people" have their head wrapped around the completely arbitrary, fickle and unverifiable "PQ" designations CGC puts on a label, but clearly, many, many people do not. Hence we see no "premiums" or "discounts" either way. And as it should be.

 

Mic drop.

 

-J.

 

 

[jimjum12]

.....but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality.

(thumbs u

 

When you have dealers saying they get more for copies with better page quality and collectors saying they'll pay more for copies with better page quality and the fact that not a single collector would pay more for a copy with lower page quality, the matter is settled.

 

So it's just silly-season now...Jaydog vs. the world and he ain't backing down no way, no how, no matter what!

 

The extent of the wrongness of your unsupported, conclusory statemenets is truly mind boggling.

 

So because Joey requested it, here is some of what has actually happened:

 

Grade: 2.0

 

4/16/14- "Brittle" on the label- $1300

 

9/14/14/14- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1300

 

1/14/2015- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1381

 

No difference in price based on the so-called "PQ" on the label for even a book with "Brittle pages" on the label that sold nine months earlier than the book with "Cr/OW" on the label.

 

 

Grade: 2.5

 

9/24/13- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1300

 

11/17/13- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1325

 

12/22/13- "OW/W" on the label- $1250

 

The book with the allegedly "better 'PQ'" on the label appears to have under-performed two other books that sold as much as three months earlier.

 

 

Grade: 3.0

 

 

3/26/15- "OW/W" on the label- $1880

 

4/29/15- "OW" on the label- $2330

 

A book with supposedly "lesser 'PQ'" on the label sells for nearly $500 more just a month later.

 

 

Grade: 3.5

 

9/22/13- "OW" on the label- $1788

 

10/15/2013- "Cr/OW" on the label- $2250

 

Somebody paid nearly $500 more for a book with allegedly "lesser 'PQ'" on the label just three weeks later.

 

 

Grade: 4.0

 

8/4/2013- "White" on the label- $2076

 

8/18/2013- "Cr/OW" on the label- $2749

 

9/9/13- "Cream" on the label- $2565

 

12/5/13- "Cr/OW" on the label- $1950

 

A book with "Cr/OW" on the label sells for $700 more than a book with "White" on the label just two weeks earlier, and a "Cream" page books sells for $500 more. Another book with "Cr/OW" on the label sells for essentially the same as the "White" pages book did four months earlier. "PQ" relative to pricing is all over the map in this grade.

 

 

 

Grade 4.5:

 

3/4/15- "Cr/OW" on the label- $3500

 

3/27/15- "LT/OW" on the label- $4500

 

A book with supposedly "lesser 'PQ'" on the label sells for $1000 more less than three weeks later.

 

 

Grade 6.5:

 

3/23/14- "OW" on the label- $8500

 

8/7/14- "OW/W" on the label- $7170

 

A book with supposedly "better 'PQ'" on the label appears to under-perform another book that sold five months earlier.

 

 

That's seven different grades, over a two year period, and nearly two dozen examples where the so-called "PQ" that CGC decided to put on a label had absolutely no apparent effect on pricing. If anything, this data would ironically suggest that people pay *more* for books with "lesser 'PQ'" on the label. But I am not making such an argument. To do so would be ridiculous.

 

As about as ridiculous as it would be for someone to say that "everyone, always" pays a premium based solely on the "PQ" on the label. The cumulative publicly available sales data utterly contradicts such a notion. Maybe "some people" have their head wrapped around the completely arbitrary, fickle and unverifiable "PQ" designations CGC puts on a label, but clearly, many, many people do not. Hence we see no "premiums" or "discounts" either way. And as it should be.

 

Mic drop.

 

-J.

 

 

JD's stance is not as off base as some would have it. PQ is only one factor and it's impact on a final price is contingent with other factors such as eye appeal. Crunching numbers will not automatically provide the answer to such a subjective concern. PQ is ultimately going to be part of the larger "buy the book and not the label" mentality. It will not, by itself, be the "silver bullet". GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u