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Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay
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Started by fastballspecial,

18,816 posts in this topic

RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

Wait I thought first appearances had to occur within a story? ;)

 

It is a story.

 

(shrug)

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6433136

 

So it's a preview! Nice.

 

No.

 

OK so is it an unpublished story? I'm just not sure why this newsletter qualifies as a first appearance while others do not. I though newsletters can't be first appearances or does the artist/writer have to state that it is within his own newsletter for it to count? Does the newsletter have to be promoted a certain way for it to count as a first? I have read a lot of posts over the years where people claim that collecting newsletter, previews, pamphlets and other non-comic format material is frivolous because they shouldn't be considered first appearances and yet no one is complaining about this company newsletter as a first. I wonder why.

 

I believe this is a little different because NEC acknowledges and promotes the first appearance to be in the newsletter instead of the comic. Not that it should matter to the reader. But according to them, it is

We are splitting hairs here, but I think the big difference is this wasn't marketing material for a comic, i.e. buy the Tick comic, here's a taste. The Tick was a feature that regularly appeared in the newsletter and only later got his own series, and this volume marks the beginning of the Tick story.

Well if the publisher of the book acknowledges it to be a 1st appearance, what are we arguing?

 

The publisher doesn't need to acknowledge anything with regards to what is a first appearance. It's nice that they do, but that opens up cans of worms that aren't necessary to be opened.

 

Simple prima facie evidence, here:

 

Is the first published depiction/appearance of the character in sequential art, yes/no?

 

And, is that sequential art an original, stand-alone story (rather than preview material intended to be published elsewhere, usually in the very near future), yes/no?

 

If yes to both, it's the "real first appearance."

 

If no to either, it's not.

 

If Bane's first appearance ever had been on a box of Captain Crunch cereal, that wouldn't have been his first appearance. If, however, on the BACK of the box, there's sequential art (that is, a STORY) depicting Bane, then that would, indeed, be his first appearance.

 

That's why the first appearance of Harley Quinn isn't BA Adventures #12. It's her first comic book appearance.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

If the story is original, yes. If not, no. The nature of a "preview" almost universally means that it's material intended to be printed elsewhere.

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Bronty

Bronty

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I think its pretty well established that 'gook is NOT the first app of the turtles.

 

2c

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GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

Posted
Posted

 

If the story is original, yes. If not, no. The nature of a "preview" almost universally means that it's material intended to be printed elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure that the Damage Control preview in Marvel Age Annual #4 is not excerpts from the book, but it's been a while since I read it. I do remember that the Wolverine preview is sort of a recap of what had been happening with the character in X-Men, so it's not exactly a story, although the art is original.

 

A good example of a legit first appearance in a preview is Lazarus.

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted
There's too much meat in this thread.

:sick:*

 

 

*not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

please don't make fun of my excess of girth. do you think it's fun being too big and being told i am too wide for the backdoor of my wife's hatchback?

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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

I think its pretty well established that 'gook is NOT the first app of the turtles.

 

2c

I always found it odd that people think it is. This is not because I don't think ads can be firsts. I'm not really sure what month Gobbledygook 1 was published in but the promotional add on the back says on sale now. Does that mean that Gobbledygook 1 came out in May of 1984, the same month as TMNT1? I'm going with this as the firsts Turtles appearance then...

 

Comic%20Buyers%20545%20First%20TMNT_zpsxuyfjacz.jpg

Edited by MrWeen
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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted
Did anyone (that's interested that is) see this? Not a comic, but it is the 1st appearance of The Tick.

 

Time to go look for my copies

 

Wait I thought first appearances had to occur within a story? ;)

 

It is a story.

 

(shrug)

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6433136

 

So it's a preview! Nice.

 

No.

 

OK so is it an unpublished story?

 

No. It is clearly published, as NEC Newsletter #14.

 

I'm just not sure why this newsletter qualifies as a first appearance while others do not.

 

Because it's an original story, written and drawn for NEC Newsletter #14.

 

I though newsletters can't be first appearances

 

According to whom?

 

or does the artist/writer have to state that it is within his own newsletter for it to count?

 

No. That would be an odd criterion. And Ben Edlund didn't publish NEC Newsletter #14...NEC did.

 

Does the newsletter have to be promoted a certain way for it to count as a first?

 

No.

 

I have read a lot of posts over the years where people claim that collecting newsletter, previews, pamphlets and other non-comic format material is frivolous because they shouldn't be considered first appearances

 

Not correct. The appearance has to be in sequential art (that is, TELLS A STORY), that is not intended to be "officially printed" in another publication.

 

It doesn't matter if it was printed in a comic book, a newsletter, Previews, the back of a Pop-Tarts box, or a roll of toilet paper. It simply has to be sequential art that isn't intended to be printed somewhere else.

 

If Previews contained an ORIGINAL STORY that had a first appearance that wasn't intended for, nor printed in, another publication as PART of a "preview", then that would be an official first appearance.

 

That's why the first appearance of "The Walking Dead" is NOT Capes #1 or Agents #6, both of which only contain PREVIEW PAGES of The Walking Dead #1, but why NEC Newsletter #14 IS the first appearance of the Tick.

 

If it was just pinups of the Tick, character studies, or somesuch, you'd have a valid point.

 

But it's not.

 

You're still trying to claim that ANY published depiction of a character, no matter where it appears, no matter HOW it appears, should be considered the "first appearance", which is contrary to the entire history of comics fandom.

 

and yet no one is complaining about this company newsletter as a first. I wonder why.

 

Well, clearly it's because anyone who says it's a story has a warehouse full and is trying to manipulate the market.

 

Orrrr....

 

The FORMAT of the appearance doesn't matter, provided it's in sequential art form.

 

Look at the thread that was linked. This is NOT a "preview" of a story that appeared, or even was intended to appear, elsewhere. It is an original story, written and drawn for this newsletter. It is not an "unpublished story", it was published in NEC Newsletter #14. NEC was and is a PUBLISHER of comic books (not that one needs to be a publisher, but still.)

 

 

"Not correct. The appearance has to be in sequential art (that is, TELLS A STORY), that is not intended to be "officially printed" in another publication."

 

I appreciate your excellent response format and always have but that is where my appreciation ends. The bulk of your response centers around your point above. The problem is, you just made this fact up. I can find no definition of first appearance that says the appearance has to tell a story sequentially that isn't intended to be officially printed.

 

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted

 

I think its pretty well established that 'gook is NOT the first app of the turtles.

 

2c

I'm not really sure what month Gobbledygook 1 was published

 

It really wasn't published.

 

Take a good look at the cover.

 

No cover price. Not sold. Handed out to a few friends and such.

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted

 

I appreciate your excellent response format and always have but that is where my appreciation ends. The bulk of your response centers around your point above. The problem is, you just made this fact up. I can find no definition of first appearance that says the appearance has to tell a story sequentially that isn't intended to be officially printed.

 

You're right, there's no official basis for that at all. It does make some sense though. Ads have always been historically ignored. We don't talk about more fun 51 as first spectre for example. We just note it as an ad that predates the first app.

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted

wow, we really are comic nerds, i make a reference to over-wide shlongs and an**al blitzkrieg and nobody pauses to tell me i am disgusting or anything, you just keep on arguing about what constitutes a first appearance

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
wow, we really are comic nerds, i make a reference to over-wide shlongs and an**al blitzkrieg and nobody pauses to tell me i am disgusting or anything, you just keep on arguing about what constitutes a first appearance

 

I enjoyed your joke. Didn't think it needed a response (shrug) Based on the joke I'm guessing your wife isn't letting you stick it in the backdoor of the hatchback whatever the girth :insane: so just let it pass (shrug)

 

But yes, your joke was funny :foryou:

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

"Not correct. The appearance has to be in sequential art (that is, TELLS A STORY), that is not intended to be "officially printed" in another publication."

 

I appreciate your excellent response format and always have but that is where my appreciation ends. The bulk of your response centers around your point above. The problem is, you just made this fact up. I can find no definition of first appearance that says the appearance has to tell a story sequentially that isn't intended to be officially printed.

 

That's not what I said.

 

I said "The appearance has to be in sequential art (that is, TELLS A STORY), that is not intended to be "officially printed" in another publication. "

 

It looks like you stopped at "officially printed" and didn't read the following three words, which radically changes the meaning of what I said.

 

And no, I did not just "make this fact up." (Don't read that as "snarky"; it's not.) This has been established comics history going back decades. No one has ever considered non-story appearances (that is, ADS) to be "first appearances". or Action Comics #12 and the others would be worth more than Detective Comics #27.

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted

OK, here's something out of a deposition I actually took. Enjoy:

 

Q: It was your salami? And how big was the salami? Was it a big salami, a little salami?

A. It was big.

Q. Was it a hard salami or -- you know, like do you understand? Was it a hard one or a soft one?

A: It's just normal. It's not a hard one or a soft one.

Q: Okay. In the middle, not like a pepperoni that's really hard?

A. No. It's just normal.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

"Not correct. The appearance has to be in sequential art (that is, TELLS A STORY), that is not intended to be "officially printed" in another publication."

 

I appreciate your excellent response format and always have but that is where my appreciation ends. The bulk of your response centers around your point above. The problem is, you just made this fact up. I can find no definition of first appearance that says the appearance has to tell a story sequentially that isn't intended to be officially printed.

 

That's not what I said.

 

I said "The appearance has to be in sequential art (that is, TELLS A STORY), that is not intended to be "officially printed" in another publication. "

 

It looks like you stopped at "officially printed" and didn't read the following three words, which radically changes the meaning of what I said.

 

And no, I did not just "make this fact up." (Don't read that as "snarky"; it's not.) This has been established comics history going back decades. No one has ever considered non-story appearances (that is, ADS) to be "first appearances". or Action Comics #12 and the others would be worth more than Detective Comics #27.

 

Put it this way....

 

If the first page of Detective Comics #27 had been printed as a preview ad on the last page of Action Comics #11...would that be Batman's "first appearance"?

 

By your definition, yes. However...if such an ad existed, it would have only been a preview. The actual page would have been intended for Detective Comics #27, the OFFICIAL publication of that page.

 

Just like Walking Dead #1 and Capes #1.

 

However....if Action Comics #11 contained a Batman story...even just a page....of sequential art that wasn't then subsequently published elsewhere (outside of reprints), then THAT would have been the first appearance of Batman, rightfully so, and recognized by the hobby for decades.

 

Gotta be in an original story, told sequentially. That's how first appearances work, whether that original story is in a comic, a newsletter, a phone book, or a roll of toilet paper.

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